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We are losing our Freedoms and Obama is the cause

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posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Seiko
I really can't come up with any prime examples off hand myself.

But the again I can't come up with any his administration has returned to us as he said he would. I do remember him agreeing that the bush administration was bad for personal liberties, so through his inaction he is at least now guilty of being a co-conspirator.

But before bush, our rights were already being eroded, I guess we'll just have to lay blame back for many presidents. That does not mean that obama gets a pass as he has shown he's quite happy to play the same course as they.


Now i ask you, what rights and freedoms has he fought to return to us? What part of the constitution he swore to uphold has been restored under his watch?


Thanks Seiko

I agree with you 100% Obama has not kept his promises and provided a false impression of his intentions. I did the OP because I am tired hearing "Obama is taking away our freedoms", it is vague and consistently muddies tangible issues once interjected into political discussion. I disapprove of the ideological carpet bombing if there is little evidence to substantiate the claim - so I say how can someone consistently level the charge if they cannot even provide examples? Obama's "freedom destroying" seems to be an ideological weapon of words and concepts, not an expression of the truth or reality.

* What I forgot to include is that people tend to extend this particular generalization to
other "liberals" or to the basic gist of the ideal (leftish)...
As a human I disapprove because this alleged motive gets assigned to me, therefore many conversations are prefaced with offensive or defensive posturing. This is the functional problem with political discourse in general. This particular assumption could be illuminated with a simple list. Do liberal ideas restrict liberty in practice? "Obama is relentlessly limiting freedom because that is the goal of the left!" : Asserters seem to believe this, but cannot even present a small collection of evidentiary information in favor of this battle cry.



[edit on 25-12-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 26-12-2009 by Janky Red]




posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Granite
In California, we lost our infrastructure.
Roads and highways have potholes so bad it's dangerous to drive especilly at night.
The money for repairs is placed into the general via state and federal gas taxes on every gallon we buy. But the money redirected to prisons, police, and schools based upon union mandates from Democrate control of state government.
Have you seen Obama driving here lately?
No way!


I agree, the roads suck in Cali,,, my good friend flew off his bike going 70 cause of one,
he survived fairly unscathed...

However none of this is a matter of FREEDOM IMO, please explain how this impedes what you do, say, think, feel, express and believe -



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Granite
Obama is continue to divert the revenue on the Federal taxes on a gallon.
Until about election time...


Expand please -



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by Seiko
 


In the course of reading about WW2, I read about the Reubs predicting the end of America under that RED FDR. didn't happen did it?


Ya I know, I read an OLD article about the Beatles and the secret plot to spread the ideas of socialism, prior to their first tour here... I suspect this is the same thing that the OP
addresses, red FDR, etc

Janky red



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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The reason were losing our Freedoms is extremely complex, to pin it all on Obama is foolish and ignorant - even the most novice of conspiracy researchers should acknowledge that the president of a country doesn't run any part of it.

The real men in power want Obama to take the heat, it's exactly what he's there for.

It's all coming down now anyway, mark my words 2010 will be a year you will never forget.



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by Seiko
I really can't come up with any prime examples off hand myself.

But the again I can't come up with any his administration has returned to us as he said he would. I do remember him agreeing that the bush administration was bad for personal liberties, so through his inaction he is at least now guilty of being a co-conspirator.

But before bush, our rights were already being eroded, I guess we'll just have to lay blame back for many presidents. That does not mean that obama gets a pass as he has shown he's quite happy to play the same course as they.


Now i ask you, what rights and freedoms has he fought to return to us? What part of the constitution he swore to uphold has been restored under his watch?


Thanks Seiko

I agree with you 100% Obama has not kept his promises and provided a false impression of his intentions. I did the OP because I am tired hearing "Obama is taking away our freedoms", it is vague and consistently muddies tangible issues once interjected into political discussion. I disapprove of the ideological carpet bombing if there is little evidence to substantiate the claim - so I say how can someone consistently level the charge if they cannot even provide examples? Obama's "freedom destroying" seems to be an ideological weapon of words and concepts, not an expression of the truth or reality.


