Creationist Conundrum: For Genesis to be true, God would have to be the Great Deceiver (Satan)!

I have grown weary of debating the finer points of Evolutionary Theory with those who lack the scientific knowledge to measure the boiling point of water, so let's try debating the other end of this issue: The Creation Myth.

If Genesis and the Bible are truly the 'Infallible Word of God', i.e. the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, then God is intentionally deceiving us by leaving evidence to the contrary in His Creation, the Earth and the Universe in which it resides. By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two). Meanwhile, the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!

Now if the Bible is correct and all of the physical evidence (let's just leave the origin of life and the diversity of species out of this one, shall we?) is false, then God is deceiving us... lying to us... leading us away from the Truth... Hmm, I seem to remember that being the purview of Satan, Lucifer, the Devil, the Serpent, or whatever name you wish to use for that entity... I don't care how you slice it, it is the equivalent of holding up an apple and stating, "THIS IS AN ORANGE!!!"

So, since there is absolutely ZERO evidence supporting the Creation Myth, and it must be taken on Faith alone, why would the Creator intentionally try to deceive His children, whom He proclaims to love??? (This out to be good!)

According to the beliefs of Christians and the like, God is here in the hearts of us humans, but this is Satan's World until the end of days when Jesus takes back the Earth. So Satan does whatever he does to get people to stop believing in Him.

reply to post by kingoftheworld


Satan did not create the 'Heavens and the Earth', so the original question still stands. Nice smoke and mirrors, though!

I guess I wonder why you would even bother debating creationists at all. In my experience their embrace of creationism results from their religious beliefs and is not the result of any careful thinking through of the facts or evidence. I assure you that have counted many creationists among my relatives, and I have had many opportunities to interact with them on this topic. I say "interact" because they initially started out as debates but over the years, I realized that I was dealing with people who "believed" in creationism because this is what they were told to believe by their pastors and other members of their faith communities. So debates evolved into more question and answer periods where I took full advantage of their desire to "witness" to me to get a full and detailed explanation of what they believed and why.

One of the more interesting things I noted was that "evidence" was a rather nebulous concept and the the standards of proof were always mutable. I would be told there there was no evidence for something in evolution, but when I pointed out that in fact there was evidence, and when I presented this evidence, I would often be told one of the following.

1. It's not really evidence. For example, I was often told that there was no fossil record to prove evolution, but when I presented the fossil record I would be told that fossils are not evidence for anything since no one knows what they really are.

2. The real evidence that proves creationism is hidden or destroyed by the secular humanists who control science and their phoney evidence substituted as part of a giant Darwinian conspiracy. So you can only believe the evidence that originates from creationists.

3. Evidence against creationism or for evolution is of the devil and proof of how desperate the forces of darkness are to snuff out the truth.. so the more evidence you have against creationism, the more you prove it to be right.

I no longer even bother with creationists. Or flat earthers. They do seem to be a uniquely American cultural phenomenon as a off shoot of this odd form of fundamentalism that is also part of the American culture. Better things to do with my time.



[edit on 23-12-2009 by metamagic]

To my knowledge it's man that has put a time / date to things , not God . I can never remember God saying one way or the other as to the age of the earth .

Seems to me it's man dating it just like man puts " peaces " together and comes up with evolution . Each is looking at there " evidence " and drawing there conclusions based on there understanding of what they believe to be most correct .

To make such a claim that has been made here , that God says the earth is 6000 years old is simply not the case , as someone who knows how to measure the boiling point of water should know , hmmm perhaps a mistake was made on the altitude calculation ?

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two). Meanwhile, the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!

Well what if those who wrote the Bible were really bad at math. Huh?

Maybe they forgot a digit or two, or were confused by all the zeros, or forgot to carry the one. Could have happened...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Um, not I think you misunderstood me. God created everything, but if Satan currently has control over everything on Earth, then why couldn't he distort the "facts" that we know about the earth today.

reply to post by Max_TO


I suggest rereading Genesis. It gives the complete lineage of Adam (and in some cases ages). This isn't some number I came up with, it's the number that New Earth Creationists love to throw about...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Yes , so it's man's interpretation , not a statement made by God .


Edit to add ....

My mistake I see by the title of the thread that you were directing this question to those of the " Creation theory " and at no where did you make this a evolution vs God thread my mistake was in judging as such , hence my mistake .

You have a valid question as stated considering the " group " you have posed the question to .

I withdraw my earlier statement and reserve it for the time I see a evolution vs God thread posing the same question .

