Proof Positive that the Bible isn't a History Book: The Myth of Noah's Ark

There has been a long standing trend, a conspiracy if you will, for Religious Fundamentalists to attempt to discredit science and put forth the Bible as absolute fact. They treat it as a History book instead of a peice of literature, which is what it really is. This is being seen more and more lately in the U.S., which I find quite frightening! In an attempt to get others to pull the wool from their eyes, and think for themselves, I will now show that beyond a shadow of a doubt that the story of Noah and his Ark is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE!

1. The size of the Ark itself when compared to it's cargo: According to the Bible, "The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits." The Egyptian cubit, which Genesis' author Moses would have been familiar with, is just over 20 inches (source). Using this, the Ark would have measured a little over 500 feet long, 84 feet wide and 50 feet tall. This is smaller than your average Cruise ship. Since there are no new species here on Earth since the flood (according to the Fundies, not me), it would have had to house over 9,134 mammals, not including humans or seagoing mammals such as whales and dolphins (source), over 16,450 reptiles (source), over 13,196 amphibians (source), over 20,000 birds (source), and over 1,800,000 insects (source) if he marched them in two by two as told by the Bible. Do I even need to mention the amount of food needed to feed so many for a 40 day 'cruise'???

2. The amount of rain needed to flood the Earth in only 40 days and 40 nights: Since the Bible states that "the Mountains were covered", it is safe to assume that the water rose at least 5,000 feet. In order to do this in 40 full 24 hour periods, it would have to rain 5.2 feet an hour! That's over an inch per minite, every minute for every hour for 40 full days... And since the Ark didn't have a bilge pump... Now this is based on 5,000 feet of flooding, but if we take the Bible absolutely literally, then the water covered all of the mountains, including Everest at 29,029 feet which would be over 30 feet of rain an hour! Yeah, not even close to possible!

3. The lack of genetic diversity in all species: Since with the exception of humans, waterborne mammals and fish, only two of each species survived, the lack of genetic diversity would have spelled the doom for every species on the Ark, yet the world is full of life today. There's a good reason you are not allowed to procreate with your sibling(s), and it's not just a moral reason! This applies to all species, not just humans.

4. The diversity of ecosystems around the Earth: Marsupials are only found on Australia, Penguins are only found in Antartica, Polar bears are only found in the Artic Circle, all places that Noah never even heard of, so how did he collect these species and then put them back in their respective environments?

The answer is simple, he didn't. The entire story is pure hogwash! My point here is that if this one story from the 'Word of God' is false, who is to say which parts are true and which parts are not? It is a work of man, thus it is just as flawed as it's authors, MEN!

Maybe it's time to pull your heads out of some ancient text and take a good look at the world and the universe around you! It's full of wonders that that ancient text didn't even have a clue about! Welcome to the 21st Century!

[edit on 27-12-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

LOL! Your a brave poppet.

The bible can be used as a historical document, but not as historical record.

Archaeologists have used it like a 'map' for some places or events to be researched.

That said, Noahs Ark is but one of many fanciful campfire stories, why limit to just one

You should probably ask a Jewish person what the meaning behind Noah's Arc is. Or well, pretty much anyone who carries ancient beliefs.

Because it's a world wide story. From the Americas, to the Middle East, to Asia etc.

en.wikipedia.org...




[edit on 12/27/2009 by badmedia]

You must believe the word, no matter how ridiculous the claim maybe. Extraordinary claims do not require extraordinary evidence at all. If the bible said that there was a flying cupcake monster pirating DVD's back in biblical times, do not question the claim, simply embrace it.

Originally posted by GrandKitaro777
You must believe the word, no matter how ridiculous the claim maybe. Extraordinary claims do not require extraordinary evidence at all. If the bible said that there was a flying cupcake monster pirating DVD's back in biblical times, do not question the claim, simply embrace it.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it has another meaning to it, other than to be "literal"?

I mean it's not like we ever see stories that aren't "literally real", but still have deep meaning for us otherwise. That never happens. Surely the Matrix movie was trying to suggest that the machines and Neo were 100% literal and there was no useful meaning to it otherwise.

Obviously the book Moby-Dick was just about some crazy captain and a white whale.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by GrandKitaro777
You must believe the word, no matter how ridiculous the claim maybe. Extraordinary claims do not require extraordinary evidence at all. If the bible said that there was a flying cupcake monster pirating DVD's back in biblical times, do not question the claim, simply embrace it.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it has another meaning to it, other than to be "literal"?

