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Uganda softens controversial anti-gay law

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posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 02:04 AM
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Uganda softens controversial anti-gay law


www.theglobeandmail.com

Uganda will soften its proposed anti-gay legislation, but the government denied on Wednesday that it was bowing to an outcry in the West over a controversial bill that could have seen homosexuals put to death.

Ethics and Integrity Minister Nsaba Buturo told Reuters that the revised law would now probably limit the maximum penalty for offenders to life in prison rather than execution.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
af.reuters.com




posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 02:04 AM
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I found this rather barbaric. This makes me think of the Nazi Germany era. Killing people for something as silly as that. But with the new version of the law they will just throw them all in jail.
So is the state just looking for cheap labor force or what? Because throwing them all in jail will certainly not stop any sort of gay behavior.

www.theglobeandmail.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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Hey, look Uganda just discovered oil in the country:


Uganda becomes oil producer

afrol News, 9 October - After years of painstaking exploration, Ugandans heard what they have been longing to hear - the discovery of oil in their country. The country's President, Yoweri Museveni, made the announcement at a national thanks-giving service for the discovery of oil this weekend in Ugandan capital Kampala. Commercial production should start in 2009, says President Museveni.


www.afrol.com...


You hear that, Halliburton?






We have another country we can "liberate."


[edit on 24-12-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by RedGolem
 


This is horrendous - why don't other powerful countries intercede here?

So, they are not going to put gays to death, they are just going to give them life imprisonment - WHAT?



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:25 AM
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reply to post by RedGolem
 


BS. If you study the old version of th proposed Law there was nothing in it that even hints at actions like the Nazis. They were only going to use the death penalty for perpetrators of violent crimes against other innocent people.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by TaraLou
reply to post by RedGolem
 


This is horrendous - why don't other powerful countries intercede here?

So, they are not going to put gays to death, they are just going to give them life imprisonment - WHAT?



What.. are you saying we should impose Democracy.. (People were upset at Bush for doing that) or Your world view on these people? They have right to govern their people as they see fit. They are doing it to protect their people because they have a bad problem with AIDS.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


This country has never protected their people and never will - much like every other country.

When the SHTF it will be the rich, the rulers, the controllers up there and everyone else will be drowning.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by TaraLou
 


So.. if that's true.. you are saying they cannot start to protect their people now??

EDIT:

This is what was in the Old Bill People.. it was for their protection, nothing nazi about it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is the some of the summery of the OLD bill and some of the Bill itself that I wish to respond to. I will interject all my remarks with an asterisk.

From the summery
(Summery and Bill found here)
www.boxturtlebulletin.com...

"the current bill reiterates a lifetime imprisonment on conviction of homosexuality, and defines a new category called “aggravated homosexuality” with provisions for the death penalty upon conviction. Among the factors which can lead to “aggravated homosexuality” is if one partner is HIV-positive. This bill would mandate HIV testing to determine eligibility for “aggravated homosexuality.”

Also like the earlier draft, the bill includes a complete ban on all LGBT activities — including blogging — which could be construed as “promoting homosexuality.” This infringement on free speech, peaceful assembly, and redress of grievances marks the elimination of fundamental human rights for LGBT Ugandans. The bill also bans all organizations which advocate on behalf of LGBT citizens and holds their leadership criminally liable with fines and imprisonment for up to seven years.

The bill also extends jurisdiction to acts committed outside Uganda by Ugandan citizens. In other words, if a Ugandan citizen is known to be in a gay relationship outside the country, he will risk lifetime imprisonment (or death, if he’s HIV-positive) upon his return.

* This is pretty straight forward. but why are they doing it? I found this:

* " There are currently an estimated 940,000 people living with HIV in Uganda, and a further 1.2 million children who have been * orphaned by AIDS.1"
* www.avert.org...
* That seems like a good reason to stop HIV at all costs. lets see why else they are doing it.

From the Bill

This Bill aims at strengthening the nation’s capacity to deal with emerging internal and external threats to the traditional heterosexual family.

The Bill further aims at providing a comprehensive and enhanced legislation to protect the cherished culture of the people of Uganda. legal, religious, and traditional family values of the people of Uganda against the attempts of sexual rights activists seeking to impose their values of sexual promiscuity on the people of Uganda.

There is also need to protect the children and youths of Uganda who are made vulnerable to sexual abuse and deviation as a result of cultural changes, uncensored information technologies, parentless child developmental settings and increasing attempts by homosexuals to raise children in homosexual relationships through adoption, foster care, or otherwise.

* Ah, Here it is. they want to protect their way of life, Their Traditional Family Values. That seems fair and honest.

