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Proof Positive that the Bible isn't a History Book: The Myth of Noah's Ark

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posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Why do people put so much emphasis/focus on the past, instead of the "Now?"

[edit on 30-12-2009 by GrandKitaro777]




posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Groupies--

Most of you on this threadlet should be aware (by now, hopefully !) that in the unpointed paleo-Hebrew scriptures (such as have come down to us in various forms) there are TWO distinct Noach Ark Sources (contradictory in several ways, e.g. the length of days of the floodwaters & the numbers of pairs ritually clean v. number of pairs of unclean animals taken ‘on board’ the thingy) one source uses ELOHIM for the divine name the other uses YHWH for the divine name,much like the 2 contradictory Creation Myths of the post-exilic Jews found in Gen 1:1 to Gen 2:4a and Gen 2:4b to 4:26)

Both written sources having been clumsily (but politically-necessarily to appease different religious cult centers after the Exile) woven together by rhe so-called Ezra’s School (c. BCE 420) to form a (ahem) ‘single’ narrative – which however does not ‘hold logical water’ upon close inspection.

The PRIESTLY (P) Source has a strange accent reminiscent of the Scroll of the Prophet Hezekiel (c. 550 BCE dialect) and the YHWH source (J) has a more jejune Jerusalemite paleo-Hebrew dialect from around 722 BCE—but each ‘strand’ (if you take the time to actually READ it in Hebrew) has a different ‘flood myth’ to tell about Noach (‘rest’), all originally written unpointed (i.e. without vowels)

Here are some samples of the interweaving in Gen chapter 6-7 in English, the Hezekielite 'Babylonian accent' P-Strand in ALL CAPS and the J-Southern Strand in smaller letters, using the proto MT consonantal text since that is the version most of those on these threadlets are more familiar with: I will dispense with the differences between the proto-MT and the earlier unpointed Hebrew Vorlag (underlay) to the Greek LXX Septuginta & the Samaritan Pentateuch & all those pesky Dead Sea Scroll versioins which don’t match each other consonant for consonant.

Gen 6:13ff “ELOHIM SAID TO NOACH: THE END OF ALL FLESH HAS COME BEFORE MY FACE(S), THEREFORE BUILD AN ARK OF GOPHER WOOD WITH ROOMS & SEAL IT WITH PITCH INSIDE & OUT, 300 CUBITS LONG YOU WILL MAKE IT, 50 CUBITS WIDE & 30 CUBITS HIGH, WITH A WINDOW A CUBIT FROM THE TOP &A DOOR IN ITS SIDE WITH THREE FLOORS: FOR SOON I WILL BRING A FLOOD UPON THE LAND & WILL GENOCIDE ALL FLESH THAT HAS BREATH OF LIFE IN IT FROM UNDER HEAVEN: EVERYTHING ON THE SURFACE WILL BE EXTERMINATED.

BUT I WILL CUT A COVENANT WITH YOU WHEN YOU ENTER THE ARK & YOUR SONS & THEIR WIVES & FROM ALL LIVING THINGS YOU WILL BRING INTO THE ARK TO KEEP THEM ALIVE WITH YOU ‘A SINGLE PAIR MALE & FEMALE’ OF BIRDS ACCORDING TO THEIR KINDS, LANDCREEPERS ACCORDING TO THEIR KINDS, 2 OF EACH, SO TAKE WITH YOU ENOUGH FOOD TO SUSTAIN YOU & THEM. SO NOACH DID EVERYTHING ACCORDING TO ALL THAT ELOHIM COMMANDED HIM.

And yhwh said to Noach, Come into the ark for I have seen you as a righteous man before my face(s) in this generation: of all ritually-clean beasts,take 7 pairs the man & his woman, & of all beasts which are not ritually-clean, a single pair a man & his woman, of birds, of heaven, 7 pairs male & female to keep alive their seed upon the faces of the earth. For in 7 days from now I shall rain upon the land 40 days & 40 nights and shall exterminate all the substance I have formed upon the face of the ground. & Noach did all according to what YHWH commanded him.

