Dangers of Neutering your dog

The ENTIRE first and second posts - BOTH OF THEM - practically every word in your first second and third post is COPY/PASTED. It is nothing but copy/pasted material - not even paraphrased! The PDF file not cited at all.

And you go as far to say: and you see 'IN MY RESEARCH'... This was presented TO MEMBERS as YOUR WORK - not as THREE POSTS of copy/pasted google material.

You DID NOT have THAT SOURCE CITED at anytime - until I posted. You cited sources but you CONVENIENTLY LEFT OUT the primary source you stole all of someones hard work for.

So, you KNEW what you were doing was WRONG or you wouldnt have had the need or want to include sources, yet conveniently leave OUT the only page you literally copy and pasted into 3 posts here - claiming it to be 'your research'.

Your words - not mine... 'my research'

Dont call me a liar again until YOU BUST ME. Got it? Ive paid my dues and earned my level of respect. I busted you wide open - youre a liar and I have a right to say that.

You dont have that right as my hands, reputation and heart is pure and clean here on ATS as it is out in the world!

reply to post by Little One


I apologize to you for calling you dude, i meant no offense. I'm just very frustrated because all the links that are in this post were there before probably 6am this morning, i swear to you. I'm an honest person and if they werent i would fess up. My wrong doing was not putting the copied info in quotes. My mistake and i apologize for that but i absolutley

I'm not "playing" the innocent role. I had all of those links there more than 12 hours ago. Yes there were edits to my posts, over 12 hours ago, at least.

If I did not put those links there i would fess up. I'm frustrated because you are accusing me of something that is not true.

Again I apologize for not putting the copied info in quotes and if i could i would edit it now and make sure it looked proper. But as i have said, i cant even edit them now. For some reason my first 2 posts dont have the edit button next to them. Not sure why, i have sent a message to the mods and asked them and i have also asked if they can post my edit times as it will clear my name. I put those links in very close to the original posts. The only reason they didnt go in immediately is because when i first made this tread, it was in the wrong section and semperfortis moved it to BTS by mistake and i had to recreate the whole thing and when i reposted it the link text was there but the url was not.

Again, i'm sorry i didnt put my copied info in quotes and believe me after this thread i will never forget. But I would not lie about this, my links have been in those posts for a long time and i truly believe that you made a mistake and did not see them.

I'm not a dishonest person and you can check my previous posts and threads, i try very hard to not be disingenuous.

Sorry, sorry sorry, for not putting copied data in quotes. I would correct it if i could. I'm not trying to take credit for someone elses work. That is why i kept saying "THE RESEARCH" and not MY RESEARCH.

I dont know what else to do, i'm being honest with you and i dont have a way to prove it to you unless the mods will post my edit times that is the only thing that will show that i didnt edit my posts while we were talking.

I've had many animals over the years and all of them have been fixed. Some sooner than others.

Here is what I have learned through my own experience.

One female dog I had that was fixed before her first heat cycle, developed urinary incontinence.
One Female dog that was fixed after one heat cycle did not.

One male cat that was fixed before 6 mos. old developed and died from breast cancer.

Male cats that are adult (strays that found me) and have been spraying will not stop spraying after they are neutered. ( Unfortunately!)

One female dog that was spayed within a week of having puppies ( a pound dog) developed thyroid problems and diabetes.

Male dog that is neutered still gets excited and get erections.

Female cats can and DO spray if they are not spayed.

From now on, any female cat or dog that I get that is pup/kitten, I will wait until one heat cycle to get them fixed.

I don't like getting them fixed like some vets recommend at a few months old.

I'm cooking dinner while posting this so I may have to come back and edit. Can't do two things at once.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
I was not trying to steal anyones work and now i have to use this tread to defend myself instead of discussing the topic of the thread.

Learn the lesson. Use External quote tags next time. If you don't know how, ask someone. If you do know how and choose not to, then expect more accusations of plagiarism. That's just the way it is. EWIW, I believe you.

Spaying and neutering is something each "parent" has to decide for themselves. I don't support mandatory S&N, but I do wish more people would be more responsible.

My girls were all spayed at 6 to 8 months and my boy at 18 months. Yes there are pros and cons to both, but keeping the population down is more important to me, especially since the statistics cannot map to show that S&N cause cancer. My dogs are all cancer-free and healthy, thankfully.

[edit on 27-12-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Now That rocked!

I, hopefully we, can all know regardless of your intentions - Probably good - ATS dont play.

In the long run this will actually be a huge learning experience. Honestly! You learned a lot. You will certainly be more careful not to even remotely seem as if you might be bull#tting around here. Because...

