Overzealous Anti-Christians

Originally posted by Chainmaker
. . .
Just want to point out that Jesus preached peace and love but not tolerance of other religions. He didn't teach violence against people of other religions, but he definitely didn't teach tolerance.

If being a Christian means being intolerant of other religions, perhaps Christianity should be banned after all.

There's enough strife already in this world without religion spreading intolerance.

reply to post by tamusan


I am a Christian and I don't care what you believe or even if you believe. There, you have met one.

reply to post by Dookie Master


Then maybe you are not a real Christian.

See Matthew 28:18-20 (among many other passages.)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Originally posted by brilab45
Fanatical christians.

You said it.
Not all Christians. Fanatical Christians.
The fanatics are a tiny, tiny minority in the Christian community.
What you are doing and saying is about the same thing as making a racial slur, and stereotyping an entire race based on a small group.

reply to post by tamusan


You can take many strange contradictory statements out of context of the Bible.

I am a Christian because I try to live my life like Christ, not because I take random verses from an ancient collection of writings and use them like a version of the "I'Ching"

I outline my ideas on the subject in the post right above your post that I took issue with. The wrong people are speaking for all Christians, the people who wrote the Bible had an agenda and I believe Christ would be outraged at the manner in which many "Christians" live today.

I have been stared at in a church that was filled with "Christians" when I had long hair. I was told by a ministers Bible-thumping son that I was going to hell for having sex out of wedlock when I was in high school. I still have faith. I know many more Christians that believe the way I do, I know many that certainly do not. I still maintain faith in my beliefs; I volunteer, I pray for others souls, I try to turn the other cheek, I will openly talk about my faith to those who may listen(or read). I am not the Judge, I am not the preacher. I am a Christian because I believe Christ died so that my sins will be forgiven.

If you asked me to explain Christ to you I would, if I saw you everyday you would never hear me preach to you.

I KNOW I am NOT here on this earth to convert people to Christianity, some believe they are, I choose to leave that job to others that are much more qualified than I am.

You believe what you wish to believe, if it helps humanity then you should continue.

Please don't judge all Christians on the example of Ultra-Evangelicals. Please don't question my faith.

reply to post by Dookie Master


I respect your beliefs and did not mean to single you out. I apologize.

I was raised to be a Christian. I spent the first 8 years of my life thinking everyone was a Christian. At around the age of 14, it all began to seem ridiculous to me. I saw too much hypocrisy and exploitation in the churches. (I say churches because my father was a Marine and I moved frequently) At some point, I began to pretend to be a Christian. Somewhere in my late 20s, I dropped the charade altogether. Now I am 40ish and hold no religious belief. Something I am very comfortable with.

I have been ostracized by friends and family who are hardcore believers.

I often encounter a Christian here or there, and we seem to get along at first. At least until the topic of religion comes up. This is when they become concerned for my soul.

Just last year, I was living in the U.S., and took a friend up on the offer to attend his church. I was assured that they accepted all beliefs and that they would not try to convert my Buddhist wife. Lo and behold, we were assaulted with the Jesus is the only way to heaven speech week after week. I would have continued to attend this church had that not happened. In the end, they are the ones that missed out on the $200 a week I was dropping in the collection plate.

I'm not a Christian now, but my actions are more like Jesus than some Christians I have encountered in life. I help the poor in many ways. I even refrain from breaking laws. I don't cheat, steal, rape, murder, or lie and hold many of the other Christian values. The only thing that sets me apart from them is my disbelief that Christ is the son of God. I also do not believe the bible to be truly representative of Christ. I feel that Christs message was hijacked by the emperor Constantine as a tool to control all of Rome.

And typically, I do not participate in these type of threads. I have no desire to bash any religion or belief. To each their own. I only stepped in here because this thread seemed like an attack on me.

Do you know what really irks me about Christianity? Someone can be a vile, evil, person and attain salvation simply by accepting Jesus as their personal savior.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by tamusan]

reply to post by tamusan


Your outline of beliefs is so similar to mine and many others today. I am not going to judge your age, but I feel you are old enough to pay bills, make informed decisions and know right from wrong. These are the gifts of free will, which is a gift we all have. When over-zealous Christians make a huge fuss about "I am right and you are wrong because someone tells me so..", they are waving their ability to choose for themselves.

I really cannot agree with you more about the church, spirituality is a good thing, religion is not.

I was introduced to Christ through church at an early age. When we were of age to join the church we had to read "Luke" and answer questions about the book with an elder in the church. Everything about the reading and such seemed good, but I was beginning high school or so at the time (14ish) and I always questioned what measure is this of my faith and who are they to say if I am ready for the church; the beginning of my "Schism". As sad as it sounds, I spent more than one Sunday in the church parking lot, in my car, afraid to go in because I felt I would be stared down by the people in the church. This is the church my family was a member of since I was an infant. I did not lose my faith in Christ though, I don't know why. A common theme in my prayers is "help me live more like Christ, help me understand, please help those in need", I feel that is what Christ would have wanted.

