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Alex,..I'll take strange lights over Norway for $1000

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posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


Are you sure?


I have been notified that the photo in my paper was Taken from "Skjervoy" not "Tromsø." I will investigate and edit my paper accordingly. Thank you all. *


Seems the paper is being edited, so the data remains inconclusive.




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by john124
 


Perhaps this is what you are looking for, John124.


That pretty much proves that it could not have been a missile or rocket.


really? are you serious?

why don't you give us YOUR viewpoint on why you think that .pdf "seals the deal for you..
that .pdf is FULL of observations based on ASSUMPTIONS without ANY sort of reference other than what he DIDN"T care to look up.

wow.. "proof" ??

b



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 




Very well then.

Not because of mathematical error, but location . . .

Interesting.

I wonder what the new information given will change . . .

I wish that person who left the comment would have left a link to what they have been working on.

It is kind of strange that everyone accredited the photos to being in Tromsø when they were taken in Skjervoy.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by Bspiracy

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by john124
 


Perhaps this is what you are looking for, John124.


That pretty much proves that it could not have been a missile or rocket.


really? are you serious?

why don't you give us YOUR viewpoint on why you think that .pdf "seals the deal for you..
that .pdf is FULL of observations based on ASSUMPTIONS without ANY sort of reference other than what he DIDN"T care to look up.

wow.. "proof" ??

b






2+2=4 must be just an assumption then . . . lol


Mathematical proof is not assumption, friend.

But seeing as how he (along with everyone and their mother) had the photo location wrong, the math needs to be redone . . .

I await the revised version. I am curious.

[edit on 12/29/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 04:30 AM
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Originally posted by DGFenrir
reply to post by Paradox.
 


Sweet.. Another armchair-psychiatrist.

This is another theory which hasn't even been explained enough to consider it being a possiblility. The human mind is a very frustrating thing. It operates on such a level to mitigate stress and fear so that your memory and speculation is essentially "dumbed down." Why? Because we would rather the spiral be from aliens/HAARP/insert favourite theory here. Most people seem to accept these theories without using their brains first to think if the tech described actually can produce a phenomena like that or not.
It's the same defence mechanism that you described.



What is your reasoning, (just curious), for associating HAARP with Aliens?
Because of the claims of HAARP's "Top Secret" capabilities being as outrageous as Aliens or another reason?

The fact is that HAARP is a current funded project, over sited by the Air Force and Navy that wither it performs the "outlandish" functions or not, is a real viable option, if not it, one of the many other countries holding such similar patents and working machines. Norway happens to have one as you know, so I am curious, what about it that gives you that perspective?

Peace



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by john124
What has a cyclotron particle accelerator have to do with the shape & colour effects from that day that appear to be a failed rocket test? Nice try, but this is about as pointless as claiming the answer is any patent that has a few fancy physicsy words that can be twisted into an assumption that such a device produces the same spiral effects, and that such a device has been used at this time and location.

There's a computer simulation of what happened, and it matches the characteristics of a failed rocket test with the same tinges. The video of the spiral over Norway is not exact because of the fairly low-resolution camera footage causing the gradual change in contrast between dark and light less obvious.



I lose faith in every conspiracy theory when I see people blaming a particle accelerator for a rocket trail, when nobody can explain how a particle accelerator can produce this spiral effect miraculously just like rocket ejecta. And copying and pasting technical jargon doesn't count! And neither does simply stating it matches the physics and electronics of a weather device, or other device, if the explanation as to how is lacking.

If someone copies and pastes technical jargon for a microwave they might end up convincing some idiot that they have discovered a time-machine!


[edit on 29-12-2009 by john124]


Yup...

It's a missile!




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by letthereaderunderstand
 


I'm not associating aliens with HAARP/EISCAT. Just named the most popular causes of the spiral.
They are both outrageous until someone provides evidence or a very good explanation.
Everythig's a possiblility if it's not based on fantasies or copy-pasted text that nobody understands.


Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
I wonder what the new information given will change . . .


I'll give you a hint: EISCAT is definitely not involved.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by cjhahaha
 

G'day cjhahaha

As I wrote previously in this thread & also in another thread about this case, I believe it was a missile test.

It looked very similar to the several previous videos of spiraling rockets/missiles that were the subjects of previous threads.

I believe the visual differences can be accounted for via the poor contrast resolution in the poor quality videos of this event.