I mean it's not like we ever see stories that aren't "literally real", but still have deep meaning for us otherwise. That never happens. Surely the Matrix movie was trying to suggest that the machines and Neo were 100% literal and there was no useful meaning to it otherwise.

Obviously the book Moby-Dick was just about some crazy captain and a white whale.

That's the problem of humanities condition today. People would claim the bible has a hidden meaning and then other people live a distracted life of searching for a hidden meaning because someone asserted a claim of "double-meaning," which could be false. It strikes me that the Matrixs and Moby dicks meaning was found less then a ten year span, whilst the bible hidden meaning had over thousands of years to emerge.

Seems to be some people that feel the ark is real and even that they've found it.
www.squidoo.com...

And here's the location they think it is at: Google Earth Link
Funny part is the building just to the north and slightly west is named "Noah's Ark Museum"

And honestly, some of these pictures are quite convincing that it exists there:
www.panoramio.com...

i am not a religious man and i believe the bible is a story book.
if you are telling a story to a child or someone not very intelligent,
you simplify it do you not ?
think about what would happen today if the earth was under threat of a deluge on the same scale.
the first thing to do would be to collect the d.n.a of as many animals as possible so as to recreate them later . also to set up a seed bank of as many plants and crops as possible.
and apart from the scientists that are needed to operate the project we would save as many young people that possess the knowledge of farming and building . and also to breed and repopulate the planet.
you are limiting your thinking to rain ,and to one ark , and that does not make sense.
there are tales from all over the world of a great deluge , the hopi have a tale of when night lasted for three nights and when the sun did rise it rose in a different direction. mother shipton tells of a time in the future when the sea becomes land and the land becomes sea.

Excelent thread buddy starred and flag.

I was not surprised to see the whole "ohhh it is not literal stroy" rearing it ugly head, funny how when we question the mechanics or sciense of the bible or any religious text it turns out the bits that can be questioned have:

A a hidden meaning only know to god or what ever interpritation thats needed at the time.

B you have to have faith/belief

C Because you dont speak or understand the langauge that it is written in you can never hope to understand the meaning through a translation.

The bible IMO is more like a collection of stories that lost there front page which read "dedicated to"

Noah's Ark isn't on Mount Ararat, it is on the Moon.

That Ararat nonsense - that must have been a mistranslation....

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Well what non-believers don't get is that the miracles that are listed in the Bible are listed there because they are miracles. The problem is first understanding the concept of a miracle.

Miracles are called miracles because they're impossible. The people that wrote the Bible knew full well that the things they were writing down were impossible. There's no way such things could happen. But what they were saying is, somehow this thing which is impossible has somehow happened anyway.

Now did the miracles really happen? Don't know, but what the writers were trying to say when they wrote of miracles is that this thing here that's impossible did actually somehow happen and we don't know how but someone really saw it happen.

Sure maybe it was just a tall tale and it didn't really happen. That's not really my point. I'm not arguing that it did in fact happened, I'm just explaining why your post doesn't really tell us anything new.

By trying to prove that the miracles couldn't happen and therefore prove the Bible wrong is just a completely wrong headed solution because even the Bible itself will tell you that the miracles are impossible. That's why they called them miracles.

If they were actually possible they wouldn't be miracles and would make for a very boring story.

What your argument boils down to, is someone is making the claim that something they knew was impossible happened anyway and so you claim, no it didn't because that's impossible.

Well that doesn't really tell us anything does it? What we want to know is if the impossible actually happened or not, not if it's impossible or not. We already knew it was impossible before we started the conversation. That's why they called it a miracle.

Besides the children's book version where he takes every animal in the world is just a simplified version of the story. The whole tale is he just took the animals off the biblical list of clean animals and the biblical list of unclean animals and probably all he was really taking is whatever animals he would need for farming, food, and sacrifices and things like that once the flood was over and he got off the boat.

Most likely it only would have come to a few hundred animals. Most other animals in the world at the time of the flood actually just died and went extinct for the most part.

But the Bible including Genesis many times will start with a very short summarized version of a story and then retell a more detailed version after that. Most people start criticizing and complaining before they get that far though.

The genetic diversity argument doesn't really tell us anything either, because even if the ark story isn't true and the flood never really happened, we still have scientific evidence of other mass extinctions in our past. For example, what happened to the dinosaurs? Well I don't really know, but the point is we still have genetic diversity all over the planet even though the planet has went through multiple mass extinctions before.