AND NOACH WAS 600 YEARS OLD WHEN THE FLOOD WAS UPON THE EARTH.

And Noach & his sons & his wife & their wives came into the ark with him from before the faces of the floodwaters.

OF CLEAN ANIMALS & OF UNCLEAN BEASTS & BIRDS & CREEPERS ON THE EARTH CAME 2 OF EACH INTO THE ARK MALE & FEMALE AS ELOHIM COMMANDED NOACH. & 7 days later the floodwaters hit the earth. IN THE 600TH YEAR OF NOACH’S LIFE IN THE 2ND MONTH ON THE 17TH DAY OF THE MONTH ALL THE FOUNTS OF THE GREAT TEHOM WERE DISSOLVED & THE WINDOWS OF THE SKY OPENED UP.

And there was upon the face(s) of the ground rain for 40 days and 40 nights.

ON THIS SAME DAY NOACH, SHEM, HAM & JAPHETH ALL SONS OF NOACH & THEIR 3 WIVES ENTERED INTO THE ARK& ALL LIVING THINGS EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR KINDS & CREEPING THINGS ACCORDING TO THEIR KINDS, & BIRDS ACCORDING TO THEIR KINDS &EVERY WINGED BIRD TOO &THEY CAME TO NOACH IN THE ARK TWO OF EACH OF ALL FLESH IN WHICH THERE WAS THE BREATH OF LIFE, SOME OF ALL FLESH MALE & FEMALE OF EACH CAME, JUST AS ELOHIM HAD COMMANDED [HIM].

& yhwh shut him in. And the floodwaters were upon the earth for 40 days & 40 nights & the waters multiplied & raised up the ark so that it was lifted off the ground

AND THE WATERS GREW STRONG & MULTIPLIED GREATLY UPON THE EARTH AND THE ARK SWAM UPON THE SURFACE OF THE WATERS.

And the waters grew very strong upon the earth & they covered all the high mountains that are under heaven

AND FIFTEEN CUBITS UPWARDS DID THE WATERS GROW STRONG SO THAT THEY COVERED THE MOUNTAIN TOPS & ALL FLESH & ALL EARTHCREEPERS & ALL BIRDS & ALL SWARMING THINGS & ALL HUMANS DIED.

And everything that had the breath of life breathed into their nostrils and everything on the dry land died & yhwh genocided all the substance upon the face(s) of the land from humans to beasts to creepers to birds of heaven were exterminated from the earth so that only noach and those with him in the ark were left alive.

AND THE WATERS GREW STRONG UPON THE EARTH FOR 150 DAYS: THEN ELOHIM REMEMBERED NOACH & ALL THE LIVING BEASTS WITH HIM IN THE ARK & ELOHIM PASSED A WIND UPON THE FACE(S) OF THE EARTH SO THAT THE WATERS SUBSIDED & THE FOUNTS OF THE TEHOM & WINDOWS OF HEAVEN WERE SHUT

And the rain was restrained from the skies & the waters receded continually from the earth

AND THE WATERS BEGAN TO ABATE AT THE END OF 150 DAYS & THE ARK RESTED ON THE 7TH MONTH ON THE 17TH DAY OF THE MONTH UPON THE MOUNTS OF ARARAT WITH THE WATERS RECEDING UNTIL THE 10TH MONTH ON THE 1ST DAY OF THE MONTH, WHEN THE TOPS OF THE MOUNTAINS APPEARED.” &tc. &tc.

it doesn’t excatly take a rocket-scientist to notice the 2 distinct (both contradictory & repetitious !) sources even when the text is given out in English—so be very careful taking any of these paleo-Hebrew myths ‘literally’ since ‘literally’ you cannot.

There are TWO NOACH stories which don’t match in the Masoretic Text read by Jews and protestants today--and as they say, the Devil is in the Details--which you cannot simply sweep under the carpet !







