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Originally posted by metamagic
I no longer even bother with creationists. Or flat earthers. They do seem to be a uniquely American cultural phenomenon as a off shoot of this odd form of fundamentalism that is also part of the American culture. Better things to do with my time.
Originally posted by Max_TO
My mistake I see by the title of the thread that you were directing this question to those of the " Creation theory " and at no where did you make this a evolution vs God thread my mistake was in judging as such , hence my mistake.
Originally posted by passenger
In it, God tells the kids that they will die if they “eat of the fruit or touch it, lest you die” (paraphrase) Gen 3:3. The serpent tells them that’s a load of B.S. It turns out the snake is telling the truth; because Adam and Eve both obviously touch and eat the fruit and don’t die. Then, God gets scared (yeah, I said scared – read the whole chapter and the bits that follow) and curses them and kicks them out of Eden.
God establishes himself, very early on, in the Bible as someone not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Makes you wonder about the rest…
the Earth only 6,000 years old
Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old
if the Bible is correct
then God is deceiving us
Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by JaxonRoberts
An investigation into the Bible that treats it as just another cycle of mythology would reveal that this "Satan" chap is in fact an agent of god, who's purpose is to test mankind's loyalty to that god. Similar to other collective "Police entrapment" gods in many other cultures.
The real creationist conundrum is simply that their claim makes no sense and has no corroborative evidence.
And I quote, "By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two)."
And you noted, and I quote, "Meanwhile, the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And you noted, "then God is deceiving us... lying to us... leading us away from the Truth... Hmm."
The first and second verses of Genesis, correctly interpreted from the Hebrew, answers a few questions but also raises others. KJV states: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. A more literal translation would be: In the beginning of God's creations of the heavens and the earth, and the earth became a waste and desolation ... In the KJV the sense of immediate occurrence between the creation and the being without form and void seems strong. But in actuality there could have been eons of time between Gen. 1: I and 1:2. Easily enough time for the prehistoric time of the earth. God never creates imperfection, only through sin and disobedience to God, comes a falling away from God and his blessings.
In Jeremiah 4:23 he had a vision in the past tense and he said. "I beheld the earth and it became waste and desolatesame words as in Genesis) and the heavens and they had no light. I beheld the mountains and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld and lo there was no man (literally Adam), and all the birds of heaven were fled. I beheld and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the "cities" thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord and by his fierce anger. Here Jeremiah sees a past tense earth becoming waste and desolate, the same as Genesis, darkness over everything, same as Genesis. There was no Adam, same as Genesis, Adam wasn't created yet. All the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord. The term "cities" means: Meeting places of intelligent beings. Satan is intelligent and would have dwelling places, and God was very angry with him.
So we can see by accurately dividing Gods word that Gen. 1: I and 1:2 were the original creation with Satan's rebellion and fall becoming a waste and desolation. Then God re-created everything. The millions of years that this earth seemingly existed can fit easily in this part of Genesis.
3117 yowm yome from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):--age, + always, + chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (... live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger.
Originally posted by Thermo Klein
Attacking Christianity is like attacking a hidden cancer. In Western culture we live closest to Christianity so it's the most familiar bane to get rid of. Christian beliefs are from ONE book, the Bible. The Bible is inaccurate but people still grasp onto this ridculous straw of hope. get on with it - spirituality is within us but some men thousands of years ago figured they'd steal spirituality for profit - it's still pretty much the same today.
I gave up Christianity 20 years ago - BEST thing I ever did.
Originally posted by Thermo Klein
Genesis is a flat out lie for many reasons:
1) Noah couldn't find nor fit all the animal species onto the ark
2) All the animal species could not have gone home - like land-based animals living in Australia that were recently discovered or not discovered yet.
3) If the Bible can't even get the definition of "Day" right what the Hell are you putting any value in it for! (Genesis 1:1-1:10, material earth created day 1, planet Earth created day 3, night and day happened BEFORE Earth was made, yet in actuality night and day happen BECAUSE the earth turns! Fallacy.)
5) In "our" image.
It's a lie folks, give it up already and find that compassion and truth inside you - attribute it to compassion, interconnection, and spiritual connection - NOT some made up religion that states I am right and you are wrong, so let's go to war.
p.s. bringing "evolution" into this thread is a ruse. We are discussing the Bible NOT alternate ideas.
Originally posted by Thermo Klein
1) Noah couldn't find nor fit all the animal species onto the ark2) All the animal species could not have gone home - like land-based animals living in Australia that were recently discovered or not discovered yet.
Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
3) If the Bible can't even get the definition of "Day" right....
5) In "our" image.
It's a lie folks.........
the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!
At who's convenience?
Now if the Bible is correct and all of the physical evidence (let's just leave the origin of life and the diversity of species out of this one, shall we?)
Originally posted by Jim Scott
4. Genesis 2:6 Shows how man had not yet been formed.
8. In Gen 2, we see that the Lord God is at work, but in Gen 1 it is God. Lord God is different. In this part of the creation, Jesus is working with God to form man, the beasts, and growing a garden and growing a woman from a rib. The words here are "formed" for the man and the beasts, and "made" for the garden and the woman. The beasts are "formed" in front of Adam for him to name them, and so he can behold the creative power of the Lord God. Jesus is at work here partly because of His involvement later to redeem us from the fall of His creation.
(Also, just another common misconception. We are not made in the image of God. Adam was. Then Adam fell, or became fallen man, or a man who was made in a sinful flesh state. We are made in the image of Adam. See Gen 5:1. We die.)
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all
the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful,
and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have
dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the
air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.