So, to say a flood couldn't have come and wiped everything out because there's genetic diversity in the world is just plain wrong. We've had mass extinctions before that have wiped us out and we also have scientific evidence to prove it and guess what? We still have genetic diversity all over the planet. The flood would have just been another mass extinction event like all the others.

Either way though, whomever wrote it wrote it as a miracle story which means they were making the claim that something impossible had happened even though it should have been impossible.

So, I hope you understand the concept of a miracle now. See, believers in the Bible have known that the ark story was impossible for thousands of years. They knew because the Bible told us so in just the first few pages because the Bible tells us it was a miracle and shouldn't have been possible and shouldn't have happened, but somehow did anyway.

It's nice to see the atheists are catching up with us though and starting to realize these things on their own. Could have gotten a jump start on it if you'd just opened the Bible though.

I can't explain the other stuff, but prior to the flood there was a vapor canopy over the earth hence why the dinosaurs were able to grow so large, and why they couldn't survive after the flood. That accounts for much of the water, It was also the cause of continental drift. As far as different spices being on different continents, that is explaind in the story of the Tower of Babel.

Originally posted by GrandKitaro777
That's the problem of humanities condition today. People would claim the bible has a hidden meaning and then other people live a distracted life of searching for a hidden meaning because someone asserted a claim of "double-meaning," which could be false. It strikes me that the Matrixs and Moby dicks meaning was found less then a ten year span, whilst the bible hidden meaning had over thousands of years to emerge.

Actually, anyone who talked of any extra meaning in the bible was typically killed and shunned in society. Not only killed, but burned in public for everyone to see - to spread fear.

You seem to think that because I speak in favor of the bible that I am a christian. I'm not. I dislike organized religion and so forth. However, I know the bible has deeper understanding and meaning.

If you actually understood the bible, then you would know that organized religion and such that you see is not what it's talking about. It is seen and done that way because of what I mentioned before - anyone who didn't go along with it was killed. There is not much wonder why most people don't understand it and are confused today.

ly seek out your answers before you make any attempt to justify some reply to post by JaxonRoberts

1. The size of the Ark itself when compared to it's cargo: According to the Bible, "The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits." The Egyptian cubit, which Genesis' author Moses would have been familiar with, is just over 20 inches (source). Using this, the Ark would have measured a little over 500 feet long, 84 feet wide and 50 feet tall. This is smaller than your average Cruise ship. Since there are no new species here on Earth since the flood (according to the Fundies, not me), it would have had to house over 9,134 mammals, not including humans or seagoing mammals such as whales and dolphins (source), over 16,450 reptiles (source), over 13,196 amphibians (source), over 20,000 birds (source), and over 1,800,000 insects (source) if he marched them in two by two as told by the Bible. Do I even need to mention the amount of food needed to feed so many for a 40 day 'cruise'???9

First off your confusing the word "species" with the word "kind" which is the term used in the Bible. There were probably only a few hundred different kinds of of land animals which they would of took.And this would have probably been limited to his own geographical area and not the whole world.The sea animals would have been left in the sea.Many of the animals would have been in egg or seed form.(ever try catching a bird?) Oh and you forgot to mention that the ark had three stories,which tripled its space to over 1.5 million cubic feet. plenty of room.

2. The amount of rain needed to flood the Earth in only 40 days and 40 nights: Since the Bible states that "the Mountains were covered", it is safe to assume that the water rose at least 5,000 feet. In order to do this in 40 full 24 hour periods, it would have to rain 5.2 feet an hour! That's over an inch per minite, every minute for every hour for 40 full days... And since the Ark didn't have a bilge pump... Now this is based on 5,000 feet of flooding, but if we take the Bible absolutely literally, then the water covered all of the mountains, including Everest at 29,029 feet which would be over 30 feet of rain an hour! Yeah, not even close to possible!

Your forgetting that right before it started to rain the springs of the great deep burst forth.(Genesis 7:11) This could of very well meant that there was tsunamis and title waves.This would have brought the water level up in seconds.Also it states that the waters covered the face of the earth and not the whole earth.So this to was most likely in one certain geographical area. Oh, And BTW, the waters only went up 15 cubits (20 feet)

3. The lack of genetic diversity in all species: Since with the exception of humans, waterborne mammals and fish, only two of each species survived, the lack of genetic diversity would have spelled the doom for every species on the Ark, yet the world is full of life today. There's a good reason you are not allowed to procreate with your sibling(s), and it's not just a moral reason! This applies to all species, not just humans.