[edit on 30-12-2009 by Sigismundus]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Sigismundus
 


Great !! just when you thought you knew everything there is to know about the Bible someone comes along and throws a monkey wrench into your thought process and off you go again, scratching your head praying that the ATS Gods will show you wisdom and understanding.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 02:25 PM
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well based on this statement ---"The entire story is pure hogwash! My point here is that if this one story from the 'Word of God' is false, who is to say which parts are true and which parts are not? It is a work of man, thus it is just as flawed as it's authors, MEN!"--- i cant believe anything you wrote either, because i am sure somewhere you made a mistake, and I cannot believe anything you say because of it...pretty closed minded eh.

I have a question...who said the entire earth was covered? and who could have sailed or flown around the earth in 40 days to verify, that the entire earth was covered? I would suspect it was a little more localized and embelished, but has some truth, and probalby a lesson to be learned none the less. I respect the fact you are pointing out the impossability of the flood and the ark...but you dont know, and are guessing, based on your own mistrust for religion. who is to say species havent evoloved some to make more species in the last 6000 years. who is to say not all species perished, because the "whole earth" wasnt actually covered. but if you were stuck in the middle of the area that was covered, you may just believe the whole earth was consumed. also people thought the earth was flat back then...you've proved nothing imo, and this argument is nothing new. the books of the bible were written and interpreted by men...




posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by zazzafrazz

rainfall measurement, I can provide many many more
Ancient Raindrops???

.......the link I provided previously clearly shows raindrops, not mist or dew but rain drops can be measured up to 60 million years ago...the same reading would not come from mist.


You must have mistook my question, but thanks for the link.

I am sorry though, because I am a little confused by both your comments and the report itself.

1st: And I quote you, "not mist or dew but rain drops can be measured up to 60 million years ago".

Rain drops CAN BE? Your language here suggests this is in theory.

Please clarify if this was the intented wording.

2nd: I clearly notice the term Ancient Raindrops, but continuously note precipitation as being the unit of measure.

examples

A; because the effect of a relatively tall range on precipitation and climate is very significant,..(pg2)


B; These clays provide scientists with a geologic record of ancient precipitation, which can then be compared with samples of modern precipitation collected at the same altitude....(pg3)


C; Embedded in the crystalline structure of these soft clays is a continuous record of Eocene precipitation along the western flank of the Sierra Nevada...(pg3)


D; When Mulch compared ancient raindrops in the clays with modern precipitation samples...(pg4)


Now, I do clearly see Ancient Raindrops noted, but unfortunately, it appears that it is not Ancient Raindrops, but the amount of Deuterium found within test samples from varying heights of the mountain.

I understand the presumptions based on the "Knowns" of today, and realize this is the Science model which is utilized in such studies. Find a confirmable ranking/unit of measure, and then evaulate "other" measures against this known.

But again, I did not see anywhere that suggested they

1st: Had Ancient Raindrops from 60 Million Years Ago.
2nd: OR even had results indicating anything from 60 Million Years Ago.

I also have some difficulties when ANCIENT RAINDROP is the term used, when factually, they have NO SUCH THING.

They do have a means to measure the Deuterium, and it appears at a higher rate lower on a Mountain Range, with a rate that becomes reduced as you measure further and further up the Mountain.

Now back to the measuring of precipitation. I found the following within the specific site you offered.

Precipitation

Protein-DNA precipitation / RNA precipitation / ethanol precipitation / precipitated proteins / 7.5 M LiCl Precipitation Solution from Ambion / ProteoExtract Protein Precipitation Kit / bio-precipitation / SDSOUT SDS PRECIPITATION

I offer these, as an example of PRECIPITATION. Now, for the life of me, I can not come to grips with any science facility making research into the amount of Protein - DNA they can make fall out of the sky, and collect and measure. But Obviously there must be some manner inwhich this precipitation occurs.

So There must be various meaning for this word. A quick look a Wiki offers: Precipitation

In meteorology, precipitation (also known as one of the classes of hydrometeors, which are atmospheric water phenomena) is any product of the condensation of atmospheric water vapor that is pulled down by gravity and deposited on the Earth's surface.


