India: Ancient Superpower

Indian civilisation deserves its credit as being known amongst the most greatest civilisations of all time. Its contributions to the history of civilisation are so great, that it surprisingly that it does not get given more credit. There is a larger emphasis on Ancient Greece, or Ancient Egypt or Ancient Sumeria in world history. This is interesting, because Indian civilisation was larger than both Ancient Egypt and Sumeria put together and far more technologically and culturally advanced. And its philosophy far more developed and older than Ancient Greece There is even reason to believe that Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt and Ancient Sumeria may have huge influence from the Indians. The fact that India is ignored in world history is perhaps indicative of a eurocentric bias on history.

Unfortunately, there is much distortion of Indian history both by Marxist historians in India and by European scholars which denigrate its history and culture, suppress its achievements and shrink its history. Most notable of these distortions which will be looked at in this thread is

1) Aryan Invasion Theory
2) The dating of Buddha

I am creating this thread both to pay tribute to this great civilisation, which I have studied extensively for 10 years now. As well as to educate about its history which I promise is going to be controversial, outrageous, but definitely interesting.

Here is what you will learn in this thread

1) Asiatic origins of civilisation. Asia, in particular Indian civilisation was the dominant civilisation of the ancient world. It was the most culturally, technologically and scientifically advanced and its domination continued well into the 18th century before it came under colonial rule and was impoverished and its history systematically distorted. We will look at some of those deliberate distortions.

2) Indian civilisation colonised large parts of Europe with its Aryan-Vedic culture. This group is known as the Indo-European people. They share the same gods, myths, languages. Paganism is most likely of Indic-origin.

It is also likely that Indians seeded Egyptian civilisation, and if not seeded, definitely had a huge influence on it. It may have also had colonies in Sumeria and in South East Asia and possibly even in the Americas(the only indication of this is the apparance of a similar script on Easter Island as the Indus one)

The reason for this wide global footprint of the Indian civilisation was because it had achieved great success in seafaring and gained domination of the Indian ocean early in history. Its domination of the world was therefore equivalent of the British empire in the ancient world. However, there is no evidence that this was by conquest. It was most likely a cultural domination.

3) In terms of science, culture and technology India had reached modern-like levels of development in very ancient times. Much of philosophy, mathematics and science was developed in India. It had the words first proper urban civilisation, the first hospitals, the first universities, the first docks, the first underground sewage system, the first planned cities, the first philosophical traditions.

4) We will also look at the very controversial theory that Christianity is of Hindu-Buddhist origins and that Jesus may have travelled to India.

5) We will also look at how Indian civilisation has influenced the modern world and brought about the new-age movement. It looks like India is once again becoming a dominant force in shaping world civilisation.

This thread is a work in progress and I will add progressively to it. I do not want to rush it. So please bookmark it or subscribe to it or something.
I promise this will be a very informative thread.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]

1) Asiatic origins of civilisation. Asia, in particular Indian civilisation was the dominant civilisation of the ancient world. It was the most culturally, technologically and scientifically advanced and its domination continued well into the 18th century before it came under colonial rule and was impoverished and its history systematically distorted. We will look at some of those deliberate distortions.

wrong

sorry just making sure you get your facts right.


Im not going to read the rest if you cant even get the basics right?

asia is a continant.. Not a civiliation

sheesh...

[edit on 25-12-2009 by 13579]

lala edit edit..

We will also look at how Indian civilisation

Now this kinda thing gets my goat.. for a start there is no indian civilisation.. its the HUMAN civilisation.. in works of progress

you can how ever atribute parts of the human development to each given part of the planet..

I understand you wish to show others how "a part" of our planet has indeed helped the rest of fellow mankind in ways that are valuble but please use the right words.. or it just is silly

try "culture"

its a lot better than civilisation becuase the oppist to that would be BARBARRIC and that is not the case, tho yes some humans are mental.

and once again "asia" is NOT a culture is a LAND MASS people LIVE ON

inda is NOT asia it a PART of the land mass OF asia

just so you know


[edit on 25-12-2009 by 13579]

Now this kinda thing gets my goat.. for a start there is no indian civilisation.. its the HUMAN civilisation.. in works of progress

Uh...Pretty sure there can be multiple civilisations within the human race, homes.

Here is something just to whet the appetite on the civilisation of India, and its achivements in various areas.

en.wikipedia.org...

I will mention a few notables ones from ancient India, which are impressive because of how advanced they are for their timeframe. Although bear in mind, the dates for many these inventions/discoveries etc rely on the sheer anchor of dating of Buddha, which I will later bring into question.

