Woman jumps barrier, knocks down pope at Christmas Eve mass, Vatican says

Originally posted by factbeforefiction

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by factbeforefiction

 

LOL, yeah because if anything it is those darned atheists that are always out there pushing their ideals on people. LOL. Atheist wars and atheist violence just makes me sick.

Which atheist wars are you pointing out in particular, the 80 million people slaughtered by atheist Mao, or the 50 million slaughtered by atheist Stalin?

You still LOL or do you just feel a need to study a little more.

Those wars were fought in the name of Atheism? I guess I do need some schooling. Care to clue me in? In fact, list all the wars ever fought in the name of the belief that there is no god. I will even start you a thread if you like.

Originally posted by Osiris_Caine
If you had a chance to punch the devil wouldn't you?

If I knew it was the Devil, I would be obligated, as a Christian, not to punch him. The goal of Christianity is to defeat the Devil in your own heart, not attempt to "punch him" nor "punch" those who follow the Devil — those individuals who labor under the misconception that Christianity is about destroying unbelievers are very, very much deluded.

Those who think Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) was "a Nazi" are very, very much deluded, as well.

Neither Ratzinger nor anyone in his immediate family ever joined the Nazi Party — in fact, his father had a history of defying the Nazi government. As a child, Joseph Ratzinger was inducted into Hitler's Nazi Youth, but this was compulsory — all boys in Germany under the Third Reich were required to enter the Nazi Youth.

This did not mean they voluntarily joined the Nazi Party, nor did it mean they accepted Nazi ideology. There is no proof whatsoever that Ratzinger was ever a Nazi or accepted Nazi principles.

And there is certainly no proof that Ratzinger ever wronged anyone to such an extreme that he deserves being physically assaulted.

— Doc Velocity

just goes to show how unpowerful this pope really is... hes a politican of the church, one of the most highly positioned people of the world and he is not untouchable in the slightest.

Nevermind holy... he just a man with a hat and a robe, and nothing more. Human just like everybody else. i wouldnt be suprised to see him next time in that bullet proof golf cart. i mean seriously what does a man of GOD have to fear of death if he is truely doing GOD's work?

people act like its a priveledge to hear mass spoken by the pope...? however they fail to see they are just as powerful to deliver the word of GOD. i for one am a none believer. she may be deemed "mentaly unstable by the media, but any one who blindly beLIEves in something to be universal truth, (interpreted at that) is mentaly unstable in my book.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I think it is extremely short-sighted of you to assume that this man has done no ill.
This man is a global elite.
He is a cog in the same system that birthed the Nazi's themselves.

Guilt by association, I'm afraid.

And it IS unfair, but it is life.

You know, I've ran across you before on these boards.
It seems your Christianity on such pure ideals only goes as far as you will personally allow it to.
For instance, I seem to remember quite well how scathing you can become when we are talking about .... ummm.... I don't know, fighting Muslims.

You are treading on thin ice, Christian. Choose your words carefully. Jesus doesn't like hypocrites.

Originally posted by Cigar
I think it's safe to say that security for the pope isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

Well, my point is, if this woman was inside St. Peter's Basilica for the Christmas Eve Mass, she was invited — it's not a public mass. So, presumably, she had already been screened by Vatican security before being allowed inside.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Joseph Ratzinger’s claims about the Hitler Youth are not true. Compulsory membership was first defined in 1936 and reinforced in 1939, not in 1941 as he says. Ratzinger also says that he was “still too young” at the time, but he was 14 in 1941 and not too young at all: between the ages of 10 and 14, membership in the Deutsche Jungvolk (a group for younger children) was mandatory. Yet there is no mention of Raztinger belonging. If he had managed to avoid the required membership in the Deutsche Jungvolk, why did he suddenly join the Hitler Youth in 1941?

But besides all that, seriously a lot of family defied the Nazis they risked there lives to do so, the popes FAMILY might've done a little here and there but the pope himself clearly not so much as one would expect a successor of Peter to do.... And seriously expecting someone else to sort the devil and merely just having an 'internal struggle' against him is weak sauce dude.

Originally posted by JayinAR
For instance, I seem to remember quite well how scathing you can become when we are talking about .... ummm.... I don't know, fighting Muslims.

Show me a linked quote in which I advocate Christians "fighting Muslims". You can't show me such a quote because it doesn't exist.

What I have discussed at length is the fact that the United States government and its allies are very much involved with the Jews of Israel in wiping Islam off the map, that our country and our allies are engaged in a Holy War against Islam. This much is fact.

But I've never advocated Christians fighting Muslims.

Originally posted by JayinAR
You are treading on thin ice, Christian. Choose your words carefully. Jesus doesn't like hypocrites.

And you are WHO? You're in such a morally-superior position that you feel confident in issuing warnings to Christians? Take a hike, bub.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by factbeforefiction

Right on. If random psychos are going to start attacking pedophiles based on frequency of acts committed then we should expect a public school teacher to be trounced at least on a daily basis.

There was some scandal where 1000s or school teachers were known to be molesting children and were protected by the scools? When did this happen?

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Really, is it a FACT that the US is involved in a Holy War against Islam?
That's funny. From where I sit it is a geostrategic war both geographically and economically and IN FACT, has very, very, very little to do with religion at all.

And you're right, I shouldn't have issued a warning, because all in all, I don't have the desire to look through your comments to find your childlike insults on the matter if someone even voices their disdain at the US' policies in the matter.

So for that, I apologize.

But, you also misrepresented my remarks.
I never said you condoned the actions outright. Instead, you like to insult people who DON'T condone the actions. Subtle difference, but one you can later use to be intellectually consistent.

