Actually, I can attest that they are.
Generally speaking, what I see from Project is a well educated guy/gal whose explaining Islam in a good way. Obviously there would be a monumental difference between the way he/she explains it, rather than the majority of religious clerics who have no real education and are simply speaking on behalf of government for political purposes more than anything, and therein lies the biggest problem; influence (ie; the people whose voices are loudest).
This is certainly not localized to Islam. I have noted that you explain Hinduism and India's history far better than most others I've encountered, Indigo. The same consideration should apply to yourself.
This is all, of course, in terms of ancient civilization. Above Rome is Byzantium, which in turn is equal to Ottoman. The Renaissance in Europe mark the real "end" of that era of antiquity. The only nation to continue past was the ottomans. lol.
But back to the point, India's just above average. Sorry, but they did not do that much. Certainly a lot, but not that much.
They invented our wondrous number system, but it was the Romans, Arabs, and ottomans that did anything with that.
Some of the areas of mathematics studied in ancient and medieval India include the following:
Arithmetic: Decimal system, Negative numbers (see Brahmagupta), Zero (see Hindu-Arabic numeral system), the modern positional notation numeral system, Floating point numbers (see Kerala School), Number theory, Infinity (see Yajur Veda), Transfinite numbers, Irrational numbers (see Shulba Sutras)
Geometry: Square roots (see Bakhshali approximation), Cube roots (see Mahavira), Pythagorean triples (see Sulba Sutras; Baudhayana and Apastamba state the Pythagorean theorem without proof), Transformation (see Panini), Pascal's triangle (see Pingala)
Algebra: Quadratic equations (see Sulba Sutras, Aryabhata, and Brahmagupta), Cubic equations and Quartic equations (biquadratic equations) (see Mahavira and Bhāskara II)
Mathematical logic: Formal grammars, formal language theory, the Panini-Backus form (see Panini), Recursion (see Panini)
General mathematics: Fibonacci numbers (see Pingala), Earliest forms of Morse code (see Pingala), Logarithms, indices (see Jaina mathematics), Algorithms, Algorism (see Aryabhata and Brahmagupta)
Trigonometry: Trigonometric functions (see Surya Siddhanta and Aryabhata), Trigonometric series (see Madhava and Kerala School)
Aryabhata I
Aryabhata (476-550) wrote the Aryabhatiya. He described the important fundamental principles of mathematics in 332 shlokas. The treatise contained:
Quadratic equations
Trigonometry
The value of π, correct to 4 decimal places.
Aryabhata also wrote the Arya Siddhanta, which is now lost. Aryabhata's contributions include:
Trigonometry:
Introduced the trigonometric functions.
Defined the sine (jya) as the modern relationship between half an angle and half a chord.
Defined the cosine (kojya).
Defined the versine (ukramajya).
Defined the inverse sine (otkram jya).
Gave methods of calculating their approximate numerical values.
Contains the earliest tables of sine, cosine and versine values, in 3.75° intervals from 0° to 90°, to 4 decimal places of accuracy.
Contains the trigonometric formula sin (n + 1) x - sin nx = sin nx - sin (n - 1) x - (1/225)sin nx.
Spherical trigonometry.
Arithmetic:
Continued fractions.
Algebra:
Solutions of simultaneous quadratic equations.
Whole number solutions of linear equations by a method equivalent to the modern method.
General solution of the indeterminate linear equation .
Mathematical astronomy:
Proposed for the first time, a heliocentric solar system with the planets spinning on their axes and following an elliptical orbit around the Sun.
Accurate calculations for astronomical constants, such as the:
Solar eclipse.
Lunar eclipse.