I suspect I am in a small minority in this thread


Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Try to digest a little of this thinking before you become to rigid.
Sure the Russians said they launched a rocket and they most likely did.
No where do they say that, that missile caused the spiral seen from Norway.
A third stage failure would put the ICBM out of site of Norway and the White sea.
No one from Russia or other countries report or document the spiral.
There has been no conformation of the third stage malfunction location that I am aware of by the Russian government or military.
No missile of that type would be allowed to spin out of control that long.
The launch trajectory would have to be close to 90 degrees off course to begin with.
It would be terminated well before it could cause the spiral.
It seems to me the only advocates of the missile theory are spooks or folks that no nothing of aborting failed launches.
Possibly folks that want the HAARP thinking suppressed.
Remember your video is a simulation. There are no real vids or photos of rockets or missiles that look like the Norway spiral.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by Donny 4 million]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Third stage puts it exactly into sight of Norway.
They don't have to say to you that their missile caused the spiral. They don't care what you think.
Photos were taken from two towns in Norway. One of the very well excludes EISCAT as being the source of the spiral.
Why would they terminate the missile when they can let it fall into the ocean, salvage it and then study it to find out what went wrong.
Maybe they forced the missile to dump the fuel?
There's nothing wrong with the trajectory.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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Everyone is quick to debunk rockets sometimes for a valid reason but then they make a grave mistake and just point the finger at EISCAT.

Why grave ? Because they provide absolutely zero evidence or sources on how a HF heater can not only produce a visual effect but a symmetrical colored one.

They seem to not have a basic understanding that most patents/designs/studies/etc dealing with EISCAT/HAARP are non visual, after all whens the last time you saw a radio wave?
Most of the spiral related data and imagery are from graph plots and visual mathematical models.

In order to make it credible you must provide some proof even if conceptual, as long as it makes sense.

Do to that you will need to:

Prove that EISCAT can produce VISUAL effects below the ionosphere that are actually visible to the naked eye or ground based cameras.

What is actually producing the visuals?, The HF heater is not a projector it sends high frequency radio waves to excite the atmosphere, whats it hitting dust? a sounding rocket chem release? It it somehow just appearing out of thin air like a genie?

How do you create a symmetrical design using a HF antenna? Beaming a certain frequency? Pulsing the antennas in a circular pattern? How does one create a large spiral using radio waves?

Why are the colors mainly white with a bit of blue? Most ion "excitation" produces green visuals, and the Tromso natural aurora is no exception.
www.flickr.com...

The color is an important indication on the type of radio wave used and the atmospheric height of the heated molecules ( oxygen most likely). So what frequency and elevation produces white visuals?

I can go on...

My point is that the people quick to point to EISCAT don't have very much real data to back the accusation up, the rocket theory on the other hand does.

Then again most people make their minds up before trying to figure things out.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by wtfhuh]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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Hi, donny 4 million.

Im so glad you posted your last one. I was in favour of the "Rocket theory" untill you layed out the apparent lack of evidence.

I'd never thought about the launch abort aspect of the argument and it seems sensible that such a control would have been in place.

Would they have feared aborting it with so much fuel on board i wonder?

Your right. The above video is nothing more than a possible reconstruction.
Now its all up in the air again. lol (bad pun alert)



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by DGFenrir
reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Third stage puts it exactly into sight of Norway.
They don't have to say to you that their missile caused the spiral. They don't care what you think.
Photos were taken from two towns in Norway. One of the very well excludes EISCAT as being the source of the spiral.
Why would they terminate the missile when they can let it fall into the ocean, salvage it and then study it to find out what went wrong.
Maybe they forced the missile to dump the fuel?
There's nothing wrong with the trajectory.


Could you determine where the third stage ignition would exactly occur?
They don't care what you think but you believe them.
I don't think anyone knows the truth about such advanced technology.
It is certainly beyond your thinking as you grasp not even the possibility of it being a part of the phenomena.
EISCAT was in operation at or around the time of the imagery.
Bare in mind Copenhagen and the dual reason the President of the USA should be there.
Are you saying that with that spiral you could predict where it would land?
I thought it might settle down on Phages desk myself.
I am not up on the type fuel used in third stage.You can't dump solid fuel for sure.
Nothing wrong with the trajectory of a rogue rocket?
Please don't quit your day job and join a missile launch team.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


I like the way you are going about the thought process.

