India: Ancient Superpower - Part 2

reply to post by luciddream


Yes, the aryan invasion theory has no base at all....many proves had already come against it ... Even the gene test at Ahemdabad showed that north and south indians had same ancestry .. and all were native indians , but in so long history, we may have divided .. but it is truth that caste system, the worst thing ever has been introduced in society from simple job system and there may have been later ancient disputes between different races which was actually baseless and against our ancient culture whereas in earliest ancient India all north and south Indians lived together culturally and in In earliest ancient india, 2 types of people were seen i.e. dharmi and adharmi,,, dharmi are those who seek for knowledge (gyan) ,, does their duty (karma) and have devotion towards god (Bhakti) ........ whereas bad person involving in destructive activities are known as adharmi. ... and aryan is something different word, never to interpreted with north indians or any race .. as dravidians have equally contributed to arya culture and also in Vedas and vedanta,,
.,, Aryan invasion theory is just a deliberately made theory.. north indians and south indians have been divided in India as per slow evolution and later may be due to baseless disputes... please never use this false theory to divide Indian population,, they may be different race but evolved in India from the same race and I strictly want not to see and have prejudice on the basis of race but on the basis of activities like good or bad.. as a race can't be said as good or bad as it contains varieties in them but point those particulars who destroy the society regardless of their race..

reply to post by Indigo_Child


You know I find this thread absolutely fascinating. It may not be worth much but I'm into martial arts. Lately I've been studying Malaysian martial arts called Silat. I used to study a great deal of Kung fu before. Southern and northern variants. I noticed that although similar the two arts were very different in theory and application. Which got me wondering. So I asked what the relationship is between the cultural. Martial arts of south Asia and china.

To my surprise the malaysian gurus for their martial art all mostly say that their art and a large part of their culture comes from India and that the Chinese influence was a modern one.

So to get to my point I feel that you are on to something with trying to prove that India was a much larger ancient superpower than modern historians give credit to. He k if even villagers I. Malaysia seem to coincide with your theory.

reply to post by pritishxsinha


Thank you for your informative reply.

double post

sorry

book marking for a read later
thanks

This was an immensely interesting post. As someone who is currently writing their thesis, I can appreciate the amount of research that went into the OP's original argument and rebuttals. I've read about more than half the thread, and I hope to finish through it soon. I'm currently reading a translation of the Upanishads and hopefully I'll get around to reading the four Vedas, so I'll be sure to keep all this information in mind.

S^F

Though, I stopped reading (replies) where Buddhism's suggested as being forced upon people by a powerful empire, and reference to Buddhism "finding its way" to Thailand (not understanding how Siam itself was conceived, offshoot & mirror of flexible hindu-buddhist Angkor history)

Christianity and Islam are no short of Crusades. What of a Buddhist "crusade" or Buddhist EMPIRE that spread the faith? Name? Not some compassionate son of a king sharing his enlightenment and empire leadership but an actual empire that forced conversions by the sword, like Christianity and Islam did, in the name of their propietary "God".

Luckily, Buddhism has no crusade, no empire, nor false God or fake quotes "God said XYZ" etc. Have we forgotten Buddhism was conceived by an Indian Prince who renounced the thrown/empire in preference for a humble, spiritual, simple life??

Buddhism's an obvious progression for enlightened individuals escaping the abuse of power and a personified "God" that Christianity, Islam and even Hinduism enable/purport.

I think you undervalue the significance of Buddhism being "embraced" as you put it by China and then becoming the dominant religion of China and of South East Asia. It suggests Indian cultural domination. If China and South East India had a strong culture, then Buddhism would not have been embraced so strongly. China and South East Asian countries did in fact have their own culture and religions. China had Taoism. The fact this was supplanted by a foreign culture does not suggest an "embrace" but a domination by a stronger power.

Christianity did not spread through "embrace" It spead through domination by the Roman empire. Islam did not spread through "embrace" it spread through domination by the Islamic empire. Religions that did not have the support of an empire hardly spread beyond their locality: Sikhism, Paganism, Shintoism, Native American religion are good examples of this. Thus I have to strongly doubt that Buddhism's rapid spread through China and South East Asia was any diferent. It too must have had the support of a powerful empire. And I would be right:

•3rd century BCE: Buddhism is brought into Sri Lanka by Mahendra, son of the Mauryan Emperor Ashoka; it might have found its way into Thailand about the same time

edit on 8-1-2013 by minnow because: (no reason given)

I just stumbled upon this article and thought it might be of interest to the original poster. Most of the info will be quoted:

The Role of India

In most examinations of lost civilizations, there has been a surprising tendency to leave India out of the picture. While the wonders of Egypt or Sumeria are often discussed, the equally great wonders of ancient India are seldom mentioned. This is strange because India is the main country that has preserved our ancient human heritage, both materially and spiritually. For example, in India today one can observe the same type of temple worship still being practiced like that which once occurred in ancient Egypt, Babylonia, Greece or Mexico, along with the same emphasis on the spiritual and the sacred as the focus of life.