So, would you like to review the data you offered? Would you wish to re-examine inorder to verify if your Link offered SPECIFICALLY SAID it RAINED 60 Million years ago, or was the Link suggesting the Measuring of Deuterium was being utilized to measure a date for the "creation" of the Serria Nevada Range.?

And frankly, based on all of these details you offered, and I was able to also supplement, is it not fair to suggest DEW is precipitation, and MAY, since your link offered absolutely no evidence to suggest it wasn't, be the source of the Deuterium. Moisture is Moisture and Elevation will effect it in the same manner all the time.

And to confirm one thing. YES, your Science that you offered is a FACT and YES, it is a valued means inwhich to deterime AGE of Mountain Ranges.


Do you think the world was covered in a pea soup fog that you couldn't move in but was big enough to make the oceans?


Now, you are just being silly. Pea Soup? Your funny my friend.


Ciao

Shane



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by Sigismundus
 


Thank you for the Information you offered in respects to this matter. It is appreciated and hopefully will be beneficial for those wishing to review and learn more about the Flood Subject.

As others have also made clear, the O.P.'s aims are fairly obvious and there was no intention of debate or discussion originally presented when this topic opened.

But many have contributed and offered viable considerations, which in the grand scheme of things, is what we are truely here for. To learn of alternative ideals and concepts and grow for the better in gaining a wider perspective, than when we "registered" as a member.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Angus123
 


That's assuming that you know the circumstances in which the flood occurred....

Assuming that the animals were divinely lead to Noah...the rain somehow defied what we know today as physical limitations...What more is it to toss in a little "it was fresh water" or "it wasnt an atmospheric deluge"....

Assuming that the circumstances in which the flood occurred are a mirror of the physical limitations we observe today...yes...the flood seems to have some boundaries that it cannot cross...however, in the realm of the supernatural...ANYTHING is possible.


A2D


And therein lies the problem with religion. It's proponents want to insist the bible is a literal, factual account of history. But as soon as the logic breaks down they play the "God is magic and can do anything card."



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 03:04 AM
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And of course there's the koalas...
They live ONLY in Australia and eat eucalyptus leave that grow ONLY in Australia.
So to catch the boat they'd have had to pack enough food for the duration of their journey, swim the Indian Ocean, walk clean across Asia and finally get on the ark.

Any fundamentalist want to explain that one without hiding behind the God is magic defense?



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by randyvs
Funny. The proof for the Arc seems to far out wiegh the proof against.
If I were to wonder why that is, I would have to say the reason there is
a simalar story in so many different cultures from all over the Globe.
Not to mention the fact there are so many civilizations the ignorant
archeologists admit" then one day they all just disappeared" how lame and stupid are these people with educations.
There is a story handed down for ages that tells what happened to them,
but "oh that's just a fairytale". My white rosy azz. I don't remember ever seeing it in any book of fairytales. So it isn't. It is our history. Don't
believe it? Then you are a fool.


If every culture around the globe tells a similar story, where did said story come from?
Everyone except Noah and his family was supposed to be dead. So how did this account come to be when everyone who supposedly witnessed it drowned?

I await your gravity defying gymnastics explaining that one, lol



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by Angus123
And therein lies the problem with religion. It's proponents want to insist the bible is a literal, factual account of history. But as soon as the logic breaks down they play the "God is magic and can do anything card."


Your post reminded me of this one from another thread:


Originally posted by SuperFlyingZombies
Christianity:

The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...


Given that, it makes perfect rational sense! [/sarcasm]



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 03:40 AM
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Sorry I couldn't read through all the bickering of the last 4 pages so I may say something that has already been said.

"every culture has a flood story." - can you imagine what a normal flood would seem like to a local primitive culture? If my town floods, I could get on to the internet and see that the rest of the state was still dry. They just had to assume it was the whole world. Can you imagine what a tornado looked like to a plains Native American?

Being a Christian(I am) doesnt require all reason to be discarded. You don't convince anyone spattering on about things that couldn't have physically happened.

The Moral of Noah's Ark Story? Always be prepared to meet your maker, and trust that God will make all things new.


