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Need help from an Electro magnetic spectrum buff.

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posted on Dec, 27 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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Hello, I need help from someone who has a deep knowlege of radio waves.

The premice...

I take a regular square room and coat it in a reflective cover. All the walls, the floor and the ceiling.

I then send constant radio waves in to the room which reflect off the walls and create a matrix of electro magnetic energy. In the form of radio waves.

Now lets say someone walks in to that room and interupts the field thats been created.

Question.

1. Would it be possible to measure the effect on the field and how?

2. If the effect on the field can be measured could it be converted in to a picture?

3. Would the build up change the radio waves in to something else if allowed to build up?

4. Would doing this be dangerouse in any way?

Purely theoretical, im not about to try it but im interested in whether its possible or not. Please dont even answer if its just going to be a guess. Need hard scientific facts here.




posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:31 AM
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Measurement will be quite difficult because when you measure field you need space filled by sensing elements - denser = better measurement. Person will for sure do something with EM field - man is mainly water and also produce own EM field which will somehow interact with artificial field in room.
Theory of EM field is quite complex and even for trained person it is not easy to predict how will disperse emission of EM radiation - it is not simply optics, there are many more factors at play.
I'm pretty sure that there exist some software modelers for EM fields but I do not know any. I'm not expert ...

EDIT to add: I forgot to say that every measurement of EM field interact with this field ... it is complex.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by zeddissad]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by Algebra


1. yes, using something like a rf probe and CRO

2. Probably not

3. no, a person would just absorb some, not change them

4. depends on the power and frequency of the emf field

[edit on 28/12/09 by dereks]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Thanks for your reply's pretty much confirmed what i suspected. Its possible but would be very difficult to control.

Cheers for having stab any way




posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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There's a simple film you buy that displays a magnetic field. It's really cheap, looks like a regular film slide.

www.wondermagnet.com...

[edit on 28-12-2009 by sstark]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by sstark
There's a simple film you buy that displays a magnetic field. It's really cheap, looks like a regular film slide.


Any idea what its called?

Let me fill you in a bit on why i want to know if this could work.

In the paranormal field (ghosthunting specificly) People use E.M.F meters to measure the effects of electro magnetism on the instrument.

I kind of reversed it and thought about creating a constant electro magnetic field in the form of radio waves. Then measuring the effect some other energy might have on that.

I know this has been tryed on the light end of the spectrum ie. infra red.
So wondered if it would be possible.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Check into electrostatics and nathan stubblefield

source- go down to motors at the bottom

Expert from external source

"The device found in Nathan's cabin after he passed away is of singular mystery. One person actually thought that Nathan built it just because it "looked really strange" ... like some science art form made to baffle the unwary. It sat upon a trunk off to the side of his cabin room. Bernard Stubblefield, his son, did not recognize the device. Nathan must have built it after Bernard was taken away with his mother. Too young to independently pursue his father's developments, Bernard did not remember seeing the device before. It was taken to a local museum, where it now resides unheralded.

This device is a square arrangement, having several insulator-mounted pith balls in each quadrant of the central square table. It is quite likely that this was the means by which Nathan detected movements and positions in his field. If this analysis proves true, then it represents a major leap in his earth power technology.

I have surmised that this device is the Stubblefield long-range detector. Motions in a specific pithball pendulum gave the direction and position of the intruder. Such a device relies on phenomena, which are unknown in conventional electric science"

good stuff - on a side note this guy holds a few patents and there very interesting

[edit on 28-12-2009 by Localjoe3]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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Wow thanks Localjoe.

I did'nt read all of it right away but from what i saw theres some real interesting inventions i need to look in to. "Geomancer" i've never even heard of this before. Fantastic stuff. His motor idea is certainly intreguing but its hard to imagine how it could work from its description.



Now ive got a lot of reaserch to be doing lol.




[edit on 28-12-2009 by Algebra]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Algebra
 


Radiowaves? Why not move the wavelength down just a little bit to the visible spectrum, just to make it easier for us to comprehend?

Regular room, reflective cover (mirrors ok?), white light. Make someone walk in there, take a picture with a regular camera, and voila, you just captured a picture thanks to radio waves.

Could you use sensors to *know* when someone enters the room? Sure, just add sensors that are sensitive to certain wavelengths, when the person walks into the room, he will absorb a lot of the waves, and will reflect another set. The sensors would then react to those reflected waves, and if you had enough of them, you could even triangulate that person's position.