India has extensive archaeological remains that are among the largest and oldest in the world. Harappan India or India of the so-called ’Indus Valley Civilization’ was the largest urban civilization in the world of its times in the third millennium BC (3100-1900 BCE), with major sites extending from the Ganges river in the east to Afghanistan in the west, from the border of Iran to near Bombay. However, India’s role in ancient civilization has been largely ignored in favor of more culturally comfortable, though geographically much smaller cultures in the Near East, in spite of the fact that such ancient cultures frequently lauded the greatness of India themselves. How many of us know that the civilizations of Egypt and Mesopotamia would fit easily into Harappan India with much room to spare, so much larger was the Indian civilization. There has been an even greater ignoring of the Vedic literature of India, which is by far the largest that has been preserved from the ancient world.

The many thousands of pages of this mantric literature dwarf all that the rest of the world has managed to save from such early eras. Yet instead of putting Vedic literature on par with the Pyramids of Egypt in terms of civilizational achievements, scholars reduce the Vedas to the rantings of illiterate nomads from Central Asia, who by all accounts should have left no literature anyway. The spiritual wisdom of the Vedic mantras is ignored according to a view that the Vedas are only a nature poetry of barbarian invaders. This is in spite of the fact that the Vedas were the foundation for the great yogic and mystical traditions of Asia through Hindu and Buddhist traditions and the whole science of Yoga, which frequently refer to them.

Not only has Vedic literature been ignored, there has been an additional effort to keep the Vedic literature separate from the great archaeological remains in the country of the various Harappan sites. We are told that the great urban civilization of ancient India and the great Vedic literature that India preserved as its ancient heritage are not connected to each other at all. We are left with ’a civilization without a literature’ and a ’literature without a civilization’, though both a great literature and a great civilization came from ancient India and often use the same symbols.

This is in evidence in the many Vedic images found in Harappan sites and on Harappan seals like the Brahma bull, figures in yoga postures, Shiva-like Gods, fire altars and swastikas. Here the new geology and marine archaeology has ruled in favor of the ancients. Vedic literature describes its homeland on a long lost river called the Sarasvati, which according to Vedic descriptions flowed east of the Indus from the Himalayas to the Arabian Sea. Modern satellite photography has clearly indicated the existence of this great river, as have numerous geological and ground water studies conducted over the last few decades, which show that the Sarasvati was once over ten kilometers in width and flowed from the mountains to the sea, dwarfing the nearby Indus. As the Vedas say, the Sarasvati was the largest river of the region at the time. It was the center of a great civilization and the vast majority of ancient Indian and Harappan ruins have been found on the now dried banks of the Sarasvati. As the Sarasvati River dried up around 1900 BCE, the Vedic civilization which describes the river as its immemorial homeland must be much older.

I'm not sure to what extent how accurate the article is with respect to saying the Vedas are largely undermined by the world, but this article gave me some pause. I do believe there are some compelling points in it.

Also, has anyone heard any updates on the ruins found in Gulf of Cambay in India? They're saying it dates "supposedly" back 9,500 years.

Originally posted by insightout
Also, has anyone heard any updates on the ruins found in Gulf of Cambay in India? They're saying it dates "supposedly" back 9,500 years.

Yeah.

It's not there. It's a fabrication.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Any credible source for this info, by any chance? Wish I could take your statement at face value, but you never know, ya know?

Good stuff.

I would love a more detailed review of the religious movements taking place during this time such as regional deities rising, falling, and spreading to other areas.

Selfish I know, maybe there are other threads that go into this but I cannot currently use any search functions on the system I am using do to security installed by its owner. Honestly no idea why it would disable the search function.

Originally posted by insightout
reply to post by Harte

 

Any credible source for this info, by any chance? Wish I could take your statement at face value, but you never know, ya know?

You sayin' I'm incredible?

"Pottery" claimed to have been dredged up there is actually the remains of tubeworm holes: One of my posts about this.

It's hard to find anything here at ATS.

The fact is, there's never been any evidence for any structures in the Gulf of Cambay (Khambat.)

Harte

LOL, Biggest Joke, I have ever came across.

Basically modern society started when people settled in large numbers. The accumulation of knowledge that follows sky rocketed.

because humans were already as smart as today, they only needed to preserve knowledge and implement it.
Any large society would bring the same problems we see today, so you can assume that people created very similar solutions.

There really is evidence for blue eyed blond people though... Yet they were not the same as the blue eyed blond folks we got in Europe.
Evidence of their existence is found in Moroccan Berber people where blue eyed blonds proved to be from another genetic origin then the Arabic dominating today.

An ancient people that survived a cataclysmic event, that scattered them throughout the world.
Ancient myth suggest a few of their people ended up in the southern Himalayas.

A possible origin of the Aryan myth the Nazis believed in.

At best though their existence can only be speculative without the evidence to support it.

Indigo_Child I have read part 1 and currently i am reading part 2. I created an account because i simply must thank you for presenting your research for everyone. I absolutely admire you courage to want to rewrite the history. But lets face it. Indophobia was deliberate and targeted and has been running a muck for over 2 centuries. I wonder to myself, at times like these is it even worth the effort. As a hindu i must say i am proud of my ancestors for what they have given the world, arts, science, spirituality, wisdom and various theologies.

Also here is something i found awhile ago. I dont know if this will help your research in anyway. I feel that i must contribute to this work

youtube

reply to post by f0xbat


FOxbat's video, which shows that people in Cameroon speak Tamil: