---i know --where did they come up with the big bang???

India is a hell hole for most people, because of there religion that is false as far as i am concerned. No such thing as karma, and the fact that blair has murdered a million people and nothing happens to him,shows there is no such thing as karma. People in india, should understand positive thinking rubbish is just that.

It is posts like these where I can't help myself but be critical!

Actually India is not a Hindu country, it is a secular country and a capitalist country. Sure, it is a hell-hole for most people living in India due to rampant povery, corruption and illiteracy(To be fair there is also a very lage middle class population there which have a higher standard of life) but that is actually a modern phenomenon brought about by colonailism, which interestingly enough was by Christian countries.

Prior to colonialism India was the richest, most developed country in the world. You can easily look at economic statistics from premodern times to see that India was a leading country in all areas of civilisation: production technology, urban life, philosophy, science and mathematics. In ancient times, when India was most Hindu or Buddhist, it was incredibly developed and was a high centre of learning and philosophy in the world.

I have to take strong objection to you pinning down the cause of suffering on a religion, because that would be very hypocritical, considering that Christianity has a history of being the most genocidal religion on this planet and the most backwards. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burning, colonialism and genoicide is a major part of this religion. So as a Christian you have no right to point fingers at another religions, especially when relatively they have a far more peaceful and enlightened history.

Your incoherent speculation doesn't prove anything about the thinking patterns of non-believers. The only shallow thinking that is going on, is believing that somebody thoughtfully created this entire existence and willed it to be. Nobody can say with entire certainty that they know how existence started. If your God made everything, who made him/her/it? It's very contradictory to say that something can't come from nothing, yet to say that God created it.

Originally posted by itsawild1
1--ok non-believers---lets say there was a big bang---oh wait--without fuel [elements] how can you have a big bang???

Who's to say that there were no elements prior to the big bang?

so why is it so wrong to believe that god always was and always will be???

Yep, I shouldve suspected that somehow this would be turned into a god thing

If god existed, then something must have created him too, well according to your fundamentalistic ramblings he shouldnt exist as something cant exist from nothing, therefore you are an extremely shallow thinker

i did not say god created all--if you read i said ---matter always existed--time always existed--a life force always existed--this life force-must have a name-why not god---

Originally posted by itsawild1
i did not say god created all--if you read i said ---matter always existed--time always existed--a life force always existed--this life force-must have a name-why not god---

But you still contradicted your entire first post as you clearly state that you cannot have something from nothing, previous to that sentence. God is a something, therefore something must have created him. He may of always existed but as you claim nothing can exist as you need something, it kind of rules out your later statement

It seems like more of a dig at people who dont believe in god more than anything else



[edit on 25/12/2009 by OzWeatherman]

Since a thing such as "Life force" would require there to be life in the first place in order to create it. Unless you consider it to be an actual form of energy in which case it had to be transformed from one type of energy to an another (this so called "life force") when the first life forms appeared... so how exactly would it have always existed? Oh, and matter always existing? Um... sorry that's a tough pill to swallow... The big bang theory may not be completely right (yet)... but it is a hell of a lot better theory than anything religion, metaphysics and pseudoscience can try to spin together.

why is it so wrong to believe that god always was and always will be???

Because the only reason you insist on this GOD is because your entire worldview and justification for being, your way of life, is predicated on the existence of this GOD, the one you were indoctrinated with as a child and never questioned, or decided to believe because the fairy tales absolve you of guilt and responsibility for your poor behavior, self-control, and intellect. It is wrong because you and people like you can't be reasoned with, because you are forbidden by your faith to consider ALL POSSIBLE TRUTHS based on EVIDENCE, of which there is none for your GOD. That is a shallow thinker.

Why ask this question, but to further proselytize your ignorance with phony scientific crap like "nothing never existed" and "time is forever". Why bother with science if GOD has all the answers? The world is still flat, isn't it?

The inability of Matter to be created or destroyed comes from Man's inability to do either. If Man is able to one day create or destroy matter, that rule will fall to the wayside, as will your entire argument.

We are getting closer to that day.

Google M-theory.

Originally posted by cosmicunderstanding
Your incoherent speculation doesn't prove anything about the thinking patterns of non-believers. The only shallow thinking that is going on, is believing that somebody thoughtfully created this entire existence and willed it to be. Nobody can say with entire certainty that they know how existence started. If your God made everything, who made him/her/it? It's very contradictory to say that something can't come from nothing, yet to say that God created it.

I cannot make the conclusion that nonbelief=shallow thinking. The Bible says the evidence is all around us that a Creator exists, so people are without excuse. Further it says that God the creator alone is self-existent, from everlasting to everlasting, i.e. not contingent/created and outside the bounds of time. In the modern age, this concept should be easier to contemplate intellectually than it was in the pre-computer/ATS age. However, there is absolutely no statement whatsoever in the Bible that equates belief with intellect. Therefore, if one wanted to provide evidence that nonbelievers are the most intelligent persons on the planet, I would say the Bible could not be used to refute it.

matter cannot live

By your own logic you are brain-dead.

Originally posted by John_Brown

why is it so wrong to believe that god always was and always will be???

Because the only reason you insist on this GOD is because your entire worldview and justification for being, your way of life, is predicated on the existence of this GOD, the one you were indoctrinated with as a child and never questioned, or decided to believe because the fairy tales absolve you of guilt and responsibility for your poor behavior, self-control, and intellect. It is wrong because you and people like you can't be reasoned with, because you are forbidden by your faith to consider ALL POSSIBLE TRUTHS based on EVIDENCE, of which there is none for your GOD. That is a shallow thinker.

This, my friend, is merely a supposition without basis on your part regarding the intimacies and depths of the lives and minds of others. How is it that you are so certain in your beliefs about how your fellow human beings arrive at their conclusions?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

India is a hell hole for most people, because of there religion that is false as far as i am concerned. No such thing as karma, and the fact that blair has murdered a million people and nothing happens to him,shows there is no such thing as karma. People in india, should understand positive thinking rubbish is just that.

It is posts like these where I can't help myself but be critical!

Actually India is not a Hindu country, it is a secular country and a capitalist country. Sure, it is a hell-hole for most people living in India due to rampant povery, corruption and illiteracy(To be fair there is also a very lage middle class population there which have a higher standard of life) but that is actually a modern phenomenon brought about by colonailism, which interestingly enough was by Christian countries.

Prior to colonialism India was the richest, most developed country in the world. You can easily look at economic statistics from premodern times to see that India was a leading country in all areas of civilisation: production technology, urban life, philosophy, science and mathematics. In ancient times, when India was most Hindu or Buddhist, it was incredibly developed and was a high centre of learning and philosophy in the world.

I have to take strong objection to you pinning down the cause of suffering on a religion, because that would be very hypocritical, considering that Christianity has a history of being the most genocidal religion on this planet and the most backwards. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burning, colonialism and genoicide is a major part of this religion. So as a Christian you have no right to point fingers at another religions, especially when relatively they have a far more peaceful and enlightened history.

LOL! That is funny! I lived 3 months in India, in a village in Andhra Pradesh, and I can tell you certainly that India is ANYTHING but secular. Everywhere throughout the country you not only hear the early-morning chants of Hindu prayers ringing through the countryside, but you also hear the Catholic singers in the local church. And these are broadcast through big speakers so that everyone can hear them.

No, India is anything but secular. The people, culture, and religion are pervasive everywhere you look. After all, where do you think the word India comes from?

The word "India" came from Indus (the river), which came from Sindhu (river system), and Sindhu was mispronounced as "Hindu" by Persian explorers as they described the people, their culture, and their river. So, the river and culture, including the religion, are essentially one, being highly intermingled.

As a none believer i find most if not all religions repulsive, their teachings are nothing short of evil, and self preserving. I have done my share of study on most religion, mainly Christianity, I was once on the verge of becoming a Christian. But when you start reading passages like insisting on people be stoned to death for working on the Sabbath, and stoning people because they are gay, or stoning ones own children because they are disobedient, Or, taking innocent people as your own slaves, and killing innocent men women and children because they don't believe in your god. These things are all in the bible and if the bible is the perfect word of your god, then you have no right to contradict it nor change what it says, not do you have the right to change its meaning, as its meaning is perfectly clear, The word of God.

Now i am neither intelligent nor IMO narrow minded, I have studied Astronomy, Maths, and many others sciences, and subjects, to help me have a greater understanding of my world, and others i share it with, including he planet and other creatures. Studying theology was and is an important part of the learning curve to have an understanding of both sides of the coin, so to speak. Thing is i would never once insist on anyone believing in what i believe, and would never insult anyone for their individual beliefs. I do however find it highly annoying when most religious types seem to think they have the right to do that to me and others whom are proud none believers in any kind of religion. And to be honest with the majority of people i have come across on ATS this is a pretty silly thing to do here to. again IMO.