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Woman jumps barrier, knocks down pope at Christmas Eve mass, Vatican says

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posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by eradown
Then the Stalinists and khmer Rouge out did all the atrocities the Catholic church comitted. I am sure they will also be out done. I agree with you if the Pope threatened to brandish a gun at you while you were delivering the mail you would have every right to tackle him. Otherwise all the world 's Catholics should fear you if you wish to hold this Pope accountable for all Catholic misdeeds. If your willing to violently assault a distinguished old man then I do not want to know what you would do to the average Catholic.


Just to be clear. While I still do not condone tackling such a frail victim. I am specifically picking on this man because of what he himself is responsible for. There is also that pesky HEAD OF THE CHURCH thing that makes him a representative of Catholicism to the world. You know pope is the big job at the top right?




posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:25 PM
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Okay, seriously? Here's my estimation of what went down.

As Doc pointed out, it was invitation only. You don't just "show up" at the Basilica for service, you actually have to get clearance and everything.

So what happened? Obviously security had no problems with her. This is not a failure of security, because, honestly? I doubt that there is anything "wrong" with this woman.

What I think happened is that she is a very devoted Catholic, and became extremely impassioned and emotional on sight of the pope, and let the barrier to try to kiss his hand or embrace him or even just touch him, whatever. As you can see, the pope's security caught her, but she managed to take the old fellow down, probably by grabbing at him as she was taken down.

Aside from the fact he's probably pretty fragile at his age, I don't see any actual harm done. Odds are the woman will be kept for a while, questioned and have her details taken, and she'll be released, feeling terribly embarrassed about the whole thing.

I'm really not seeing how this is subject for much argument - the pope got glomped by a big fan. The vatican doesn't think it's a big deal, and I don't think we really should, either.

I doubt she'll get an invitation for easter, though.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by eradown
Then the Stalinists and khmer Rouge out did all the atrocities the Catholic church comitted. I am sure they will also be out done. I agree with you if the Pope threatened to brandish a gun at you while you were delivering the mail you would have every right to tackle him. Otherwise all the world 's Catholics should fear you if you wish to hold this Pope accountable for all Catholic misdeeds. If your willing to violently assault a distinguished old man then I do not want to know what you would do to the average Catholic.


Just to be clear. While I still do not condone tackling such a frail victim. I am specifically picking on this man because of what he himself is responsible for. There is also that pesky HEAD OF THE CHURCH thing that makes him a representative of Catholicism to the world. You know pope is the big job at the top right?


Really. He clearly means nothing to most of the posters here. Is this envy? I assure you the world's Catholics will not be impressed by people who use violent shrews to do their dirty work. If he was so important the poor , deluded, chic who attacked him would be worried about her skin. This is more of the king must die balderdash. Those who wish to replace the Pope are thugs.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by eradown]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by eradown
 


I appreciate the attempt to villify me. Really I do.

However, I must say to you as well, I really wish ATS would put up a *PHEWWW!!! right over his head* emoticon.
You completely misunderstand my entire stance. No, I would wish no harm on the "average catholic"... (
do you consider the Pope to be "above average" as a human?)

The point here is that I distinguish the Pope not because of his "spirituality" (in reality I would almost wager the farm that he has none) but because of his status as a global elitist!

Everything this man does and stands for flies IN THE FACE OF WHY JESUS DIED!!!!
EVERYTHING!

And Christians lap it up and apologize that some woman took her opportunity to "tackle" the dude.

As I said, I have seen instances in which an old man DESERVED to be tackled.

And this man does as well.

He sells snake oil.

The entire Catholic faith is based upon oppresion.

"Beware false prophets."
Good advice.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 
There are worse things than snake oil. Banks which can justify impovershing a wealthy country and people who got away with murdering a hundred million people come to mind. It is funny how people can justify attempted murder. Pope benedict is an old man; any fall could put him in the grave. If you can justify what was done to him you can justify hurting everyone alive today. Every human alive has many violent ancestors.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 12:02 AM
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Yeah, Born Catholic here. Wanted to explain my distaste of the whole vatican world in my opinion. I like what they do but they have way too much power. Not a fan of vatican
The pope on the other hand is not holy imo. no man is on earth. he's just a guy.