The reason people don't trust the Bible is because literalists keep trying to show "proof" that all this # happened when they are supposed to take it on faith. God put it there for a lesson, and people end up worshiping the lesson and not the teacher.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 06:10 AM
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The reason people don't trust the Bible is because literalists keep trying to show "proof" that all this # happened when they are supposed to take it on faith. God put it there for a lesson, and people end up worshiping the lesson and not the teacher.


Oh, I see what you're saying, hot snow only falls up on Wednesdays, in April..... (see that, I just chose to not take what you said literally, and sounded insane)

I think you are confusing hope and faith. Faith is based on evidence, hope is not. You have faith in your cars brakes working, otherwise you would not drive it. Your faith is based on the fact that they worked the last time you drove it, and nothing has changed since. Whenever you walk in a building, you have faith that it has been built to code, and will not collapse on top of you. I doubt you would enter a building, hoping it doesn't topple on you.

Christians take the Bible literally on faith, because what can be proven, has been proven. The subject at hand, if there was a global flood in history, we would expect to see billions of dead things buried in sedimentary rock layers layed down by water all over the earth. What do we see? Billions of dead things buried in sedimentary rock layers layed down by water all over the earth.

God created everything, therefore He alone sets the rules. He destroyed all but 8 humans, whom He chose (there could have been billions of humans, do the math) The Lesson: We are not in control. Don't be fooled into thinking, "Well there is no way that the majority of the people on earth will be sending themselves to hell, because they don't have their sins forgiven...". He forwarned the earth the first time, and He has forwarned us about the coming 2nd destruction by fire.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by kingofmd


The reason people don't trust the Bible is because literalists keep trying to show "proof" that all this # happened when they are supposed to take it on faith. God put it there for a lesson, and people end up worshiping the lesson and not the teacher.


Oh, I see what you're saying, hot snow only falls up on Wednesdays, in April..... (see that, I just chose to not take what you said literally, and sounded insane)



Yes that does sound insane. Because you took it out of context and made it say whatever would support your argument(like you do with the Bible). It is arguments like this that continually drive me away from going to any kind of church.

Try reading things within their context with considerations of the time it was written. Don't fall into the literal trap of taking tiny snippets of scripture from 10 different places to fit your ideals. Next thing you know you'll be squealing about how God is building you a big mansion and is going to rapture you before you have to go through hard times.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Bilw85

Originally posted by kingofmd


The reason people don't trust the Bible is because literalists keep trying to show "proof" that all this # happened when they are supposed to take it on faith. God put it there for a lesson, and people end up worshiping the lesson and not the teacher.


Oh, I see what you're saying, hot snow only falls up on Wednesdays, in April..... (see that, I just chose to not take what you said literally, and sounded insane)



Yes that does sound insane. Because you took it out of context and made it say whatever would support your argument(like you do with the Bible). It is arguments like this that continually drive me away from going to any kind of church.

Try reading things within their context with considerations of the time it was written. Don't fall into the literal trap of taking tiny snippets of scripture from 10 different places to fit your ideals. Next thing you know you'll be squealing about how God is building you a big mansion and is going to rapture you before you have to go through hard times.


The example I gave is an exagerated one. Reading comprehension seems to be a dying skill these days. The context is what allows us to determine if something is literal, figurative etc. Again, to return to the narrative of NOAH, this is a literal account of what occured, so anyone claiming this is just a story to learn from is not correct.

So, since you seem to be a Bible scholar and all, what did Jesus mean when He said: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me john 14:6

and

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. matt 7:13-15



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by kingofmd
 


I never said I don't believe in Jesus. Ironically, I believe he performed miracles and was raised up after he died for us. And I believe he was God in the form of man. Which I guess is all that matters really. He also had a real talent of telling stories(parables) to get his point acrossed. Did the nature of God change because he turned into flesh?

Everytime I read into the Creation and Moses stories I get just that..stories. Stories with a moral.

Two people can't become many without incest! There isn't enough water to flood the world! I thought God was a God of order?