If I dont get you - someone else will. Who knows this time next yr we may be best of friends... lets at least try to believe everything happens for a reason. Gives me a ray of hope hehe

Big Hugs?

reply to post by Little One


I never said my research and you say i didnt put those links in until after said something and that is absolutely a lie. That pdf was in the second post from the very beginning.

You either missed it or you are lying to discredit me. I'm not sure. I really wish a mod would step in and clear this up.

I am not a liar and the only thing i am guilty of is not putting quoted data in quotes.

Here is the info that i copied from the first post:

Pros and Cons for Neutering your Male Dog

On the positive side, neutering male dogs
• eliminates the small risk (probably

Originally posted by Little One
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

Now That rocked!

I, hopefully we, can all know regardless of your intentions - Probably good - ATS dont play.

In the long run this will actually be a huge learning experience. Honestly! You learned a lot. You will certainly be more careful not to even remotely seem as if you might be bull#tting around here. Because...

If I dont get you - someone else will. Who knows this time next yr we may be best of friends... lets at least try to believe everything happens for a reason. Gives me a ray of hope hehe

Big Hugs?

No way, you are rude and fill in the blank for what i think of you. You could have been polite and pointed out my quoting mistake but my links were 100% there and you missed them. I'm sorry you dont believe me but they were. I said from your first accusation that i should have quoted them but i forgot and i would have corrected it if i could. But my edit button is not there.

You were beyond rude and called me a liar and accused me of trying to steal from people.

You misquoted me saying i claimed this research as MY Research and I never did I always said THE research.

I have learned a lesson, some people are really really rude and instead of being polite and pointing out my mistakes they need to feel like they are better than others.

I hope people can see through all this confusion and understand what i was trying to get across and that i was NOT trying to claim any of the research that others did as my own.


I hope you are full of pride for all your hard work. Calling me a liar and accusing me of things that are false and could be verified by the mods of the site.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thank you so much for believing me, I was not trying to claim someone else work as my own. And it means a lot that someone(especially you) believes me.

I'm glad you wait to spay an neuter. My whole point of this thread was to show that there are dangers that vets do not make clear. I have asked them and then never mention the data regarding increases in other forms of cancer.

thanks again, you believing me means a lot. i'm not a liar and have been posting here for quite some time and have never been attacked like this. I hope my credibility is not hurt by littleones accusations

regards


i love your dog very cute, i have a black mouth cur and he is intact and spoiled

reply to post by Little One


No, the edit button for my first two posts is not there!@!! I know how to quote and i would change it on the first if i could.

You are a troll.

Why dont you get back on topic and focus on the topic of this thread

Yes... getting back on topic would be good, since it's interesting.

I'll add the proper tags to the OP(s)

reply to post by masqua


Thank you so much. Can you please add my edit times? I would really appreciated it. Littleone is making accusations that are untrue and i think she may be trolling. Not sure.

Again I appreciate you fixing it.. Also, why am i not able to edit the OPs? the edit button is not there.

There is a 2-hour limit to edits which all members have to live with. Don't worry about it and try to use links and either [*quote] of [*ex] BBCode in the future when using external material.

Let's get back on this topic since it IS important information with all the people who love their pets.

Originally posted by masqua
There is a 2-hour limit to edits which all members have to live with. Don't worry about it and try to use links and either [*quote] of [*ex] BBCode in the future when using external material.

Let's get back on this topic since it IS important information with all the people who love their pets.

Thank you masqua

Littleone, do you see this. OPs can only be edited within 2 hours of their post time. My OP was at 142am est, i could only have edited up until 342am est. There is no possible way i could have edited it after you made your claim

I was telling the truth.


Good day

ENOUGH!



"iamcamouflage" DID put the links in when (s)he first posted the second post, (s)he DID credit the author/source by way of those links.

Our staff has added the appropriate BBcode and I'm confident "iamcamouflage" would have done so if they knew at the start.



BACK ON TOPIC.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


Thank you Springer.

Now back to the topic. Has anyone else ever brought up these questions to their own vet?

I honestly think that vets do this to for financial gains.

Also to any other dog owners. If you want to save money for vaccinations you can buy a 7 in 1 vaccination that will protect your pet against most diseases. You can get these online or at your local TSC store. Spectra 7

You can buy syringes and administer this vaccine yourself and save a lot of money each year. A rabies vaccine is the only vaccine that you are required to have administered by a licensed vet. You need this before you dog can be registered and it must be verified.