I'll give as much respect as I can to him. certianly.
On the other hand

why is there always ladies in red trying to tackle this guy? what are the odds? is this a stunt?



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by eradown
 


Ah, there you go.
Now you are starting to see it my way.

Pope...banker...no difference.
There are old bankers as well you know.
Their age doesn't mean that they won't sell you down the river in a heartbeat.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by eradown
Really. He clearly means nothing to most of the posters here. Is this envy?


Is what envy? That I have an opinion of the pope when most ATS members do not? I fail to see the logic.


I assure you the world's Catholics will not be impressed by people who use violent shrews to do their dirty work.


I believe I have been quite clear in my stance AGAINST the violence.


If he was so important the poor , deluded, chic who attacked him would be worried about her skin.


Huh? If he was really important, he could burn her?


This is more of the king must die balderdash. Those who wish to replace the Pope are thugs.


I am not sure what you mean by 'this.' If you mean the woman, you are speculating. If you mean me, you are wrong. My problem is with people that advocate the protection of serial child rapists and even offer them continued venues through which to practice this behavior. If I were to round up a few of the tens of thousands of victims of Catholic Priests, would you tell them how unimportant he was? How about if it were just the kids raped by priests that this pope was aware of and protected? Would you like to tell them how unimportant he is?



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 12:53 AM
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And with that said, I wish you all a Merry Christmas!

And not to sound sarcastic, I really mean that.
This is a good time of the year. We get to give eachother crap and tell ourselves that we are celebrating the birth of the son of man.

He'd be proud.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 
It is up to the law to punish people not up to churches. Spare me the high and mighty indignation against Catholics not a single religion is pure of violence or depravity. The Athiestic communists proved that violence and depravity are part of human nature. They manged to commit more murder and rape than conventional religion.Another thing if one of the many angry people out there attacked a banker with the same zeal the girl you are defending attacked the Pope she and all her loved ones would be punished atrociously.

Yes, at one time the Catholic church would have burned an attacker at the stake. To some extent the fact that any little nobody can do what that bold thing has done is a sign of how weak the church has become. At least that girl and all who want to follow in her footsteps had better hope. They had better hope the Catholic church does not have underhanded methods of despensing retribution. It is illogical to think that justyfying a violent act against someone else is not the same thing as condoning violence.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by Lillydale
 
It is up to the law to punish people not up to churches.


I did not say my problem was lack of punishment. I clearly stated my problem was the protection of and provision of venues in which to further exploit. This pope made that happen. It may not be his job to report it to authorities (morally repugnant as that is but you defend it anyway) but is it in any way good practice to just move an offending priest to a new playground?


Spare me the high and mighty indignation against Catholics not a single religion is pure of violence or depravity.


I never claimed they were. Do you see me preaching the good of any particular religion? Check the OP. This is not about some Unitarian being tackled. I believe the Pope belongs to a specific religion does he not? This thread is about him.


The Athiestic communists proved that violence and depravity are part of human nature. They manged to commit more murder and rape than conventional religion.


I am sure that is debatable but not for me. I do not care in the context of THIS THREAD. Start a thread about it if you like and perhaps I will stop by.


Another thing if one of the many angry people out there attacked a banker with the same zeal the girl you are defending attacked the Pope she and all her loved ones would be punished atrociously.


Is this the third time or the fourth time?

I AM NOT DEFENDING A VIOLENT ATTACK ON AN OLD MAN. I AM NOT DEFENDING WHAT THIS WOMAN DID. I have said that more than enough times now that there is no reason I should even have to argue it again.

What is this about bankers? Am I protecting bankers? Is there a bank pope that represents all banking anyway? Who is he? Maybe I want to tackle him myself.


Yes, at one time the Catholic church would have burned an attacker at the stake.