I do still attend church occasionally with my elderly grandmother, but it is for her benefit, I do not subscribe to any denomination of Christianity because God is not inside of the church it is everywhere.

If you are being a good person I think that is your "key to Heaven", not works. As a matter of fact, I do know a verse that goes along with that thought, "It is through faith alone, not through acts, that man gets to Heaven" (Ephesians 2:8) I paraphrased, but some things in the Bible do make sense, though I am NOT a quoter of the text, I actually hate when people do that all the time.

When the time comes and we are all judged the people whom decided to persecute and look down upon others will be punished in one way or another, or maybe not I am not a prophet

Basically, living like a good human is the message I take from Christianity and I believe Christ has shown me how to do so. When I became a teacher I taught prisoners, literally. When I started teaching at the public school level, I made sure that I stood close to the smelly kid, so others would over look their flaws. When I taught in college I never belittled a "dumb" question. Now, I am dropping my previous career to become a LCAS and more because I have seen so many of our service men and women come back from active duty with addictions because they had pills thrown at them instead of the correct therapy. I live this way because I believe that Christ would agree with what I choose (not everything I do, but nobody's perfect;D) because I choose to help my fellow man (and woman).

I ramble, but I didn't think we would agree and now I know we are on the same side. I still follow Christ, you do not and that is OK with me.

P.S.-No person knows God's plan or ideas, anyone who says they do is wrong.

The problem is that as large and widespread as Christianity is, there are going to be those individuals that give it a bad name. It just happens. There's really no way around it. There are priests who molest children. There are scam artists who use Christianity as a guise and financially sodomise the willing populace. There are door-to-door Christians who in all fairness think they're doing the right thing but don't have a firm grasp on reality.

With all due respect, because I AM a Christian, I equate these door-to-door Christianity salesmen to cannibals. They just don't know any better. It's what they're taught. If I were to see a cannibal eating another human and tell him to stop he'd probably look at me and just think "Why?" That's probably the same response that these door-to-door Christians would give.

In conclusion, people bash Christianity because, well basically, because it is subjectible to being bashed. The motives, general attitudes, and overall actions of Christians, no matter the denomination, give nonbelievers and contrary believers alike a reason to become hostile.

Does that mean it is right that they DO become hostile? Of course not. Hostility is not a course that is right in any circumstance, IMO. However, if you give a man a reason to judge you, you can bet your last dollar that he will.

A2D

reply to post by tamusan


Most nations have already been taught. Either they accepted the gift or they declined it. I believe the "go and teach all nations" has already been fulfilled.

If asked to provide a definition for "Christianity", there would be a very minute group of individuals who wouldn't understand what you're asking.

If what Christianity has to offer wasn't accepted the first time, it won't be accepted the 5th, 25th, 255th, or 250,000th time either. That is why I am content to keeping my belief to myself and to accept that other people are going to formulate beliefs contrary to my own.

As long as you're not building your huge golden idol of a grasshopper in a jumpsuit reading Shakespeare's "Hamlet" while playing "Devil Went Down to Georgia" with his "fiddle-legs" on my front lawn, I have no quarrels.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree

However, if you give a man a reason to judge you, you can bet your last dollar that he will.

You seem like one of those Christians that I could sit down with and enjoy a civil, non-religious conversation with over tea. I don't dislike Christians, but they often dislike me.

Now on to what I quoted from your post. I often find that I am judged solely for my lack of belief in their religion and not for my deeds.

I am retired from the military now, but I served to protect the constitution of the U.S. That included everyones right to believe and assemble to worship as they see fit (So long as it does no harm to another). I couldn't tell you how many times I have been denied that same courtesy.

It's amazing how many people have actually been surprised that I am a Christian. I guess there is some sort of stereotype that places Christians in the lower branches of the intellectual tree.

I served to protect those constitutional rights as well. I know exactly what you mean. People that don't have to fight for their right to party, take it for granted.

A2D

[edit on 26-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

Jesus clearly said that salvation was only through him. He clearly commanded his followers to spread that message.

He was an ultra-radical who was radically polarizing. He pissed off lots of people, by declaring himself The Son of God, The Messiah, and saying he was equal to the Father, and saying no one could come to the Father except through him.

He was completely intolerant of any other beliefs about spirituality other than what he was preaching. But he said to witness to others by showing love, by emulating him.

Jesus ended up pissing off so many people with his radically intolerant and exclusionary and divisive claims, that people eventually decided that they had enough and they killed him, even though he had never committed a crime, only had helped people.

Many people who call themselves Christians are horrible hypocrites, priests molesting kids being the prime example.

Many people who call themselves Christian tell other people that they are tolerant of other religions, and say they don't need to witness to other people, that people from other religions can be saved without Christ.