Corrosion-resistant iron: The first corrosion-resistant iron was used to erect the Iron pillar of Delhi, which has withstood corrosion for over 1,600 years.[29]

Crucible steel: Perhaps as early as 300 BCE—although certainly by 200 CE—high quality steel was being produced in southern India also by what Europeans would later call the crucible technique.[33] In this system, high-purity wrought iron, charcoal, and glass were mixed in a crucible and heated until the iron melted and absorbed the carbon.[33] The first crucible steel was the wootz steel that originated in India before the beginning of the common era.[34] Archaeological evidence suggests that this manufacturing process was already in existence in South India well before the Christian era.[35][36]

Dentistry, dental drill, and dental surgery: The Indus Valley Civilization has yielded evidence of dentistry being practiced as far back as 7000 BCE.[37] This earliest form of dentistry involved curing tooth related disorders with bow drills operated, perhaps, by skilled bead craftsmen.[38] The reconstruction of this ancient form of dentistry showed that the methods used were reliable and effective.[39]

Dock (maritime): The world's first dock at Lothal (2400 BCE) was located away from the main current to avoid deposition of silt.[57] Modern oceanographers have observed that the Harappans must have possessed great knowledge relating to tides in order to build such a dock on the ever-shifting course of the Sabarmati, as well as exemplary hydrography and maritime engineering.[57] This was the earliest known dock found in the world, equipped to berth and service ships.[57]

Hospital: Brahmanic hospitals were established in what is now Sri Lanka as early as 431 BCE.[64] The Indian emperor Ashoka (ruled from 273 BCE to 232 BCE) himself established a chain of hospitals throughout the Mauryan empire (322–185 BCE) by 230 BCE.[64] One of the edicts of Ashoka (272—231 BCE) reads: "Everywhere King Piyadasi (Asoka) erected two kinds of hospitals, hospitals for people and hospitals for animals. Where there were no healing herbs for people and animals, he ordered that they be bought and planted."[65]

Oven: The earliest ovens were excavated at Balakot, a site of the Indus Valley Civilization. The ovens date back to the civilization's mature phase (c. 2500-1900 BCE).[60]

Plastic surgery: Plastic surgery was being carried out in India by 2000 BCE.[99] The system of punishment by deforming a miscreant's body may have led to an increase in demand for this practice.[99] The surgeon Sushruta contributed mainly to the field of Plastic and Cataract surgery.[100] The medical works of both Sushruta and Charak were translated into Arabic language during the Abbasid Caliphate (750 CE).[101] These translated Arabic works made their way into Europe via intermidiateries.[101] In Italy the Branca family of Sicily and Gaspare Tagliacozzi of Bologna became familiar with the techniques of Sushruta.[101]

Private bathroom and Toilet: By 2800 BCE, private bathrooms, located on the ground floor, were found in nearly all the houses of the Indus Valley Civilization.[107] The pottery pipes in walls allowed drainage of water and there was, in some case, provision of a crib for sitting.[107] The Indus Valley Civilization had some of the most advanced private lavatories in the world.[107] "Western-style" toilets were made from bricks using toilet seats made of wood on top.[107] The waste was then transmitted to drainage systems.[107]

Sewage collection and disposal systems: Large-scale sanitary sewer systems were in place in the Indus Valley by 2700 BCE.[107] The drains were 7–10 feet wide and 2 feet (0.61 m) below ground level.[107] The sewage was then led into cesspools, built at the intersection of two drains, which had stairs leading to them for periodic cleaning.[107] Plumbing using earthenware plumbing pipes with broad flanges for easy joining with asphalt to stop leaks was in place by 2700 BCE.[107]

Binary numbers: The modern system of binary numerals appears in the works of German polymath Gottfried Leibnitz during the 17th century. However, the first description of binary numbers is found in the chandaḥ-śāstra treatise of the Indian mathematician Pingala.[165][166]
Binomial coefficients: The Indian mathematician Pingala, by 300 BCE, had also managed to work with Binomial coefficients.[167][168]

Fibonacci numbers: In mathematics, the Fibonacci numbers are a sequence of numbers named after Leonardo of Pisa, known as Fibonacci.[189] Fibonacci's 1202 book Liber Abaci introduced the sequence to Western European mathematics, although the sequence had been previously described in Indian mathematics.[189] The so-called Fibonacci numbers were also known to the Indian mathematician Pingala by 300 BCE.[168]

Pythagorean theorem, statement of: Baudhayana (c. 8th century BCE) composed the Baudhayana Sulba Sutra, the best-known Sulba Sutra, which contains examples of simple Pythagorean triples, such as: (3,4,5), (5,12,13), (8,15,17), (7,24,25), and (12,35,37)[201] as well as a statement of the Pythagorean theorem for the sides of a square: "The rope which is stretched across the diagonal of a square produces an area double the size of the original square."[201]

Atomism: The earliest references to the concept of atoms date back to India in the 6th century BCE.[228][229] The Nyaya and Vaisheshika schools developed elaborate theories of how atoms combined into more complex objects (first in pairs, then trios of pairs).[230][231] The references to atoms in the West emerged a century later from Leucippus whose student, Democritus, systematized his views.