I still think this is a hilarious story. And would have been even better if the woman had been even more out of control.

Originally posted by Osiris_Caine
Joseph Ratzinger’s claims about the Hitler Youth are not true. Compulsory membership was first defined in 1936 and reinforced in 1939, not in 1941 as he says.

The Hitler Youth Law (1936) made membership compulsory for all youths aged 10 to 18. The updated 1939 law conscripted boys specifically.

Ratzinger did not "join" the Hitler Youth — he was reluctantly conscripted in 1941 at the age of 14, according the law, but he was a lousy Hitler Youth who refused to attend meetings.

Originally posted by Osiris_Caine
But besides all that, seriously a lot of family defied the Nazis they risked there lives to do so, the popes FAMILY might've done a little here and there but the pope himself clearly not so much as one would expect a successor of Peter to do...

Peter was a reluctant disciple who doubted Christ on more than one occasion and who repeatedly denied that he even knew Jesus when Christ was being arrested and hauled away to his death.

You wouldn't expect a Saint or the first Pope to deny that he knew Jesus, either, would you?

Originally posted by Osiris_Caine
And seriously expecting someone else to sort the devil and merely just having an 'internal struggle' against him is weak sauce dude.

There is no Devil except what's in your heart. Dude.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by JayinAR
And you're right, I shouldn't have issued a warning, because all in all, I don't have the desire to look through your comments to find your childlike insults on the matter...

That's what I figured. They always accuse me and then back down when asked to supply proof.

Originally posted by JayinAR
So for that, I apologize.

I forgive you.

Originally posted by JayinAR
I never said you condoned [fighting Muslims] outright. Instead, you like to insult people who DON'T condone the actions.

Who did I insult for not fighting Muslims?

— Doc Velocity







[edit on 12/24/2009 by Doc Velocity]

The Vatican is handling this exactly the same way that the NFL handles coverage of idiotic fans who run out onto the field of play... loosely acknowledge that somebody with a pea sized brain is being disruptive and making a spectacle of themselves, don't show footage of the attention seeker in the act, and move on as if it was a non-occurence.

It's Christmas Eve Mass... has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Pope, NOTHING to do with people who have a beef with the Church, NOTHING to do with anger and hatefullness, and EVERYTHING to do with the recognition of the symbolic birthdate of Jesus Christ.

As for the red dress business, IIRC (it's been a couple of years since my last Mass... BAD Catholic convert! BAD!) on Holy Days of Obligation, red is the preferred color to wear by traditionalists. I know for certain my wife always wore red on Pentecost, Ash Wednesday, and the Assumption, and I think she wore red on Christmas too. So it isn't "strange" that there'd be women in red dresses present. Also, since this is in Italy, I think you'd be hard pressed to find many women similar in age who, when wearing a red dress, didn't look quite alot alike in videos of youtube quality and at that distance. Without a clearer video complete with a face shot, there's really no way to suggest that this was the same woman who "attacked" the Pope in Feb.

Merry Christmas! Glad the Pontif was unharmed.

Originally posted by JayinAR
Really, is it a FACT that the US is involved in a Holy War against Islam?
That's funny. From where I sit it is a geostrategic war both geographically and economically and IN FACT, has very, very, very little to do with religion at all.

Sit down with a Muslim some time and discuss it. That'll set your head straight, or at least give you a "balanced" world view.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


"Who did I insult for not fighting Muslims?"

Well me of course, silly!

Otherwise I wouldn't be addressing you at all.
Afterall, I don't run around here starting arguments simply to see these letters on the screen.

But like I said, it doesn't matter anyhow.
That kinda' crap is between you and your creator.

Or you and the Pope.
Or whatever.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


My cousin is a Muslim from Lebanon.
We talk about it all the time, thanks.

Thanks for the suggestion though, champ!

Originally posted by JayinAR
My cousin is a Muslim from Lebanon. We talk about it all the time, thanks. Thanks for the suggestion though, champ!

Really. And your cousin from Lebanon has never suggested to you that he feels there is a Holy War going on between Zionists and Muslims?

Give him a call and see what he thinks of President Obama sending 30,000 more troops into Afghanistan or refusing to mediate in the rising tension between Israel and Iran.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


As I said, the war is a geostrategic war.
Both economically and geographically.

Please don't presume to know what my relationships or conversations may be, or may have covered. Or not covered.

EDIT--- ***APOLOGIES*** I am hijacking the thread. This wasn't my intention. I just didn't like the direction it was heading when people start calling atheists "psychoes"... It is a subject that I hold very dear as I spent a number of my formulative years considering myself an "atheist" and had to deal with these sorts of irrational arguments all the time.
From there, it digressed to a personal difference I have, internally, with the guy I am currently engaged with. So again, I apologize.



Back on topic - The pope being tackled is funny in my book. Color me Crazy. (2nd edit) You know, Jesus acted no differently. He was a rambunctious (sp?) type dude. I can dig what he was about.... In my estimation, he wouldn't like the Pope too much either. But hey, that's just me looking at it from the angle that he was killed by an oppresive Government and the Pope basically HEADS THE MOST oppresive Government ever to exist.

IN FACT, the same Government that killed Jesus.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by JayinAR]

[edit on 24-12-2009 by JayinAR]

Originally posted by factbeforefiction
reply to post by ROBL240

 

Most likely just another psycho atheist like we see everyday here on ATS.

Oh please.. Your derogative, shallow minded and unchristian remarks do little but support your campaign of hate.

Grow up.

You can see one of the secret service guys going to his holster before deciding better of it. I thought it was blasphemy to have weapons inside a church or holy place?

Here is the actual footage of the pope being brought down.



You can hear the gasps from the crowd.