Could a person walk stealthy inside that room? Sure, just cover that person with the same reflective material.

Would the waves build up? Eventually, all light will be absorbed, or will escape the room. There is no ideal reflector. Add more light perhaps? No, adding more light will only increase the rate at which the photons are absorved.

Now lets start moving into lower frequencies, slowly towards radio waves. First stop, infrared. Same effects as visible light, different sensors are needed. Next stop microwave. Same effects, different filters, but you might want to reconsider walking into that room. Finally radiowaves. Same concepts, probably not harmful, but a human would probably act as a reflector as well, making it more difficult for any sensors.

[edit on 28-12-2009 by daniel_g]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:25 PM
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As far as i know its never been attempted with Radio or micro waves. Thats what makes it so difficult to imagine and such an interesting prospect.

Still a long way to go, but as long as i wont kill myself trying it. I'll do some experiments.

Thanks for your help.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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Well, if you're looking for a way to electromagnetically image ghosts or otherwise invisible entities, good luck.

As far as I know, there is nothing particularly "electromagnetic" about ghosts, except that the human brain images the apparitions — this does not mean that ghosts will trigger your electromagnetic/radio imaging equipment.

No, the "ghost sensing" technology that you see on the various ghost hunter programs is not designed for sensing ghosts — That's all bogus, just a meaningless misuse of technology for show.

They may as well be using an electronic rectal thermometer or a player piano to sense any ghostly presences.

I'm inclined to think that ghostly apparitions occur on a very subtle quantum level, which the human brain may or may not be able to perceive. That is to say, ghostly apparitions probably occur at some level in the human mind, but not in a measurable way in the physical world.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by Algebra
 


You would be waisting your time to cover the room's wall's, ceiling and floor with a Faraday Cage of metal in trying to keep the signals inside the room, there still would be leakage and interference. A constant stream of radio waves already permeates most rooms, why not use those waves.

Old junky AM radios will detect movement in a room, just as old junky black and white TVs with rabbit ear antennae used to. Just find the right spot on or off of a channel and you have an excellent detector for certain spots that you want to watch for movement, like through a doorway. The old TV will give you a visual response as well as an audio response.



[edit on 28-12-2009 by RussianScientists]



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by RussianScientists
A constant stream of radio waves already permeates most rooms, why not use those waves.

Yeah, and not only radio waves, but infrared radiation, microwave radiation, cosmic rays, and probably as-yet-unmeasurable other beasties that zip right through matter like it wasn't there.

I think there's plenty of background noise against which to monitor interference, just take your pick of monitoring devices and start watching for wobbles and spikes in the background noise.

This still doesn't mean you're going to see any interdimensional entities or ghosts.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by RussianScientists
reply to post by Algebra
 


You would be waisting your time to cover the room's wall's, ceiling and floor with a Faraday Cage of metal in trying to keep the signals inside the room, there still would be leakage and interference. A constant stream of radio waves already permeates most rooms, why not use those waves.

Old junky AM radios will detect movement in a room, just as old junky black and white TVs with rabbit ear antennae used to. Just find the right spot on or off of a channel and you have an excellent detector for certain spots that you want to watch for movement, like through a doorway. The old TV will give you a visual response as well as an audio response.



[edit on 28-12-2009 by RussianScientists]


Yeah i can remeber that my T.V when i was younger used to react when you came in to the room. Its not exactly the kind of detection im talking about though. I would want to build up a 3D image of what has entered the room. Not just detect its presence. Thats what makes it hard to get my head around. I'll look in to the faraday cage though might give me some insight.

Thanks.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Well, if you're looking for a way to electromagnetically image ghosts or otherwise invisible entities, good luck.

As far as I know, there is nothing particularly "electromagnetic" about ghosts, except that the human brain images the apparitions — this does not mean that ghosts will trigger your electromagnetic/radio imaging equipment.

No, the "ghost sensing" technology that you see on the various ghost hunter programs is not designed for sensing ghosts — That's all bogus, just a meaningless misuse of technology for show.

They may as well be using an electronic rectal thermometer or a player piano to sense any ghostly presences.

I'm inclined to think that ghostly apparitions occur on a very subtle quantum level, which the human brain may or may not be able to perceive. That is to say, ghostly apparitions probably occur at some level in the human mind, but not in a measurable way in the physical world.

— Doc Velocity


I agree with you completely, Thats why im exploring different possibilitys from waving an E.M.F or thermometer about and saying it could be a ghost. I hate all those shows.