Formal language and formal grammar: The 4th century BCE Indian scholar Pāṇini is regarded as the forerunner to these modern linguistic fields.[240]

I think we can get a fairly good idea by looking at the above just how incredible the contributions by Indian civilisation is to civilisation. It is surprising, however, how this is not acknowledged in world history. The most interesting fact is how advanced the Indian civilisation is in 3000BCE. It easily outdoes the Sumerians and Egyptians by miles!

[edit on 25-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Whine Flu


not when dealing with the same race "homes" its called "culture"

Homes.

I think we can get a fairly good idea by looking at the above just how incredible the contributions by Indian civilisation is to civilisation.

read that again very slow "homes"

Indian civilisation is to civilisation.

The correct way is thus..

Indian Culture is to civilisation

removed a word ... as i felt it was not needed on reflection



[edit on 25-12-2009 by 13579]

and just for the record i will star you for at least higlighting the way other cultures have in fact contributed evn tho i do not think how you worded it was correct.

humble yes? critical yes? remember? ; )

[edit on 25-12-2009 by 13579]

[edit on 25-12-2009 by 13579]

reply to post by Whine Flu


guess thats you as you called me HOMES lol

tho im not sure on why it is you did call me homes is that some black ghetto thing? or some wacked out use of the english you happen to have stored in that brain of yours?

but back on topic ..

Indian culture is very much a mixed bunch .. more so because my teacher was indian !! very interesting stuff

I like the monkey god my self. kinda cool and its nice how a lot of culture from india ties into china

mind you they are more or less the same people apart from the tone of skin.. "culture wise"

In continuation of the previous post.

If we look at economic history, indians seem to have been the dominant civilisation of this planet right up to the 18th century. Even at the peak of the Roman empire and Islamic empire, the Indian subcontinent was still the richest, most prosperous and most advanced. Although it is clear that it began to decline with the Muslim invasions around 10AD

Let us look at some facts that establish the domination of the Indians.

Economic Historians, one notable one Angus Maddison, has been able to calculate based on looking at economic data in history the GDP of various regions in the world. Let us take a look at his estimates for the year 1AD to 10AD

Region / Country GDP (PPP)
mill. of International dollars GDP Share

1AD

percentage (%)
World 102 536 100

1.India 33 750 [6] 32.9%
2. Han China 26 820 26.2%
3. Roman Empire 22 000 21.5%
4. Western Europe 11 115 10.8%

10AD

World 116 790 100

1. India 33 750 [6] 28.9%
2. Song China 26 550 22.7%
3. Islamic Caliphate 21 640 [10] 18.5%
4. Africa 13 723 11.8%

en.wikipedia.org...(PPP)

In other words based on this data we can clearly see in terms of economy and production the Indians were the dominant civilisations of this planet in the ancient world, even at the height of the Roman and Islamic empire. It is Western-centric history that teaches us the Romans were the most powerful force on this planet in the past, but the evidence shows that Asia was the most powerful.

Maddisons data can be actually corroborated by further historical accounts. Even if we look at Roman accounts, we can see just how much of their treasury was being depleted by trade with India and how much Indian manufactured goods dominated the ancient world market:

The trade started by Eudoxus of Cyzicus in 130 BCE kept increasing, and according to Strabo (II.5.12.):[9]
“ "At any rate, when Gallus was prefect of Egypt, I accompanied him and ascended the Nile as far as Syene and the frontiers of Kingdom of Aksum (Ethiopia), and I learned that as many as one hundred and twenty vessels were sailing from Myos Hormos to India, whereas formerly, under the Ptolemies, only a very few ventured to undertake the voyage and to carry on traffic in Indian merchandise." ”

By the time of Augustus up to 120 ships were setting sail every year from Myos Hormos to India.[9] So much gold was used for this trade, and apparently recycled by the Kushan Empire (Kushans) for their own coinage, that Pliny the Elder (NH VI.101) complained about the drain of specie to India:[10]
“ "minimaque computatione miliens centena milia sestertium annis omnibus India et Seres et paeninsula illa imperio nostro adimunt: tanti nobis deliciae et feminae constant. quota enim portio ex illis ad deos, quaeso, iam vel ad inferos pertinet?"
"India, China and the Arabian peninsula take one hundred million sesterces from our empire per annum at a conservative estimate: that is what our luxuries and women cost us. For what percentage of these imports is intended for sacrifices to the gods or the spirits of the dead?" - Pliny, Historia Naturae 12.41.84.

en.wikipedia.org...