I am getting disgusted with all the supposed conspiracy people here who keep claiming definitively what it is or is not. We have no earthly idea what will happen with the LHC. If you do, then get on a plane to Sweden and save those people months/years of work. We don't know what HAARP does. If you do, then I suspect you are breaching security clearance by telling us. Even by telling us what it can't do. The big picture is right now, we know nothing, and until we do, we should look at all the possibilities and discuss every angle in hopes that someone will come up with a good theory and we will all walk away a bit smarter. If you have no desire to learn anything new, please go to www.tmz.com and catch up on all the paparazzi gossip. That might be better suited to your likes. Admitting that you don't know everything isn't a bad thing, it's the first step to learning.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by network dude]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


The ignition would occur in about 2 minutes after the launch. That would put it high enough to be visible from several hundred kms away.
I came to the missile conclusion myself. Long before they admitted to testing a missile.
EISCAT beyond my thinking as I grasp not even the possibility of it being a part of the phenomena?
There should be a rule which prohibits such claims. If you've actually read my posts then I've considered EISCAT/whatever being a possibility but none of the supporters of those theories are able to explain how exactly the tech could produce such a phenomena.
EISCAT is often operational, why haven't we seen this before? Explain this! And how would EISCAT produce such a phenomena. If you can't explain it and still believe it then you are simply clinging to your fantasy world.
If I see my missile above the ocean then where else would it fall if it's fuel gets dumped and it loses thrust?
Third stage of the Bulava uses liquid fuel.
A failure doesn't neseccarily mean a uncontrolled missile. We don't know the details of the failure.

And if you'd actually do research on the topic and analyze photographs you'd see that the direction the spiral was seen is exactly where the missile was launched from.

And why the hell do you people have to start yapping about something that's completely off-topic every time your beliefs are questioned?

Oh noes! Teh skeptic asked me a question I can't answer. Bad skeptic! Go away!! We don't want to discuss the plausibility of our theories!



A few questions I asked that nobody has been able to answer:


Which way should the spiral rotate in case of right-hand circular polarization when the wave is moving away from the viewers? Clockwise or counter-clockwise?
And also if this theory is correct then shouldn't the spiral appear right above the transmitters? And be aligned with the magnetic field? In the photos and videos it's crossed with the Earth's magnetic field.
And the most important question: Would it actually be visible?


[edit on 29/12/2009 by DGFenrir]

[edit on 29/12/2009 by DGFenrir]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by DGFenrir
reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


The ignition would occur in about 2 minutes after the launch. That would put it high enough to be visible from several hundred kms away.
I came to the missile conclusion myself. Long before they admitted to testing a missile.
EISCAT beyond my thinking as I grasp not even the possibility of it being a part of the phenomena?
There should be a rule which prohibits such claims. If you've actually read my posts then I've considered EISCAT/whatever being a possibility but none of the supporters of those theories are able to explain how exactly the tech could produce such a phenomena.
EISCAT is often operational, why haven't we seen this before? Explain this! And how would EISCAT produce such a phenomena. If you can't explain it and still believe it then you are simply clinging to your fantasy world.
If I see my missile above the ocean then where else would it fall if it's fuel gets dumped and it loses thrust?
Third stage of the Bulava uses liquid fuel.
A failure doesn't neseccarily mean a uncontrolled missile. We don't know the details of the failure.

And if you'd actually do research on the topic and analyze photographs you'd see that the direction the spiral was seen is exactly where the missile was launched from.

And why the hell do you people have to start yapping about something that's completely off-topic every time your beliefs are questioned?

Oh noes! Teh skeptic asked me a question I can't answer. Bad skeptic! Go away!! We don't want to discuss the plausibility of our theories!



A few questions I asked that nobody has been able to answer:


Which way should the spiral rotate in case of right-hand circular polarization when the wave is moving away from the viewers? Clockwise or counter-clockwise?
And also if this theory is correct then shouldn't the spiral appear right above the transmitters? And be aligned with the magnetic field? In the photos and videos it's crossed with the Earth's magnetic field.
And the most important question: Would it actually be visible?


[edit on 29/12/2009 by DGFenrir]

[edit on 29/12/2009 by DGFenrir]


So you are saying the missile was launched by mechanical means?
And then the thrust rocket ignited 2 minutes. later? Longitude and latitude please.
Are we still at first stage?
Where is this location on a map?
Now where on a map is the 3rd stage ignition the one that fails? Longitude and latitude please.
The one that causes the out of control spiral.
Why was the initial blue spiral coming from south to north?

Who is yapping off topic. Call a mod someone!!