[edit on 25-12-2009 by Janky Red]


Because 'taking away your 'freedoms' , is casus belli for taking extreme action . As denoted by your president Bush . It is no wonder that such off the shelf , 'apply to any situation ' rhetoric is shifted and used at liberal discretion for the purposes of fomenting bellicose reactions in other situations that are suitable for other agendas . This is part of your true blowback.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by Drexl]



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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Government in all aspects has really never worked!! it was the Great American Experiment " right"? In all haste im as much in respect that obama is taking are rights slowly and surely, but in all aspect every single president has been corrupt, in the nature of this republic, have tried to stay to obey the Constitution, They have been doing it up since the last 100 years of America when we see the rise of progressiveness rise to effect, to slowly strip laws from its people , or to bind and make ones! In no haste that i dont agree with you!! Cause i totally see your point of thought! Government makes messes on country's And some times people have to rise up to stable it again and wait another 300 years to do it all over again!!, but i hope people, and government will get smart after if to be a second revolution in America! Cause i think the second would be much bloodier then the first!!!! ohhh and rid simpletons to thought that are the true morons!!

thanks for letting me indulge upon thought!!

take care



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by redek7
Government in all aspects has really never worked!! it was the Great American Experiment " right"? In all haste im as much in respect that obama is taking are rights slowly and surely, but in all aspect every single president has been corrupt, in the nature of this republic, have tried to stay to obey the Constitution, They have been doing it up since the last 100 years of America when we see the rise of progressiveness rise to effect, to slowly strip laws from its people , or to bind and make ones! In no haste that i dont agree with you!! Cause i totally see your point of thought! Government makes messes on country's And some times people have to rise up to stable it again and wait another 300 years to do it all over again!!, but i hope people, and government will get smart after if to be a second revolution in America! Cause i think the second would be much bloodier then the first!!!! ohhh and rid simpletons to thought that are the true morons!!

thanks for letting me indulge upon thought!!

take care


The very existence of freedom we experience is hinged upon the constant friction and undulation of this government. It is when motionless stability is achieved that freedom is truly lost, frozen into one paradigm, no room for any recourse or action indicate the death of freedom.

To destroy something you love in hopes of creating a more desirable version of this love is the act of spoilt, inexperienced and hopelessly naive child of sorts. This child cannot even convey the clear cut motives in believing this action will be of benefit. Unable to vividly grasp the impact in broad terms, focused on a mentally projected hologram that is a skewed judgement based entirely on the aforementioned, id inflated crusade. A pride filled religious gospel of myth and assertion, peppered with small doses of antidotal evidence. Crossed eye scissor run to score some viagra only because communication and adulthood is a bridge to far; plus getting some is more enjoyable



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Janky you complain about labels yet yourself have labeled people.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I know on one occasion you have alluded that I am "eligere"

--Edit for Post Script--

Overall Janky I really enjoy this type of post because it allows those that do make such ridiculous claims to either hide or show themselves for what they really are. Knee-jerk reactionaries that cannot provide a solid backing as to why they are saying what they are saying.



[edit on 26-12-2009 by ownbestenemy]



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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we have been losing our freedoms since 1868.
its just getting to the point where the rubber meets the road. and since everything was spelled out ... it just took 150 years to destroy.. but destroyed it is. since 911. we are no longer free in all senses of the word.



posted on Dec, 26 2009 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by Janky Red
 


Janky you complain about labels yet yourself have labeled people.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

I know on one occasion you have alluded that I am "eligere"

--Edit for Post Script--

Overall Janky I really enjoy this type of post because it allows those that do make such ridiculous claims to either hide or show themselves for what they really are. Knee-jerk reactionaries that cannot provide a solid backing as to why they are saying what they are saying.



[edit on 26-12-2009 by ownbestenemy]


I am no angel
I am constantly trying to reform my wicked ways, my biggest mistake is telegraphing
my true feelings... I assume I slapped that tag upon you because of the views you convey, I can't remember...

p;ease expand on your last sentence and add to the list please



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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So guys wheres the tangible list?

We have healthcare mandates so far...
Yet to be enacted and not to mention Obama has been fairly hands off in this process,
which I do not like might I add. He wants it to happen, he should throw his pence in and own it.

So lets get this list going or find a fresh new generalization, I will find some of my own



posted on Dec, 28 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Federal agents have lost to freedom to harass and jail medicinal marijuana dispensers. So maybe one person's loss of freedom is another's gain.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 03:49 AM
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It's been a while since this thread began, but I have one for the list... I have now lost my right to choose not to have health insurance if I decide I can't spare another expense regardless of how 'inexpensive' they make it. Is it too late to count me?

edit to add:




We have healthcare mandates so far... Yet to be enacted and not to mention Obama has been fairly hands off in this process


sure didn't stay that way, did he...


[edit on 29-3-2010 by Haiku]



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by Janky Red
So guys wheres the tangible list?

We have healthcare mandates so far...
Yet to be enacted and not to mention Obama has been fairly hands off in this process,
which I do not like might I add. He wants it to happen, he should throw his pence in and own it.