It is clear from this, at least to me, just how powerful the Indians were economically even during the Roman empire. If we now look at a look at India from 1BCE to 3000BCE we will find that ever since 3000BCE when Indian civilisation was at its highest level of urbanization - ironically even more urban than it is today - Indians have dominated commerce, technology, science and philosophy, literature around the world.

This might get you to rethink ancient history and revise it vis-a-vis India. It is clear India domained the ancient world. Perhaps there is a clue therein that if we want to understand the history of the ancient world, we need to understand the history of india.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Mate, as the other poster said, you're questioning semantics again. Calling it a civilisation maybe techincally incorrect, but it's still acceptable.

By any chance, are you an anthropology student...homes?

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Im sorry i do have to dissagree here..

In other words based on this data we can clearly see in terms of economy and production the Indians were the dominant civilisations of this planet in the ancient world, even at the height of the Roman and Islamic empire. It is Western-centric history that teaches us the Romans were the most powerful force on this planet in the past, but the evidence shows that Asia was the most powerful.

This is a basic flaw.. I guess your of indian desent? or something.. i dunno but hey if your not thats cool

The roman empire was only second to khan who did in fact have more land mass "powerfull" than the romans and he was not indian he was tho from the continant "land mass of" asia ..

You are trying to connect a group of people "indians" with a landmass?

i dont see how that works? if that was the case you could include china? as they are on the very same land mass as india

If you want to talk about a people PLEASE use the right way to go about it and dont use wiki to justify your own missunderstand of what it is your trying to say ?

yes the indian people were a supper "power" in there own right but do not confuse that with asia as a place.

Indians are a mix of people from all over asia not just "indian"..

were did gun powder come from? CHINA is that india? No its not but its sure as hell is in asia..

you see what im trying to say? im not saying that your "premiss" for making this thread is wrong nore do i want to butcher you about it.

But your telling me things that are not true in ways i dont feel happy reading because i like histroy its great and i love civiliastion. but when you confuse the word with the meaning or interpritation is as bad as saying

THE WHITE RACE

thats grammitcaly what you are saying and its wrong because there is no such thing as a WHITE race of humans OR black.

civiliations is the human progression of knowladge not some retarded way to lable a contentent..

culture is the word to describe how other people work

please understand that or this topic is pointless be for its got going and myself like to read what you are intrested in saying "or making a point of" its nice to remind others how other cultures have shaped "civiliation"...

one word, we both agreed on that being humble part remember in the other thread?

its ok to be wrong.. its how you accept it then it becomes a problem

Originally posted by 13579

1) Asiatic origins of civilisation. Asia, in particular Indian civilisation was the dominant civilisation of the ancient world. It was the most culturally, technologically and scientifically advanced and its domination continued well into the 18th century before it came under colonial rule and was impoverished and its history systematically distorted. We will look at some of those deliberate distortions.

wrong

sorry just making sure you get your facts right.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by 13579]

Gosh MAN, why don't you get your head out of where the sun don't shine, and consult any DICTIONARY... just so you know, it's a book that contains the official definition of words. Just because you happen to have a limited view of words, don't put that off on everyone else. When I run into people like you in person, you know, those who want to nit-pick on all the trivialities, I just tell them off and leave them wondering why they aren't liked very much

So, why don't you actually educate yourself by checking out your facts first, so you don't make a fool of yourself in this way.

Here is an actual dictionary entry for the word in question. For your education I emphasized the THIRD definition:

civ⋅i⋅li⋅za⋅tion   /ˌsɪvələˈzeɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [siv-uh-luh-zey-shuhn] Show IPA Use civilization in a Sentence See web results for civilization See images of civilization –noun
1. an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached.
2. those people or nations that have reached such a state.
3. any type of culture, society, etc., of a specific place, time, or group: Greek civilization.
4. the act or process of civilizing or being civilized: Rome's civilization of barbaric tribes was admirable.
5. cultural refinement; refinement of thought and cultural appreciation: The letters of Madame de Sévigné reveal her wit and civilization.
6. cities or populated areas in general, as opposed to unpopulated or wilderness areas: The plane crashed in the jungle, hundreds of miles from civilization.
7. modern comforts and conveniences, as made possible by science and technology: After a week in the woods, without television or even running water, the campers looked forward to civilization again.

reply to post by Whine Flu


no homes im not.

sorry

i just take a keen intrest in life and people