Just like Jesus would have.


To some extent the fact that any little nobody can do what that bold thing has done is a sign of how weak the church has become.


Weak? The only people she seemed to hurt are ATS members She was stopped, no? The pope is ok, no? They squashed it fast and easily, no? Would more violence have seemed less weak to you?


At least that girl and all who want to follow in her footsteps had better hope. They had better hope the Catholic church does not have underhanded methods of despensing retribution.


You mean like Jesus did?


It is illogical to think that justyfying a violent act against someone else is not the same thing as condoning violence.



I never justified it. I simply provided an explanation, a reason, a premise, an idea as to why, a 'maybe cuz.' I never justified it though. This is funny coming from someone who does seem to be justifying how the pope handled child rapists though.

It is up to the law to punish people not up to churches.


[edit on 12/25/09 by Lillydale]



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 
It's silly to bring up Jesus while attacking Catholicism or any other form of Christianity. For every action there is an eqaul opposite reaction. The Catholic church has fought many enemies. Consider what they were before they became Christian, most people knowing this would not violently attack the upper hiarchy of that church. Remember that girl in your prayers, she will need them.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by Lillydale
 
It's silly to bring up Jesus while attacking Catholicism or any other form of Christianity.


You are right. What was I thinking? It is silly for me to draw any connection between any form of Christianity and Christ.


For every action there is an eqaul opposite reaction. The Catholic church has fought many enemies.


So it is ok to rape children? I do not get what you are saying?


Consider what they were before they became Christian, most people knowing this would not violently attack the upper hiarchy of that church.


Most people in general would not do such a thing. As you would notice, she is hardly 'most people.'


Remember that girl in your prayers, she will need them.



It is a nice gesture but I stopped asking my imaginary friends for favors several years back.

I am sorry that it seems so difficult to understand that there is justifiable anger toward the church, the leaders of the church, and that sweet little old Hitler Youth personally but there really are good reasons. You may not agree that tackling the man is any response but that may not be the reason she did it anyway. The point is, the man has not exactly lead a pristine life. The church has hardly lead a pristine life. You would be amazed at what covering up for and providing refuge as well as new trolling ground to the men that forced sex upon tens of thousands of children across the planet just that we know of would bring up in someone. I am sorry you do not see that as the same despicable offense that I do.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by Lillydale
 


You mean like Jesus did?


It is illogical to think that justyfying a violent act against someone else is not the same thing as condoning violence.



[edit on 12/25/09 by Lillydale]


Okay , if I do not think a whole bunch people should be punished for the sins of a few I support child molesting. What a repulsive argument! Don't count on being able to steal Catholic children with such logic.You brought the argument down to a low level. I can't go lower than you. I don't accuse people I do not know of condoning child molestation. I also don't use a stupid regional accents to mock people I have never heard speak. Winning an argument with a stranger is not that important to me. Have a Merry Christmas!



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 02:46 AM
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I am glad this happen (and what a surprise i am catholic or something like that but I just don't love and respect church as institution)

This guy is just like other few hundreds of thiefs and murderers called popes

Do anybody link this with Berlusconi maybe Italians show to "untouchables" that they are at least immortals ?



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by BigfootNZ
 


I couldn't say it any better. Well done mate.

The church in Poland almost seems to run it. Catechism classes in school, crosses in school and mass hysteria about Muslims etc. HUGE amount of money spent on building concrete buildings to GOD, God who could care less about concrete, but don't try telling this to the masses here.

Here is an example of ONE (there is more going on here) project which shocked the hell out of me when I checked up on its cost. Here is a GOOGLE translation which I LOVE. I will tell in a second why. Maybe you will catch it first.