Now I don't believe in evolution, but I also don't believe in literal creation. I think we were given that story because our minds can't handle the truth until the next life. You can believe it to be real if you want. Just don't be too hung up if any evidence comes up that it never happened.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 





Evidence of a flood, yes... Evidence of an Ark, NO...


I think plenty of evidence has been shown that hasn't been debunked.
Graduated the 10th? Ya made that one. IT wasn't until the third grade I had the sense to know that
with a supreme being you would have some sort of communicado.
I mean by the looks of the universe I'm pretty sure he could send us
his word through what ever means and have it reach us intact.
Only needed third grade for that.
I think the Bible is the living word. Sorry if you don't. I think it lives because it is the truth.
The truth lives forever, but lies die with those who tell them.

angus123


If every culture around the globe tells a similar story, where did said story come from?



I await your gravity defying gymnastics explaining that one, lol


Well I just don't have one because that isn't what I said Einstien.

That's a pretty intelligent way of thinking you have going on there.
I don't think the way of convenience for you about my beliefs so I
probably didn't graduate high school.

pompeous azz you almost hurt my feeling.



[edit on 31-12-2009 by randyvs]



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by GrandKitaro777
 





Why do people put so much emphasis/focus on the past, instead of the "Now?"

Yeah that is a tough one.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 03:29 PM
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People are just too retarded in logic that they don't see the simple beauty of life and the healing miracles that happen within it. How do you even explain a miracle"? There lies the boat on Mt ararat. Some where in turkey. Easily guidable (if a flood broke out) from where ever it was sent off (don't know). anywho. we do know that there was another couple of rivers and are now Gone from that area. Intresting. Maybe it had to do something with the flood. Remember the world was flat back then.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


It's not, actually.

It has origins in Mesopotamia, and so the story probably spread "naturally" to areas under Sumerian influence. Later it was picked up from the Phoenicians and Egyptians by the Greeks.

Most of the worldwide stories are the result of Christian and Muslim missionaries using this story as one of their basic introductions to the religion. It's a pretty entertaining story, so the people being preached to probably kept it as part of their own traditions.

Imagine where the Star Wars story will be found a thousand years from now.



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by oliveoil
The word Christian means an adherent of Christ. Which means you follow Christ. I think your confusing the word Christian with organized religion such as the Catholics.


I don't follow Jesus, I follow the father. So did Jesus, thus I agree with Jesus and understand what he was talking about.

Christianity is the anti-Christ religion. Basically everything about it at it's base is against the things Jesus taught.

Lets go down the list.

1. Religion in the name of Christ? Check.
2. Brought about by someone who comes after Jesus, while Jesus warns that which comes after him has nothing for him(Paul)? Check.
3. That man appeals to the political powers of this world? Check.
4. Marriage of church and state as a result? Check.
5. Imbeded with "Pagan/Mystery Religion"? Check.
6. Proceeds to then go around killing everyone who doesn't convert to their religion? Check.
7. Is not persecuted, but instead does the persecution. Check.
8. Has built it's following throw death and destruction and sin? Check.
9. Won't be happy until it's the 1 world religion? Check.
10. Promotes ignorance and deception? Check.

Sorry, but I will never call myself a Christian. Just because they stole the name and killed anyone who didn't go along with their version, burning and hiding texts, keeping people ignorant and whatever possible to keep their own power doesn't mean they actually represent it.

Those who followed Jesus were called another name. Oh yeah - "Jews".




I agree with you. You've made an excellent and humbling point here.

I fear calling myself a Christian in society because of how so many so-called Christians are. But, I am a Christian. I do believe in Christ and what He did for us and everything the Bible says He is. I do believe in the Father and everything He has done. I -know- these things.

I can't say that I am not a Christian because of its definition. I'm certainly not a Paulian.

badmedia, you've hit the nail on the head. It would be wise for all so-called Christians to recognize your post.

If there were another name for what I am, that I might not be confused with Christians, then man would eventually take that name and taint it as well. There needn't be a name for what I am, but that I am who I am.



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