Objective of the Bill

(a) provide for marriage in Uganda as that contracted only between a man and a woman;
(b) prohibit and penalize homosexual behavior and related practices in Uganda as they constitute a threat to the traditional family;
(e) prohibit ratification of any international treaties, conventions, protocols, agreements and declarations which are contrary or inconsistent with the provisions of this Act;
(d) prohibit the licensing of organizations which promote homosexuality.

* If this is what they want as a whole for their people, there is nothing wrong with this and no one should have the right to tell a government they cannot lead their people as they see fit as long as they are not hurting anyone. That is, as long a this is not a new Hitler just trying to wipe out thousands of people for the hell of it just because they disagree with their beliefs.


3. Aggravated homosexuality. * This is where the possible death penalty comes in.

(1) A person commits the offense of aggravated homosexuality where the
(a) person against whom the offence is committed is below the age of 18 years;
* Sex with a minor. That is fair.

(b) offender is a person living with HIV;
* Spreading a deadly disease. that is fair.

(c) offender is a parent or guardian of the person against whom the offence is committed;
* Sex with a family member. That is fair.

(d) offender is a person in authority over the person against whom the offence is committed;
* Sex with person whom you seek to dominate. That is fair.

(e) victim of the offence is a person with disability;
* Taking advantage of the disabled. That is fair.

(f) offender is a serial offender, or
* Offender breaks the Law multiple times. That is fair.

(g) offender applies, administers or causes to be used by any man or woman any drug, matter or thing with intent to stupefy overpower him or her so as to there by enable any person to have unlawful carnal connection with any person of the same sex,
* Sex by taking advantage of a person using drugs without their consent. That is fair.

(2) A person who commits the offence of aggravated homosexuality shall be liable on conviction to suffer death.

(3) Where a person is charged with the offence under this section, that person shall undergo a medical examination to ascertain his or her HIV status."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Why do I say these things are fair? Because they are! These people are trying to stave off a deadly disease and protect their traditional family values. Uganda is Not the USA. you cannot seek to impose your values on these peoples if this is how they choose to run their country.

I see nothing evil in this bill. The reasons for the possible death penalty are all horrible crimes committed against another person.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems to me the Bill was FINE as it was. they should NOT have softened it one bit.



[edit on 24-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:39 AM
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Can't we all just get along? Leave the gays alone!! I love women, for sure, but dayum!! I'd kiss Johnny Depp in a heartbeat. lol. Not sure he would want to kiss me, though. But I sure as hell don't want to be put to death for this thought.Nor this action between two consenting adults. If it ever happened. Well, I can dream, can't I?
Or would I be killed for that?



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


I am saying "fingers crossed".

In other words it is a joke, they won't do that. Have you ever been to down trodden African countries? I have, and they won't.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by TaraLou
 



Look at my EDIT on my last post explaining the old bill.

How can you be so sure they are not doing it to protect the people?

It's possible their politicians had a lot of pressure on them from the world stage about letting Aids run rampant.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


I dont see any reason to even mention homosexuality in the bill. Those crimes you presented apply to heterosexual people as well as homosexuals, so why the need for this "Aggravated homosexuality" nonsense?
They should apply to all equally. Applying this rules ONLY to homosexuals is discrimination.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 

Uganda's successful mobilization against HIV/Aids in the 1990s has been much discussed by a plethora of experts in the field.
Unlike some other African states, Uganda did not go into denial about the heterosexual African pandemic, but Aids awareness was spread by even the highest politicians. This was coupled with a very successful condom campaign, and campaigns against heterosexual concurrent relationships (the "zero grazing" campaign).
However, since George W. Bush's PEPFAR plan several evangelical groups have followed the cash to Uganda. This pushed the abstinance based ABC policy, and students were known to publically burn condoms. Uganda also attracted US anti-gay extremists such as Scott Lively, and related "hate groups". (Most of these Christian fundamentalist groups however now agree that the bill is too harsh.)
AIDS activists are concerned that homosexuality will be driven underground, since even counselling and safe-sex campaigns for homosexuals will be technically illegal. The homophobes in Uganda argue that homosexuality accounts only for a negligable percentage of infections, so the laws won't affect HIV prevention, according to their own arguments. Instead HIV/Aids is used as just another stick to beat gays with, and to impress Westerners who have little knowledge on the heterosexual pandemic in Africa.
Africanists (in ignorance of history and anthropology) regard homosexuality as a Western import, and following the example of Robert Mugabe they view homophobic laws as a means to assert their independence from Western influence.
Life-long imprisonment in most African countries is a de facto death sentence.
The general consensus is that the bill spells disaster for HIV/Aids campaigns, and it is veiwed as a reaction to growing gay visibility in Africa.
www.afrol.com...