Obviousely these methods dont work or they would have produced something by now. Im more interested in whether, by exciting the atmosphere some how. Electro magnetism bieng just one possibility. You could measure any effects in that atmosphere, from an alien energy.

I believe the key lies in subtle Quantum energys to. Proving it is not going to be easy though.

Thanks for your post.



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Algebra
1. Would it be possible to measure the effect on the field and how?
There is a device called a gaussmeter (or magnetometer) that will measure the strength of a magnetic field. Electric fields can also be measured with similar devices. I don't think they have any special name, just look up electric field measurement on google and you get a bunch of links.

2. If the effect on the field can be measured could it be converted in to a picture?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but you could plot a graph of it if you took enough readings and wanted to put the effort into doing it. That would make a sort of picture, but I don't think that's quite what you meant.

3. Would the build up change the radio waves in to something else if allowed to build up?
No

4. Would doing this be dangerouse in any way?
Not unless the fields were REALLY strong, much stronger than you'd be able to create at home. For instance, MRIs have massive magnetic fields on the order of a few Tesla, and loose metallic items might be attracted to it from meters away, and fly through the air and hit someone.

There is a famous picture of Nikola Tesla sitting on a chair, calmly reading a book, while surrounded by bolts of artificial lightning. He manages just fine :p www.pef.uni-lj.si...




posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
There is a famous picture of Nikola Tesla sitting on a chair, calmly reading a book, while surrounded by bolts of artificial lightning. He manages just fine :p

That photo was "staged" by Tesla for publicity purposes, it's a double-exposure. Tesla first posed for the shot without the coil being energized; he then evacuated the area and charged up the coil, which emitted a number of lightning strokes for the second time-lapse exposure.

In other words, a hoax photo by the Master himself.

Even Tesla wasn't daring enough to approach a Tesla Coil at full charge.



— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Interestingly, Tesla was convinced by his research of some pretty far out physical and super-physical possibilities — such as instantaneous communication over infinite distances.

Of course, he had no way of testing his theory over interplanetary or interstellar distances, but that is precisely what he suggested... communicating to other planets instantaneously.

In fact, Tesla reported that he believed he had received intelligent (i.e. extraterrestrial) radio signals — this was at a time when there was virtually no other manmade radio equipment on Earth except that which existed in Tesla's lab at Colorado Springs. So who was transmitting recognizable signals for Tesla to receive?

I mean, this guy was no absent-minded inventor, he was no nutty professor.

Tesla invented alternating-current technology — the technology that powers virtually everything today — as well as the earliest X-ray technology, the first radio transmitters/receiver technology, the first radio remote-control technology, the first radio-jamming technology, the first fluorescent lighting, and even the earliest electronic computer logic gateway technology. Those are just a few of the technologies that Tesla invented from scratch and patented.

What's more, he did all of this in the late 1800s, years and even decades before anyone else could even comprehend his work. So, he wasn't a crackpot, but he was certainly years ahead of his time.

So what did this genius Nikola Tesla mean by instantaneous communication over infinite distance? Was he talking about subspace communication technology??

Tesla was pretty well convinced of a lot of things that we still just barely understand.

Strangely enough, one of Tesla's commercial rivals, a rather narrow-minded and stubborn garage inventor named Thomas Edison, became absolutely enthralled with building a device to talk to the dead, and he worked on it until he died, leaving the project unfinished.

Edison was no genius. He was just a stubborn and relentless experimenter who stumbled upon a few electrical revelations and successfully marketed them. Edison even employed Tesla for a while, but the two didn't get along very well — see, Tesla was a towering genius while Edison was not, and the latter was intensely jealous of the former.

Still, here we have the two most respected pioneers of electrical innovation in the history of Mankind, and they were both pursuing these outlandish technologies — to communicate information beyond the realm of known physics.

So, who's to say it's not possible? Who's to say it's not possible to image entities existing in other dimensions? It just takes persistence, and the hope that technology can catch up with the theory.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Exactly, Einstien got his vision of the theory of relativity in a split second of inspiration. It took him years to actualy prove it. If you just shake your head and say thats not possible your already admitting defeat.

Nothing ventured nothing gained. I dont care whether anybody else thinks its possible or not. Im still gonna give it a try.

Well said Doc velocity.

I'll take a long look at Tesla and Edisons patents too. Great story about Tesla by the way i never knew all this.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Oops, sorry everyone. I thought that was a genuine photo.



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