Who ever said that we today are pure bread humans. Maybe we are the result of inbreeding. (Just a thought)

4. The diversity of ecosystems around the Earth: Marsupials are only found on Australia, Penguins are only found in Antartica, Polar bears are only found in the Artic Circle, all places that Noah never even heard of, so how did he collect these species and then put them back in their respective environments?

Again the geographical area where the flood was would not pertain to these animals.

Maybe it's time to pull your heads out of some ancient text and take a good look at the world and the universe around you! It's full of wonders that that ancient text didn't even have a clue about! Welcome to the 21st Century!

Maybe you should not be so narrow minded and diligently seek out your own answers before you attempt to justify some ancient text.

reply to post by badmedia

You seem to think that because I speak in favor of the bible that I am a christian. I'm not

The word Christian means an adherent of Christ. Which means you follow Christ. I think your confusing the word Christian with organized religion such as the Catholics.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Ok. I don't care about the specifics. There was a great flood.
How much water and how many animals is irrelevant.

Look around you. When all these different cultures have the same exact story, it means something. They all tell a story about a boat and a flood.

Hmm...

Hindu:
Manu, the first human, found a small fish in his washwater. The fish begged protection from the larger fishes, in return for which it would save Manu. Manu kept the fish safe, transferring it to larger and larger reservoirs as it grew, eventually taking it to the ocean. The fish warned Manu of a coming deluge and told him to build a ship. When the flood rose, the fish came, and Manu tied the craft to its horn. The fish led him to a northern mountain and told Manu to tie the ship's rope to a tree to prevent it from drifting. Manu, alone of all creatures, survived. He made offerings of clarified butter, sour milk, whey, and curds. From these, a woman arose, calling herself Manu's daughter. Whatever blessings he invoked through her were granted him. Through her, he generated this race.
__________________________________________________________
Celtic:
Heaven and Earth were great giants, and Heaven lay upon the Earth so that their children were crowded between them, and the children and their mother were unhappy in the darkness. The boldest of the sons led his brothers in cutting up Heaven into many pieces. From his skull they made the firmament. His spilling blood caused a great flood which killed all humans except a single pair, who were saved in a ship made by a beneficent Titan. The waters settled in hollows to become the oceans.
__________________________________________________________
Sumerian:
The gods had decided to destroy mankind. The god Enlil warned the priest-king Ziusudra ("Long of Life") of the coming flood by speaking to a wall while Ziusudra listened at the side. He was instructed to build a great ship and carry beasts and birds upon it. Violent winds came, and a flood of rain covered the earth for seven days and nights. Then Ziusudra opened a window in the large boat, allowing sunlight to enter, and he prostrated himself before the sun-god Utu. After landing, he sacrificed a sheep and an ox and bowed before Anu and Enlil. For protecting the animals and the seed of mankind, he was granted eternal life and taken to the country of Dilmun, where the sun rises.

(source) Flood stories from Around the World

There's 100's of stories. We know something happened.
I would'nt dis-credit the Bible just yet.

Actually, anyone who talked of any extra meaning in the bible was typically killed and shunned in society. Not only killed, but burned in public for everyone to see - to spread fear.

Where's the source of your information?

You seem to think that because I speak in favor of the bible that I am a christian. I'm not. I dislike organized religion and so forth. However, I know the bible has deeper understanding and meaning.

This deeper meaning claim would keep us ignorant and conforming to society forever. For over a thousand years no one has found the hidden meanings, and it's probable for the next thousand years to still be undiscovered.

The bible seem more of a convenient method to hinder critical thinking, instill fear, increased ignorance, and ultimately hinder you from learning of self and the power you possess. It's a primary reason the elite are running rampage and looking down at us like a small ant farm that has very little potential of re-claiming their power.

Humanity is such a submissive race.

If you actually understood the bible, then you would know that organized religion and such that you see is not what it's talking about. It is seen and done that way because of what I mentioned before - anyone who didn't go along with it was killed. There is not much wonder why most people don't understand it and are confused today.

I can admit I haven't read the bible for over 2 years, I broke away from the religion when I was 16. Now I'm 18 and see why it was a good choice.