[edit on 24-12-2009 by halfoldman]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 07:11 AM
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Still folks.. those arguments may apply in America, but obviously not in Uganda. If the Government does not want gays in their country it is their right and their privilege to do what it takes to thwart homosexuality in their country.

There are no God Given Rights that all mankind recognize that says it's legally or morally or ethically acceptable to be Gay to the point where you HAVE to give them the same status and rights as every other human. It is Not a Black thing, or a White thing or even a Human Rights thing, It is a Belief thing.

In case you didn't get that: IT IS A BELIEF THING

It's all inside the Head. It's an Idea. It's a belief system.

If the Government in Uganda does not wish their people to have or spread such beliefs then that is perfectly acceptable and within International Law - and is right for them.

This is just like in the USA they don't want you spreading Communism. Or in Iraq they don't want you to live there and be a Christian.

It's the Same Thing.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 

I think there are many Christians in Islamic countries, they just may not convert Muslims to Christianity.
The law in Uganda was heavily influenced from the outside, and I just spotted some material on the American family that is allegedly responsible for further research.
What is clear is that many heterosexuals will suffer if they do not denounce gay friends, families, people they are counselling or ministering to the police within 24 hours.
I don't see this anywhere else, especially not in the US after McCarthyism.
OK, one could use the same arguments for Nazi Germany or apartheid, or the old US south - they all had people they didn't like, and that made victimization OK.
Of course we in South Africa will get the refugees. I doubt anyone will stage an invasion to save the gays, but the bill is reprehensible and should be denounced. It is a legalized witch-hunt.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


Yes, but that does not mean we should not criticise them.
Being silent is not a way to go, so when they discriminate gays in Uganda, bash christians in Iraq and spread communism in the USA, we should express our disagreement.

And if some society decides that a murder or rape is all right, will we do nothing, because it is their belief system?



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 

I think there are many Christians in Islamic countries, they just may not convert Muslims to Christianity.
The law in Uganda was heavily influenced from the outside, and I just spotted some material on the American family that is allegedly responsible for further research.
What is clear is that many heterosexuals will suffer if they do not denounce gay friends, families, people they are counselling or ministering to the police within 24 hours.
I don't see this anywhere else, especially not in the US after McCarthyism.
OK, one could use the same arguments for Nazi Germany or apartheid, or the old US south - they all had people they didn't like, and that made victimization OK.
Of course we in South Africa will get the refugees. I doubt anyone will stage an invasion to save the gays, but the bill is reprehensible and should be denounced. It is a legalized witch-hunt.



Yep. Your right. It's a legalized witch hunt. So What? If that's what they want for their country its fine by me.

They are not saying they are going to kill all these people in gas chambers just because they are gay. So they round them up and put them in Jail.. So What? The Idea I suppose is if enough people see this they will think twice about being gay in Uganda.

If this is how you stop something you don't want in your country then that's a good way to start as long as they just don't go slaughter millions of gays just for the hell of it.

Do you have a better idea?.. Lets say you were a member of the government in Uganda and you were charged with the task of stopping homosexuality in Uganda. How would you do it?

I look forward to seeing how you would do this.

I invite everyone to tell us their ideas on this.

Edit: Actually, Don't answer that. I do not want to hijack the Op's thread. I will make a New thread .

New thread is Here:

www.abovetopsecret.com... How would you change the Uganda Gay Bill?

[edit on 24-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

[edit on 24-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Bingo.
This was influenced from outside. Not just from Evangelicals from the United States, but also Europe - especially a group in Britain who believe homosexuals should be stoned to death.

If Uganda wants to persecute a minority, to protect the financial aid from Christian extremists - then fine. Be my guest. However, all nations - who believe in morality and don't believe in medieval beliefs - should cease to provide any humanitarian aid to Uganda.



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Funny how outcries of how barbaric these countries are...from a country that has the death penality or how gun owners applaud when a store owner shoots, reloads and executes a robber.

2nd line.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by kerazeesicko]



posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
Funny how outcries of how barbaric these countries are...from a country that has the death penality or how gun owners applaud when a store owner shoots, reloads and executes a robber.

2nd line.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by kerazeesicko]


Every country is more or less barbaric in some way. That is why those outcries are needed. Barbarism of one country cannot be an excuse for another country to become barbaric.

It is indeed funny, but if we would be quiet, it would not be funny. It would be sad...



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