So lets get this list going or find a fresh new generalization, I will find some of my own




How's about the patriot act that he stood against before the election and then when it was his power changed his mind. Do you think that bill takes away freedom? And just because it came in under Bush does not excuse the current administration from keeping it going.



But let me guess just like every other time you will make a one line post attacking and back up what you say with nothing am I right again?



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 04:10 AM
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I see threads like this and I just have to shudder

how can folks be so naive???

Obama is not the cause of this
and he sure as hell ain't the answer to it either
he's just another puppet that followed the
last puppet that followed the last, etc...

The tactics of the MIL IND COMP

find the dirt, threaten to use the dirt,
then cover you with it when done
and repeat as necessary



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
I see threads like this and I just have to shudder

how can folks be so naive???

Obama is not the cause of this
and he sure as hell ain't the answer to it either
he's just another puppet that followed the
last puppet that followed the last, etc...

The tactics of the MIL IND COMP

find the dirt, threaten to use the dirt,
then cover you with it when done
and repeat as necessary




You might very well be right. I think we are actually getting ruled by some sort of oligarchy right now. And they have learned how to manipulate our system. We need to find the holes and then fill them.



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by Subjective Truth

Originally posted by Janky Red
So guys wheres the tangible list?

We have healthcare mandates so far...
Yet to be enacted and not to mention Obama has been fairly hands off in this process,
which I do not like might I add. He wants it to happen, he should throw his pence in and own it.

So lets get this list going or find a fresh new generalization, I will find some of my own




How's about the patriot act that he stood against before the election and then when it was his power changed his mind. Do you think that bill takes away freedom? And just because it came in under Bush does not excuse the current administration from keeping it going.



But let me guess just like every other time you will make a one line post attacking and back up what you say with nothing am I right again?


the point of this thread was to understand why the reaction to Obama is the way it is. Bush set a bar, Obama maintained that bar. He has not effected the status quo since going into office. That the entire conservative voting block goes nuts when this alleged socialist,
in fact aligns with industry in his healthcare bill. A socialist does not do that, that is exactly the opposite of what a socialist would do.

So

1. you guys have made the whole thing so flowery I can't tell what is what

2. I assume the majority of people who are so very against Obama were OK with the
bar of status quo that was set. I assume this because the very people who are crying
revolution are very people who watched FOX for eight years and rooted on the current status quo that Obama maintains.

Yet you characterize what Obama does as many steps too far or subtractive. We have both established that Obama is just continuing on Bush. The question is, why does the voting block who presumably liked Bush policies (voted him in TWICE), now all of a sudden willing to kill in order to repeal Bush policies?

This is where the media comes in... They tell you progressives, who carry on bush policies
are coming to kill you. The last Vice president was on Reagan Staff,
Ronald Reagan himself approved of old boy chenny. Fox approved of Chenny and his policies. Meanwhile Obama carries on Chennys policies and NOW FOX GETS FURIOUS.

My hang is much more basic than yours,

I am skeptical as to the validity source of your anger, in truths sense.

I believe you are more anger because of what you have been told.
The very News agency that sold Bush's policies, now incites anger over the same policies with the same group of people who voted for the policies in the first place.
A great deal of your tea baggers elected the officials who have put these policies in place. Instead of coming to "progressives" and saying,"

"hey we do not like what our guy did, could you change it?"

"You say (Beck, Palin, O'reily, ATS) you guys are Fascists trying to destroy America"

I say, "you guys voted for all this crap, Obama hasn't changed crap all from when you guys were in office".

Now you want to vote in the same group of people who advocated for these policies
in the past.

So you want to know where I coming from there it is.

Obama is a shame and what you guys are doing is a shame.

I don't like Obamas policies and I didn't like Bush's, they are the same.
Progressives did not vote for Bush because of his policies, Obama is
exactly what you guys have voted for in the past. Beck, O'reily, Rush -
all of them supported these policies before, now they admonish the next guy
for maintaining what they supported for years.

So no you guys are listening to the guys who paved the road with these policies.
They created the public support for these things and you are getting your vigor
from them. I really hope you are smart enough to understand this.

You are being spurred on by the guys who set these policies in place.

The candidates and tea parties leaders are the people who voted for this
current status quo.

So my friend if you are unhappy, why do you want to put these same people, same ideas back into office?

The leaders of this movement hide behind the patriot rhetoric and attract you all with stories, but only want the same thing. Remember who is acting like the president before him? These people drove the previous presidents agenda.

Can you name one thing you can't do now that you could before Obama?