Originally posted by GrandKitaro777
Where's the source of your information?

History? Are you saying you are unaware of the history of the Catholic church? The crusades, the dark ages etc?

This deeper meaning claim would keep us ignorant and conforming to society forever. For over a thousand years no one has found the hidden meanings, and it's probable for the next thousand years to still be undiscovered.

No, the information is there to anyone who seeks it. The bible is just an expression of understanding. You don't need the bible or anything like that. Nor is the current state of society and the status quo even endorsed by the bible. In fact, the status quo of this world is against the bible.

The bible seem more of a convenient method to hinder critical thinking, instill fear, increased ignorance, and ultimately hinder you from learning of self and the power you possess. It's a primary reason the elite are running rampage and looking down at us like a small ant farm that has very little potential of re-claiming their power.

I use to be an atheist and so forth. It just takes time and a little understanding really. You are still pretty young, and thus have alot to learn. I was 30 years old before I started to realize why atheism dumb.

There is a difference between god, and what people say and do in the name of god. There is a difference between what the bible says, and what people who claim to be Christians do.

You mentioned before about the elite. Well let me show you how you still accept them and play right into their plans.

See my sig? There are 2 kinds of closed minded people in the world, those who believe and those who don't.

The reason why this is the case is because you have still allowed those people to define the concept of god to you. You have still allowed them to define religion and other things for you. As such, even though you think you reject them, you actually still accept them. They(Elite) do not care if you believe them or not. Just so long as you allow them to define the topic for you.

I can admit I haven't read the bible for over 2 years, I broke away from the religion when I was 16. Now I'm 18 and see why it was a good choice.

Reading the bible and understanding the bible are 2 different things.

You are still young, you got alot to live/learn etc. My best advice is not to knock things you don't understand.

The reason why Christianity has promoted ignorance is because it teaches acceptance. But when you accept, then you will not understand.

Einstein expressed this as: Any fool can know, the point it to understand. Any fool can memorize E=MC2, but the point is to understand it. Any fool can repeat "Jesus is truth" or something else, but the point is to understand it.

Knowledge of the holy is understanding(proverbs 9).

So, all Christians do is accept and repeat, they do not understand. They are no different than people who walk around saying E=MC2, but have no clue what it means.

You show me what Christians do that is dumb, and I will show you where they were wrong to do it. I call Christianity the anti-christ religion. It is opposite of the truth.



[edit on 12/27/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by oliveoil
The word Christian means an adherent of Christ. Which means you follow Christ. I think your confusing the word Christian with organized religion such as the Catholics.

I don't follow Jesus, I follow the father. So did Jesus, thus I agree with Jesus and understand what he was talking about.

Christianity is the anti-Christ religion. Basically everything about it at it's base is against the things Jesus taught.

Lets go down the list.

1. Religion in the name of Christ? Check.
2. Brought about by someone who comes after Jesus, while Jesus warns that which comes after him has nothing for him(Paul)? Check.
3. That man appeals to the political powers of this world? Check.
4. Marriage of church and state as a result? Check.
5. Imbeded with "Pagan/Mystery Religion"? Check.
6. Proceeds to then go around killing everyone who doesn't convert to their religion? Check.
7. Is not persecuted, but instead does the persecution. Check.
8. Has built it's following throw death and destruction and sin? Check.
9. Won't be happy until it's the 1 world religion? Check.
10. Promotes ignorance and deception? Check.

Sorry, but I will never call myself a Christian. Just because they stole the name and killed anyone who didn't go along with their version, burning and hiding texts, keeping people ignorant and whatever possible to keep their own power doesn't mean they actually represent it.

Those who followed Jesus were called another name. Oh yeah - "Jews".

reply to post by badmedia

You show me what Christians do that is dumb, and I will show you where they were wrong to do it. I call Christianity the anti-christ religion. It is opposite of the truth.

Here you go again with Christians and Christianity. What part of this word don't you understand? .

Main Entry: 1Chris·tian
Pronunciation: \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin christianus, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos
Date: 1526

1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1) : disciple 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961
2 : the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress

Do you not profess belief in the teachings of Jesus?

Those who followed Jesus were called another name. Oh yeah - "Jews".

So now your saying your Jewish.? Get real man!!

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

What do you think this name is ? clue: Its not Jehovah Witnesses.


[edit on 27-12-2009 by oliveoil]

[edit on 27-12-2009 by oliveoil]