The formula for the sum of the cubes, which was an important step in the development of integral calculus.[63]
Calculus:
Infinitesimals:
In the course of developing a precise mapping of the lunar eclipse, Aryabhatta was obliged to introduce the concept of infinitesimals (tatkalika gati) to designate the near instantaneous motion of the moon.[64]
Differential equations:
He expressed the near instantaneous motion of the moon in the form of a basic differential equation.[64]
Exponential function:
He used the exponential function e in his differential equation of the near instantaneous motion of the moon.[64]
Varahamihira
Varahamihira (505-587) produced the Pancha Siddhanta (The Five Astronomical Canons). He made important contributions to trigonometry, including sine and cosine tables to 4 decimal places of accuracy and the following formulas relating sine and cosine functions:
Brahmagupta, in his astronomical work Brāhma Sphuṭa Siddhānta (628 CE), included two chapters (12 and 18) devoted to these fields. Chapter 12, containing 66 Sanskrit verses, was divided into two sections: "basic operations" (including cube roots, fractions, ratio and proportion, and barter) and "practical mathematics" (including mixture, mathematical series, plane figures, stacking bricks, sawing of timber, and piling of grain).[66] In the latter section, he stated his famous theorem on the diagonals of a cyclic quadrilateral:[66]
Bhaskara I
Bhaskara I (c. 600-680) expanded the work of Aryabhata in his books titled Mahabhaskariya, Aryabhattiya Bhashya and Laghu Bhaskariya. He produced:
Solutions of indeterminate equations.
A rational approximation of the sine function.
A formula for calculating the sine of an acute angle without the use of a table, correct to 2 decimal places
Mahavira
Mahavira Acharya (c. 800-870) from Karnataka, the last of the notable Jain mathematicians, lived in the 9th century and was patronised by the Rashtrakuta king Amoghavarsha. He wrote a book titled Ganit Saar Sangraha on numerical mathematics, and also wrote treatises about a wide range of mathematical topics. These include the mathematics of:
Zero.
Squares.
Cubes.
square roots, cube roots, and the series extending beyond these.
Plane geometry [disambiguation needed].
Solid geometry.
Problems relating to the casting of shadows.
Formulae derived to calculate the area of an ellipse and quadrilateral inside a circle
Mahavira also:
Asserted that the square root of a negative number did not exist
Gave the sum of a series whose terms are squares of an arithmetical progression, and gave empirical rules for area and perimeter of an ellipse.
Solved cubic equations.
Solved quartic equations.
Solved some quintic equations and higher-order polynomials.
Gave the general solutions of the higher order polynomial equations:
Solved indeterminate quadratic equations.
Solved indeterminate cubic equations.
Solved indeterminate higher order equations
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
reply to post by Project2501
Project I think we are going way off-topic now. Your esoteric views on Islam are certainly not representative of the vast majority of Muslims, they are based on very particular interpretations. Some of which I personally think are farfetched.
For the record I have great respect for Sufism. Have you seen the song Khwaja from the film Jodha Akbar?
[edit on 29-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
but because I have read 10 different translations of the Quran myself and his interpretations of finding scientific facts within it far by my estimation are very far-fetched and contrast with other claims made in that text which are unscientific(The Earth is flat like a bed held down by pegs for instance) I dismiss similar claims made by Hindus looking for scientific facts in the Vedas.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
They will take, "the human fetus is made out of bones clothed with flesh" and read embryology into it, and "in the beginning was smoke" and read Big bang thoery into it. They are dubous attempts and obviously not taken seriously by educated people.
Originally posted by CuteAngel
"The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ"
"The kingdom of heaven is within you"
"I have come to look for the lost sheep and put them in the right path"
No match. Period.
Originally posted by CuteAngel
The Quran/Islam concentrates on that which is physical. The whole problem with that is that the physical is completely worthless without that which is eternal (i.e) the soul/self which is a part of God 'Brahman' which is nothing but the universal self or existance. Without the self/soul nothing functions.
Originally posted by CuteAngel
The Quran/Islam says that we are liquid. The upanishads say that the self/soul is pure spirit/consciousness and in the physical state the self is called as 'Vaishvanara' or digestive fluid.
Originally posted by CuteAngel
To go further into this one must accept that there is something called as consciousness which is not explained in any Abrahamic religions. Only by the way of consciousness can the self EXPERIENCE. Consciousness in the self is known as 'That which is aware', 'I am' or 'I exist' or 'I am aware of my SELF'. And inorder for you to reach Brahman one must Raise/Elevate ones consciosness s as to finally reach the consciousness of Brahman/God.