Those people are hypocrites just the same as the child-molesting priests.

reply to post by Chainmaker

Jesus clearly said that salvation was only through him. He clearly commanded his followers to spread that message.

He was an ultra-radical who was radically polarizing. He pissed off lots of people, by declaring himself The Son of God, The Messiah, and saying he was equal to the Father, and saying no one could come to the Father except through him.

His credibility is valid. He is the Son of God. I do not doubt His claims, as many have, and while I believed through faith originally, that was rewarded through prayers answered and genuine communication in the years since. The heart and mind has a way of discerning sincerity in goodwill and truth of intent, and time tests the matter. I have no doubt in my mind that Jesus Christ still lives, and works through those who are faithful to Him, and seek to follow the practices which are pleasing to God as found in the Bible.

The kind of telepathy one experiences with a partner? That can also be found among gifted people of the Christian Faith through the Holy Spirit. The limit is only dependant upon the giftedness of the persons involved imo. Could you ask for any more "proof"? I've also been made aware of many wise points in my soul that I might have remained clueless to, thanks to the messengers of heaven, especially as pertains to the minutae of daily details and personal relations among friends and family. Nothing world-shaking, rather, matters within our scope.

There was a book out recently (last couple of years) by a man who tried to live every letter of the Old and New Testament Law, right to the point of growing a beard, observing Sabbaths and sacrifices, "be fruitful and multiply" - his wife humoured him, and other practices, especially around the rituals surrounding Christ's resurrection. Obviously that fell short of "stoning" people, and he wisely took the stance of certain rules applying to certain cultures where the culture did not forbid them. Perhaps the point is, that we shouldn't sin against God, rather than examining whether we should have rules againt sins.

He was completely intolerant of any other beliefs about spirituality other than what he was preaching. But he said to witness to others by showing love, by emulating him.

Ideologies are dangerous, as evidenced by Gnostic and Rosecrucian heresies that have infiltrated certain sects of the church (and have effectively rendered them as "dead branches" which are not empowered or guided by God any longer). They exist as scarecrows to us, or ill totems of false doctrine. Most Christians wisely avoid them.

Jesus ended up pissing off so many people with his radically intolerant and exclusionary and divisive claims, that people eventually decided that they had enough and they killed him, even though he had never committed a crime, only had helped people.

Jesus preached what He preached, and people made the decision themselves to grow angry. This happened where much evil was in place, similar to Pauls trials that led him before Caesar in Rome (the Book of Acts). He also preached before thousands who loved His words, and adored him. The fact that so many love Him today, and find strength in the true faith that is Christianity, is no mistake, is not a by-product of political tailoring, and would not have lasted without having full worth. Not with so many extrordinary claims. The simple fact is, we are empowered and loved by God, thanks to the sacrifice of His son for us.

Many people who call themselves Christians are horrible hypocrites, priests molesting kids being the prime example.

The church has been infiltrated by the Jesuits and the Rosecrucian Dynasty, by Illuminati orders (who go so far as to hold child sacrifices under the Vatican - hear the interviews of Svali), by Lucis Trust through the UN who presently set the stage for the theosophical religion of the elites, and perhaps by the occasional evil man without such affiliations.
Please be assured that the media is well behind this, to make it look like honest bishops and priests are to blame, and to cover up any workings behind the scenes which would show off the power divisions of men of the white cloth who adhere to the faith, and those of scarlet rags who work for the corrupting powers. This is a demon-possessed world.

The Devil is very real, and so are his followers. If you don't believe that now, I'll simply say that I hope you aren't too shocked when you discover this is true.

Many people who call themselves Christian tell other people that they are tolerant of other religions, and say they don't need to witness to other people, that people from other religions can be saved without Christ.

They become a law unto themselves, as spoke of in Romans, because the laws of God are already writ in the hearts of every man, woman, and child on earth. We have small excuse not to listen to our conciences, or to sear them to the point where they no longer instruct us. If someone seeks a way besides the way God gave us, then I say best wishes, and may God bless them! I don't think it's the best way by any stretch, I think it will be much, much harder to live as a sinless human being. But power to you to try.

Those people are hypocrites just the same as the child-molesting priests.

To wish a person well is not a crime. To be tolerant of other religions is reasonable to a point. All matters of wise concern need to be addressed, not simply a parroting of a few verses. An entire sermon could be given on hypocrisy. Thing is, the person outside the church usually resorts to slander and discredit, while a follower of Jesus would rather turn the other cheek, take the abuse, and carry on in a loving fashion to address the world. There's also love to be found in speaking against heresy - it shows you care about the other enough not to let it go without saying something.

Take the dominating methodology of Satanism for example - utter selfishness backed by war. A religion? I scoff. An abomination of death-causing sin that degrade man as he casts himself and others away from God. Utter foolishness. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Some people are just incorrugable in their natures however, and ultimately, why worry about it. God will judge, not us, and no need to fret about it.