I have grown weary of debating the finer points of Evolutionary Theory with those who lack the scientific knowledge to measure the boiling point of water, so let's try debating the other end of this issue: The Creation Myth.

If Genesis and the Bible are truly the 'Infallible Word of God', i.e. the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, then God is intentionally deceiving us by leaving evidence to the contrary in His Creation, the Earth and the Universe in which it resides. By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two). Meanwhile, the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!

Now if the Bible is correct and all of the physical evidence (let's just leave the origin of life and the diversity of species out of this one, shall we?) is false, then God is deceiving us... lying to us... leading us away from the Truth... Hmm, I seem to remember that being the purview of Satan, Lucifer, the Devil, the Serpent, or whatever name you wish to use for that entity... I don't care how you slice it, it is the equivalent of holding up an apple and stating, "THIS IS AN ORANGE!!!"

So, since there is absolutely ZERO evidence supporting the Creation Myth, and it must be taken on Faith alone, why would the Creator intentionally try to deceive His children, whom He proclaims to love??? (This out to be good!)

According to the beliefs of Christians and the like, God is here in the hearts of us humans, but this is Satan's World until the end of days when Jesus takes back the Earth. So Satan does whatever he does to get people to stop believing in Him.

I guess I wonder why you would even bother debating creationists at all. In my experience their embrace of creationism results from their religious beliefs and is not the result of any careful thinking through of the facts or evidence. I assure you that have counted many creationists among my relatives, and I have had many opportunities to interact with them on this topic. I say "interact" because they initially started out as debates but over the years, I realized that I was dealing with people who "believed" in creationism because this is what they were told to believe by their pastors and other members of their faith communities. So debates evolved into more question and answer periods where I took full advantage of their desire to "witness" to me to get a full and detailed explanation of what they believed and why.

One of the more interesting things I noted was that "evidence" was a rather nebulous concept and the the standards of proof were always mutable. I would be told there there was no evidence for something in evolution, but when I pointed out that in fact there was evidence, and when I presented this evidence, I would often be told one of the following.

1. It's not really evidence. For example, I was often told that there was no fossil record to prove evolution, but when I presented the fossil record I would be told that fossils are not evidence for anything since no one knows what they really are.

2. The real evidence that proves creationism is hidden or destroyed by the secular humanists who control science and their phoney evidence substituted as part of a giant Darwinian conspiracy. So you can only believe the evidence that originates from creationists.

3. Evidence against creationism or for evolution is of the devil and proof of how desperate the forces of darkness are to snuff out the truth.. so the more evidence you have against creationism, the more you prove it to be right.

I no longer even bother with creationists. Or flat earthers. They do seem to be a uniquely American cultural phenomenon as a off shoot of this odd form of fundamentalism that is also part of the American culture. Better things to do with my time.



[edit on 23-12-2009 by metamagic]

To my knowledge it's man that has put a time / date to things , not God . I can never remember God saying one way or the other as to the age of the earth .

Seems to me it's man dating it just like man puts " peaces " together and comes up with evolution . Each is looking at there " evidence " and drawing there conclusions based on there understanding of what they believe to be most correct .

To make such a claim that has been made here , that God says the earth is 6000 years old is simply not the case , as someone who knows how to measure the boiling point of water should know , hmmm perhaps a mistake was made on the altitude calculation ?

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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two). Meanwhile, the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!

Well what if those who wrote the Bible were really bad at math. Huh?

Maybe they forgot a digit or two, or were confused by all the zeros, or forgot to carry the one. Could have happened...

Well, if you read the Bible, God comes off as a liar pretty much at the start. Read Genesis Chapter 3.

In it, God tells the kids that they will die if they “eat of the fruit or touch it, lest you die” (paraphrase) Gen 3:3. The serpent tells them that’s a load of B.S. It turns out the snake is telling the truth; because Adam and Eve both obviously touch and eat the fruit and don’t die. Then, God gets scared (yeah, I said scared – read the whole chapter and the bits that follow) and curses them and kicks them out of Eden.

God establishes himself, very early on, in the Bible as someone not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Makes you wonder about the rest…


[edit on 23-12-2009 by passenger]

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
Wow. It didn't mean they would just drop dead. It meant they would become mortal, and eventually die. Because before she ate the fruit she was immortal.

Well, maybe. But the problem gets compounded when you factor in the second tree. That seems to really upset God about the potential of what might happen. It also exposes his lie because He admits they are only one more bite away from becoming “like one of us*”

*The whole ‘us’ thing is another problem within itself.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
If Genesis and the Bible are truly the 'Infallible Word of God', i.e. the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, then God is intentionally deceiving us by leaving evidence to the contrary in His Creation, the Earth and the Universe in which it resides. By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two). Meanwhile, the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!

So, since there is absolutely ZERO evidence supporting the Creation Myth, and it must be taken on Faith alone, why would the Creator intentionally try to deceive His children, whom He proclaims to love??? (This out to be good!)

The bible is not the Word of God. Christ is. He was also the second Adam. The time table discussed in the scriptures was regarding the time from Adam, not the beginning of the world. There is a large amount of evidence that creationism is both just as plausible and just as nonsensical as evolution. Neither side understands or knows the limits of their understanding. Both sides are arrogant and tired.

Your question is mean spirited and not asked in such a way that even remotely indicates that you care to learn someone elses' view. I would be interested to meet you and talk to you about this calmly, but otherwise, I am sure that no answer would please you.