I have always administered vaccines(except rabies) for my dogs and its a big money saver and super easy.

I feel like your vet is less concerned about the health of your pet and more concerned about making money. As noted by the topic of this thread.

The dangers of S&N are hidden and the few small advantages are pushed as though there is data to back them up.

reply to post by virraszto

Sorry to hear about all your pets who have passed. I hear these stories far too often, seems like almost every pet owner has had one or multiples die from cancer. This is crazy there are way too many dying from cancer. Cancer rates for pets are many times higher than that of humans.

Another possible cause is the food they eat. There are many so called "good" brands that are full of, corn grain and other fillers. Dogs should not be eating grains. A good judge of your dog food is checking to see what the first two ingredients are. The first two should both be meat products.

It saddens me that so many pets die from cancer and the companies and medical professionals that are supposed to be helping and providing quality food are handing out false information. Vets hide important information about spaying and neutering and the dangers of poor food.

Check out the "puppy pack" that they give you when you take you puppy to the vet for the first time. Its usually purina or some other brand that is full of grains and fillers. I would guess that they are getting some kind of kick back to push that brand.

These are the professionals that are supposed to be looking out for the well being of your pet and they push false information and low quality products.

I walked into our local humane society one day to donate newspapers which were stacked up 6ft in the garage of the house I had just rented. When I went in I heard what sounded like a baby crying in the room just off from the office. I asked if I could walk through and see the animals and was allowed to. The crying was coming from a tiny scared little poodle, it was huddled up with another poodle that was the same color, they almost looked like one dog. It broke my heart. All the dogs and cats there broke my heart. I asked if I could volunteer the rest of my day to walk and exersize the animals and not only did they allow it, they gave me a full time paying job there. I was in charge of the puppy room. It housed all the puppies and small dogs like the ones I had met that first day. The reality of their short days there sunk in the first monday that I worked there. Every monday a vet volunteers his time to come in and euthenize as many animals as he can in an hour. Hundreds of animals a week, just at that location. I managed to save the 2 poodles, took them into my own home, along with many others that I tried to save and find new homes for. But at the root of it all, is the ugly fact that animals that are not spayed or neutered cause all this death. Over and over the same people would bring in litters of kittens or puppies, claiming they were dropped off near their home, and those litters were usually all euthenized to make room for the next weeks load, hundreds a week. Unwanted animals. I was compelled to stay at that job, even though the dreariness of it all was practically unbearable, I could make the poor things happy and fed for a few days, but I began to hate the people bringing them in, or allowing their animals to procreate with no intention of caring for them. The most common thing we would hear was ' I love thier momma, wouldn't give her up for nothing, but we can't take on 6 puppies' well the answer is in spaying and neutering. I would much rather chance a small part of the animal population having cancer risks, than see the continuous barrage of unwanted animals killed every week all across the nation. Imagine if those who are killed were not, we would have dogs and cats on every sidewalk, in every yard, outside every building, but the way to control that is by spaying and neutering, not killing them, but there has to be a method of population control of domestic animals that are homeless or without a caregiver, you should weigh those options before deciding not to spay or not to nueter please.

edit to add: The poodles I kept lived for many years, the male lived to be 17, the female lived to be 21, and she died of cancer. I never had her spayed because she was too old when I got her to birth.

[edit on 27-12-2009 by space cadet]

*** Do not alter or remove staff edits ***




[edit on 28-12-2009 by xX aFTeRm4Th Xx]

[edit on 28-12-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Has anyone else ever brought up these questions to their own vet?

I haven't, simply because I know from my own research when is the best time to neuter pets. If I have a question for my vet, I ask my dog friends first, THEN ask my vet to see what he says. I have gone against his advice many times.

What I HAVE found is that vets are like human doctors. They know what they know, but they don't always have the latest and best information. My vet cringes at the thought of me feeding my dogs raw meat with bones, but in my opinion, it's one of the best and the most natural diet for dogs as long as it's not COOKED bones.

I think vets have limited knowledge and that's why they neuter animals at 8 weeks old sometimes! It's insane. I love my vet but don't trust him exclusively. I think it's not wise to do so.

I feel like your vet is less concerned about the health of your pet and more concerned about making money.

Many are. That's why they have Science Diet and Iams foods in their offices and push these lesser foods on the unsuspecting public. Because they get paid by these companies to do so. Unfortunately, vets are not nutritionists and haven't studied the ingredients in these foods.

That's why I always do my own research with knowledgeable dog people I "know" on the internet before I give the OK to my vet for a procedure.

Thank you for this informative thread. We talk too little about dogs for my liking.