Originally posted by CuteAngel
Why do you think Jesus called God as his father??? It was not to signify that Jesus was his physical begotten son but to signify that his consciousness was only next to God (i.e) he was/is the most HIGH next to God.
Originally posted by CuteAngel
If you ask me the Upanishads, The Gita and The New Testament are by far the most enlightening of all doctrines. The Quran does not match up.
Islamic Metaphysics are the True "Illuminationist Philosophy" An ignorant muslim is more dangerous than a non-believer. One of the main veils that keeps people from seeing God is Religious Fanaticism. Try to be orthodox but don't turn into a "zealot" so that Religion just becomes a way that your better than everyone else, Therefore veiling you from God. So be careful as personality can be a mask we hide behind.
Christ is a word meaning anointed one, As Isa/jesus came during the greek revolution of healing arts & out did them. As example Musa/moses was bestowed with Ayah/miracles to show Pharaoh's mystery school of magicians who was in charge, God. Every time history has a need, God has a effect for the cause of man. And where does the kingdom of God end? & as far as the sheep go doesn't Psalm 23:4 provide us with insight. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." - Psalm 23:4 Meaning the Shepherd also has the ability to lay down his crook and flail, & arms crossed as a X carry the sheep upon his back?
The most important part of Islam CuteAngel is "Piety" that meaning to be "Pious."
Perhaps you should reread your 6 lifetimes worth of hinduism you appear to have made a tragic mistake. Draupadi was into Polyandry. In the ancient Hindu epic, Mahabharata. Draupadi marries the five Pandava brothers. Krishna had 16,108 wives, I have to stop a moment & say wow just wow! And since you admire the Christian bible. Here is 1 Kings 11:1-3 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites: Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. Yep 700 wives.
The Noble Qur'an Sura 4: The Women Verse:129 And it will not be within your power to treat your wives with equal fairness, however much you may desire it; and so, do not allow yourselves to incline towards one to the exclusion of the other, leaving her in a state, as it were, of having and not having a husband. But if you put things to rights and are conscious of Him - behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace. So yes up-to four wives. Because some of us can afford more than one. Because there is not enough men to pick up the slack! Someone must tend to the flower garden. And fill it with butterflies!
I dont pretty much agree with Indigo though. He has mixed philosophy/metaphysics/spiritualism with that of science/technology also with civilization/construction/architecture and puked out everything togeather in an absolute stupidity of a thread. This leads to confusion.
This is why I said earlier I would never worship the Islamic god for my soul and reason does not consider him worthy of my worship.
The Islamic god is absolutely transcendental, beyond logic and reason. Logic cannot be used to understand him. Allah can do what he wants - even create something out of nothing. He can be merciful and he can be cruel. He can punish anybody and everybody if they haven't done anything wrong.
The God of the Gita as well as Upanishads is also mentioned as transcendental, beyond all and one without a second. I dont think you have absorbed the spiritual wisdom of the scriptures very well owing to the fact you are more interested in science as in "science known to man". But as I said we humans have a long way to go before we can even come close to comprehending the truth of God.
As for your quotes about God can do anything he wants is infact true. This is even the case with the God of the Upanishads. Why bad things happen to good people you ask??? there are many reasons that can be given for that such as 'so as to test you', 'law of consequences of action due to karma accrued from previous births', 'fate' so on and so forth.
Originally posted by CuteAngel
As I said before, Islam has a lot of good things to offer. The main point is the philosophy/metaphysics/spiritual wisdom (i.e) basic core (or) the clarified butter which has its origin in the upanishads as well as the gita is far older than Islam. You are talking about that which originated in 600 AD with that which originated as far back as 3500 BC or 7000 BC or 10000 BC or some may say even older owing to the fact that people are unable to date it. Hence I say the Indian philosophy is superior and older. Even though it is older it still depicts nobility, logic, reasoning and common sense.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
He can be merciful and he can be cruel. He can punish anybody and everybody if they haven't done anything wrong.