You assume I defending Obama, I am in fact trying to excoriate the people who lead
the POPULAR tea party crowd. Obama is the status quo Glenn Beck helped set into place with Bush. So it is very clear that Beck is not a friend of liberty any more than
Obama or Bush. So why would Glenn Beck, a very intelligent man support policies
and then call the policies he supported Fascist?

You are being asked to take sides subjective truth, but you could go to the middle too, that is an option.

I see it and your movement the same as I see Obama, because when your patriots from the pool of politician hit office, they will only do what the last patriot did and what Obama did.

There is not a lick of difference

Dick Army led the charge towards these policies, now he is running against them.
Millions of people, saying "OK Dick, do it again!"

I challenge all of you because you are running right back to where you came from.

I have yet to see any change, but I already know I do not like what your pool
of career politicians. I am in fact protesting both of you, but your "side"
is the one I truly fear because you do not see how this is playing out.
You are way too overloaded to see that you are going to get status quo
all the same. Bush=Obama=Mccain=Palin=Teaparty= Progressives= Glenn Beck....

I really wish you would step back, if YOU personally want to change things
you need to get your mind out of the frantic stage. Your freedom bar is at the same
reading it has been for years.

Calm down and THINK,

I can't think with " Obamas a Red Communist, Obama's a corporatist, etc... "

Fox has made both charges, tea parties have signs for both...

Subjective Truth - those philosophies are Polar opposites

and his policies are Neoconservative, remember BUSH?

We all need to unite, but you are so afraid of what the "progressives" are doing.
I am afraid you are going to elect in a bunch of people who set the current
"progressive" status quo.

the noise you are engaged in is not productive

look above, look what the movement is based upon people wise.

Your ideas will be rendered and distilled by your political pool once elected
and they will produce BUSH, OBAMA results.

So all of you who really want change need to disengage from this story, sever your old ties and start proposing new ideas. Revolution is based on ideas, you guys talk the same old ideas, Obama talks the same old ideas.

You my friend are wasting your energy on the outrage, you should be planning and thinking about how to fix the mess in the government before you get in there.

You want constitution: which parts are being neglected?

which parts are ok?

Are you gonna end the war?

Are you gonna repeal NAFTA?

On and On

You guys don't even find the time to discuss this, then you forget that YOU
will not be the guy going to Washington.

do you know what your are voting for?

I don't hear anything besides the constitution,

how are you going to use the constitution to fix this mess?

so if you are a patriot which it seem you are-

you should dedicate your energy to ideas that you can put into action and plan
share those well thought out ideas and the nation will be better for it.

I hope you read this well, and I hope I wrote this as clear as I intended to.

I am not your enemy, Obama is not your enemy, Bush is not your enemy - your enemy is this attitude that you dip into, it is my enemy too.,

You plan a revolution, you need new ideas or you are just changing the paint

reaction will make the state retract, then your really will lose freedom, something you have right now will be gone.

Plan, think, organize with something tangible, solid

Slaughtering the government will not change the disfunction of the government





[edit on 29-3-2010 by Janky Red]



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by Subjective Truth

Originally posted by boondock-saint
I see threads like this and I just have to shudder

how can folks be so naive???

Obama is not the cause of this
and he sure as hell ain't the answer to it either
he's just another puppet that followed the
last puppet that followed the last, etc...

The tactics of the MIL IND COMP

find the dirt, threaten to use the dirt,
then cover you with it when done
and repeat as necessary




You might very well be right. I think we are actually getting ruled by some sort of oligarchy right now. And they have learned how to manipulate our system. We need to find the holes and then fill them.


Yes guys...

That is why I made this thread -

He is no different


the alternative is no different

and YES we do need to find the holes, figure out whats good and whats broke
first, then fill it in.

We must also make these ideas concrete so that the politicians of the future REALLY understand our will.


Vague free market and weak Healthcare bills alike

what is a freemarket Exactly?

what will actual lower cost of healthcare without giving up the ground we currently have?

at what point does war not make sense economically?

Are chinese goods worth the cost to our middle class?

fill it in



posted on Mar, 29 2010 @ 06:57 AM
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2. I assume the majority of people who are so very against Obama were OK with the bar of status quo that was set. I assume this because the very people who are crying revolution are very people who watched FOX for eight years and rooted on the current status quo that Obama maintains.



To Sir, with love.

Assumption is the mother of all foul-ups ......





Can you name one thing you can't do now that you could before Obama?


Again, I can no longer choose not to have health coverage without being federally fined. Maybe some argue you still have the right to choose, let me clarify, When there is punitive action threatened, the act which provoked it is not a right, it is considered a crime.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Haiku]



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