See I got the altitude calculation missed up , my bad .





[edit on 23-12-2009 by Max_TO]

reply to post by Max_TO


Well, unless Adam and some of his decendents lived to be millions of years old, then we are back to the original statement in the OP... And do you really want to get into the human interpretation argument? I can use that one to discredit the entire Bible...

Well, if you read the Bible, God comes off as a liar pretty much at the start. Read Genesis Chapter 3.

In it, God tells the kids that they will die if they “eat of the fruit or touch it, lest you die” (paraphrase) Gen 3:3. The serpent tells them that’s a load of B.S. It turns out the snake is telling the truth; because Adam and Eve both obviously touch and eat the fruit and don’t die. Then, God gets scared (yeah, I said scared – read the whole chapter and the bits that follow) and curses them and kicks them out of Eden.

God establishes himself, very early on, in the Bible as someone not telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Makes you wonder about the rest…


[edit on 23-12-2009 by passenger]

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I have a question for you: Why the hell are you attacking Christianity? People never attack any other religion, and so Christianity is exclusively picked on.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


See my last post , made an edit to it .

However not going off topic I will simply once again say , it's mans interpretation and will also add that the question of God is something that can not be understood any better then evolution in the stated parameters . However , the context that the question has been formed and to the group that the question has been posed to , it is a fair question

reply to post by passenger


Wow. It didn't mean they would just drop dead. It meant they would become mortal, and eventually die. Because before she ate the fruit she was immortal.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


An investigation into the Bible that treats it as just another cycle of mythology would reveal that this "Satan" chap is in fact an agent of god, who's purpose is to test mankind's loyalty to that god. Similar to other collective "Police entrapment" gods in many other cultures.

The real creationist conundrum is simply that their claim makes no sense and has no corroborative evidence.

reply to post by kingoftheworld


Because in North America, Australia, and Europe, where the majority of the world's internet-using population lives, it's not Hinduism that is trying to throw science out of science class. 'Round these here parts, Muslims are noisy, but have no influence. Guarantee you, nine out of ten Americans believe that "Jains" are what a person from Alabama calls his pants.

Here in the so-called "Western World", it's Christians who are dominant and (unduly) influential. So, stop wringing your hands and acting picked-on.

On edit: You might also want to note that Genesis isn't the sole property of Christians. You share that stuff with two other religions. Three, if you count Mormonism as independent from Christianity)

[edit on 23-12-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
Wow. It didn't mean they would just drop dead. It meant they would become mortal, and eventually die. Because before she ate the fruit she was immortal.

Well, maybe. But the problem gets compounded when you factor in the second tree. That seems to really upset God about the potential of what might happen. It also exposes his lie because He admits they are only one more bite away from becoming “like one of us*”

*The whole ‘us’ thing is another problem within itself.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
If Genesis and the Bible are truly the 'Infallible Word of God', i.e. the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, then God is intentionally deceiving us by leaving evidence to the contrary in His Creation, the Earth and the Universe in which it resides. By Biblical standards, the Earth (and the whole Universe itself) are only 6,000 years old (give or take a century or two). Meanwhile, the physical evidence says quite a different story. It points to a Universe that is over 13 BILLION years old, and Earth that is over 4 BILLION years old, and that mankind is over 100,000 years old... Quite a difference!

So, since there is absolutely ZERO evidence supporting the Creation Myth, and it must be taken on Faith alone, why would the Creator intentionally try to deceive His children, whom He proclaims to love??? (This out to be good!)

The bible is not the Word of God. Christ is. He was also the second Adam. The time table discussed in the scriptures was regarding the time from Adam, not the beginning of the world. There is a large amount of evidence that creationism is both just as plausible and just as nonsensical as evolution. Neither side understands or knows the limits of their understanding. Both sides are arrogant and tired.

Your question is mean spirited and not asked in such a way that even remotely indicates that you care to learn someone elses' view. I would be interested to meet you and talk to you about this calmly, but otherwise, I am sure that no answer would please you.

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

I have a question for you: Why the hell are you attacking Christianity? People never attack any other religion, and so Christianity is exclusively picked on.

Attacking Christianity is like attacking a hidden cancer. In Western culture we live closest to Christianity so it's the most familiar bane to get rid of. Christian beliefs are from ONE book, the Bible. The Bible is inaccurate but people still grasp onto this ridculous straw of hope. get on with it - spirituality is within us but some men thousands of years ago figured they'd steal spirituality for profit - it's still pretty much the same today.

I gave up Christianity 20 years ago - BEST thing I ever did.