Temple of Providence ready before Euro 2012
Temple of Providence ready before the Euro 2012 by

Press Releases Center of Divine Providence -

The faithful snack nearly 5.5 million zł gathered this year for the construction of the Center of Divine Providence. The first Mass to be held before the Euro 2012 championships. Throughout Poland, the collection takes the victims to build a huge house in Warsaw Wilanow. So far, the work absorbed nearly 105 million zł. - We do not know what the amount of closed construction. Constantly changing costs of construction materials - says Sylvia-Prawecka Kabbalah Center of Divine Providence. Before budowlańcami most important task: assembly of structural elements of the dome of the temple. The building in the rough, to be ready by the end of next year. Then he will continue the work of decorating. The early believers will be able to visit the temple before Euro 2012.


"The faithful snack" the translation should have been the "The faithful donated"

" the collection takes the victims to build a huge house" should be "The collection from donors to build the huge temple"



Yes, so far ~$40 million has gone to build this. "So far" is the operating phrase here. The thing is a ugly bunker. Look....

Temple

and the poor have fewer and fewer places to go. I saw several that were closed down. Homeless complaining that they need to go further and further away to find help. This is not a rich country like Germany, YET there is money for stuff like this.

And here is the Most Powerful Priest in Poland. Untouchable could be said, if one followed the news in Poland. Why? In short because he owns (that is correct he owns it in the name of the church of course) a Radio Station which if it says the right things can make of break a politicians career and whether he is elected. He has insulted plenty of powerful people and ...... NOTHING. He is still on top.

news.bbc.co.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Rydzyk

My description here is not anti-Christ. He had the Real Message, but not the guys in golden dresses and Cone Caps. I pray to him at times but I do not need to be in concret bunkers to do this. A small cave might be much better for this.

Well That Is My World View on this
Enjoy



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 03:40 AM
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Boy, I need to laugh at all the religious hate in this post. You all sound like you all have enough pompous ass in you to fill up ten Vatican cities.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by DrHammondStoat
 


Maybe she was abused by a Protestant minister. According to the companies (Church Mutual, GuideOne and Brotherhood Mutual) that insure 165,495 of the roughly 224,000 white Protestant churches, they have reported an average of 260 abuse cases a year. That's well over the number of cases reported by the Catholic Church and doesn't include nearly 60,000 additional white churches not covered by those companies and includes none of the black Protestant churches.

Three of those companies provided statistics to the Associated Press in 2007 but it never seemed to make it to the mainstream media.

Go ahead and kick the Catholic Church while it's down. They have committed atrocities that would make God throw up. However, they are the sole large scale religious organization that has finally and fully disclosed its' past. Several priests were sent to jail and killed while there.

If you want to sniff out a real conspiracy, find out why the press isn't reporting abuse in other denominations.

EDIT: Source - InsuranceJournal.com

[edit on 25-12-2009 by daslobo]



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by factbeforefiction
reply to post by ROBL240
 


Most likely just another psycho atheist like we see everyday here on ATS.


Yep, you see all the rubbish put out there about the church, someone was going to do something someday.

After italian pm now the pope, what is going on in italy.



posted on Dec, 25 2009 @ 04:02 AM
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If you want to sniff out a real conspiracy, find out why the press isn't reporting abuse in other denominations.


I agree. Remember who controls the Big Presses and Big TV.

As for other denominations. I suspect stories on them do not sell as well.

But since Catholic Church is



they are the sole large scale religious organization


it has a HUGE responsibility and obligation to clean up its problems which unfortunately span the centuries. Men have sexual drives. Prayer alone will not dampen this powerful force. Hence you have ticking bombs which need attention and relief. I suspect they are not getting attention and relief, thus we have these huge problems surfacing at times.

As for other domination. Heck yehhhh. Gurus are everywhere ready to bed down the faithful. Buddha warns against this in an indirect way, not sure about Islam and other religions as I am not up on them.

Here you have an example.

Lama

I do not say he is guilty but this accusation came up. Plausible, yes. True, I have no idea.

When Men are put up on high pedestals possibility for abuse is everywhere


By the way, his book was a turning point for me. Go figure....


I am now listening to Bing Crosby. Looked like an Ideal Dad but One of his kids said he was a monster. Public image and what goes on behind closed doors very very often is quite different.




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