As for HAARP. Trust me I was one of a hand full of GI's trusted to repair and maintain in country (Nam)
nuclear tipped missiles. They were radio controlled.
I worked on or was familiar with Top secret radio and micro wave equipment 40 years ago.
When man supposedly set foot on the moon. Have we advanced technologically?
That is why HAARP is not in the NASA poo pile.
The big deal with HAARP and other high powered radio transmission is that it is directional and not restricted to a certain location. That is why you hear so mush about the ionosphere. It is a layer of the upper atmosphere that can morph with just the every day rotation of the earth.This morphing has been exploited since the use of the "crystal set radio." "The Shadow Knows"
With the correct antenna (directional) and the right frequency (variable you know) coupled with the tremendous amount of power generated and a chemically salted atmosphere .
THE SKY IS THE LIMIT.
They cold broadcast an image of Barak Obama over Copenhagen.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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I don't know if this jives with you guys and gals, but, what if there is a silent war going on behind our backs, and for many of us, right in front of our faces. Yet somehow, even those on ATS have failed to notice.
In case it slipped your mind and you need a refresher,
#1. Russia makes a huge presence with their Nuclear fleet in defiance of U.S. requests to stay out of the gulf.
#2. Russia clearly states that they are now free to use Nuclear Armaments in war, violating the Nuclear Nonproliferation treaty, because clearly the U.S. doesn't give a damn either. And yeah, they even said they were reserving the right to use it inside their own country, against their own people. Anyone remember that?
This is just hearsay, but it makes sense, Russia's Nuclear and Biological weapons units are the most highly advanced in the world, buy a gas mask, go ahead, tell me who makes the best ones? Russia does, you know why, because they have to.
#3.You guys remember the strange weather pattern in Russia this fall (huge hole in the clouds) well the reason it was there was because they were using their missile defense system. What the footage showed was a portion of the lower atmosphere lifted out of place, leaving a perfect hole. My PYCCKNN friend says it was spectacular. So Russia was attacked, by who? Doesn't matter. What does matter is this.
#4. Russia clearly states that it has been testing ICBM's and they have been failing. Do you know what kind of payload those things carry, if not you don't want to. So, THEY'RE RETALIATING AGAINST SOMEONE. What many witnessed as the Norway Spiral was and is a missile defense system, BLOCKING AN ICBM !
And here's the kicker, you guys ready? Everyone was just standing around, just like in Hiroshima, just looking up at the sky like, "wow, what's that thing"? Even scarier is that it is ongoing, it's happening as we speak. Tell me this, have any of you noticed some of the other threads about Russia up-ing their Nuke program. Saying the U.S. is just wasting it's time with missile defense systems? They're trying to punch through, and no one seems to care. And yes, it's going on all over, snow in Israel and Iraq, Iran, Harp systems, Russia sold a missile defense system to them last year, wasn't it. I hope you guys noticed that, it was right before the strange weather patterns started happening over there, also right before some interesting patterns in the sky started occurring, that were identical to the one in Russia (hole in the clouds) because it was Russia's M.D.S. And if the patterns are being seen, it's because the M.D.S. is being used. If it was being used, they had a reason. Denial of airspace happens at a much higher altitude than you or I will usually be able to notice. Meaning, they were warding off an attack. What many may not know is that right on the bottom of the ocean is where they lay out huge cables in interesting patterns. I can say with 99%certainty that the spiral occurred at the same time that all the lights on the Kenai Peninsula went out. Transformers blowing up, purple lightning, one reason, they fired HARP. Why did our power go out? Cause HARP and I reside in Alaska. Big News? Nah, so it wiped out the peninsula, that's what, a discharge of electrical potential from an area approx. 300x 250 miles. Why did they fire, DENIAL OF AIRSPACE. What does it mean, AN ICBM GOT ERASED. Russia even admitted that they were TESTING and had a MALFUNCTION, AFTER THE FACT! AND DID ANYONE NOTICE? They were TESTING our shield, the missile MALFUNCTIONED by not penetrating.

I don't know what to say anymore. Maybe you guys should check out the specs on Russia's malfunctioning warheads!
Peace, and longevity
Edit for dimwittedness.


[edit on 2009/12/30 by EliyahuHaNave]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


I was answering your question. The ignition of the third stage. If you know where it was launched from and know the target then you don't need to be a rocket scientist to tell where it might have been during the ignition of the third stage.
How can you tell taht it was coming from the south to north? How about south-west to north-east?
The current patent discussed in this thread relies on magnetic field lines. The patent mentions helical trajectiory of the charged particles and not a spiral. Also it mentions no visible results.

If you are so sure that HAARP could broadcast an image of Barak Obama over Copenhagen then please explain how exactly would it accomplish this?
I'm here to learn so educate me on the subject, please.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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Funny, I posted a reply on the original strange lights in Norway-thread where I stated that the spirals reminded me of a problem on a physics-exam I had a few days before the event. That specific problem was in fact about a cyclotron (albeit by the ground on a much smaller scale, I would think) which accelerated particles in a spiral manner, using magnetic and electrical fields, if I recall correctly.

I'm not sure how plausible it is as an explanation to the phenomena, but it's a funny coincidence nonetheless!

What would be the point of having a giant particle-accelerator in the sky, really?

[edit on 30-12-2009 by aboveGoos]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:20 PM
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I want to believe in magic too



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


Oh hey, that adds up a whole new variable concerning the swine-flu conspiracies
The narrated slideshow was rater tacky though.





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