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Fighting for pollution? The forgotten side of climate change

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posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 02:00 PM
Climate change has become a heated discussion on many boards and around water coolers yet for me I get angry because of the basics of the argument. I personally don't know how the whole global warming or even cooling will work out for mankind but if you talk to people, you will get many saying that something is going on and its a change from the norm. In the NW our weather has been nuts for the past 2 years with high temps in summer and much colder temps in winter along with much more violent storms.

Because the government has stepped in and many people are set to make large sums of cash off going green, the idea of not polluting as much or caring for the environment has become demonized and ridiculed by many. This to me is very sad and example of the people losing out by believing that what they do has no consequences to their environment or their life.

The issue that has been forgotten is that pollution is a bad thing and sure greenhouses gases may or may not have an effect that causes global warming but that doesn't make them good for you or me. If you have seen pictures of city that is dealing with heavy smog its almost sickening to think people live in it. By consuming more resources and not advancing technology we have a negative effect on the ecosystems where the minerals are harvested from. More and more tree's are cut down and many species are lost because of clear cutting or changes in an animals habitat because of pollution. There have been rivers that caught fire and burned for days because of massive pollution and pictures can be found of industrialized areas that would make you think its an apocalyptic picture from the future.

So next time you are arguing about climate change I hope you also stop and think about the non government or money side of the argument and think of the actual negative effects of pollution besides global warming. Those negatives are far worse in my eye's then what al gore talks about and is the real reason we should be trying to be better as a species at consuming resources and abusing our planet. Maybe this will make at least 1 or 2 people stop bragging about no longer recycling or not caring what they consume or throw away to be anti al gore.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 02:16 PM
reply to post by whoshotJR

You're right, the environmental movement should be about cutting back on polution, garbage and protecting animals and wildlife.

The environmental movement was taken over years ago by leftist wackos only interested in increasing govt control over every aspect of our lives.

Because of them, the movement is discredited in the eyes of many.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 02:30 PM
reply to post by FortAnthem

Thanks for the reply! That's a good point. It used to be that people that talked about the environment were called tree huggers but now that get associated with al gore and the man made global warming arguments.

In typical human fashion people try and rebel and that results in people like a 15 year old that just posted on here and was bragging on how much energy he wastes and how much fuel he can burn with his truck.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 02:50 PM
reply to post by whoshotJR

That guy was just ranting because of all the manmade global warming BS spouted by Al Gore & co.

Can't say I blame him. All of their BS makes me want to scream sometimes.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 03:29 PM
reply to post by FortAnthem

It's sad though because he is 15 so it really shows what our teenagers are seeing from their parents and the media. It took generations to realize that cleaning up after ourselves was a good thing and about 2 years of global warming to set it all back.

So much garbage is being thrown from either side that I would bet its hard for kids to even understand it all let alone adults.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 03:34 PM
Excellent points, and a S&F for your trouble!

Yes, pollution is a serious concern. The good news is that technology is progressing, making fuels with less sulfur content, controlling the amount of NOx in the exhausts, and minimalizing carbon monoxide emissions. The bad news is that while all this is going on, the current attempts to paint carbon dioxide as a poison are derailing any attempt to further decrease pollution.

Let's face it: carbon dioxide is a pretty harmless gas, and a necessary component of the atmosphere, both for its slight mitigating effect on temperatures and for its contribution to the food chain via photosynthesis. Sulfur dioxide, on the other hand, is not harmless; it is a deadly poison, and a primary component of acid rain. Soot, mainly from unburned exhaust, is indeed a danger to respiratory systems in animals, including humans. NOx, while itself a natural trace gas, is far and away more affected by man's burning of fossil fuels than carbon dioxide, due to the heat produced in an oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere. The same can be said for methane, a fuel in itself if it could only be captured.

There is no possible way to combust anything containing carbon (and that includes about every combustible fuel known save hydrogen) without creating carbon dioxide. It simply cannot happen. We can remove the sulfur; we can manage heat levels to minimize NOx; we can design to thoroughly burn any ash and soot produced. We can not produce power on the scale civilization needs it without producing carbon dioxide. So what the present argument is saying is that in order to be 'environmentally friendly', we as a society must give up our civilization itself... we must return to pre-industrial living with low life expectancies and meager living conditions.

Of course any sane person will oppose that!

What the issue should be over is how we can each, individually, make a difference. Those differences add up! Things like not buying products with extraneous packaging where possible (saving a few bucks in the process usually), recycling (which would be a huge thing today if only recyclables were sold, even for a pittance, as opposed to people having to sort and give them away for no personal return), re-using things instead of just tossing them (again, saving money), and planting a tree outside or even just a potted plant in their apartment (cheap to do, and if planting something that provides fruit or nuts, it returns that small investment many times over).

You will notice that every method I mentioned could have a positive financial impact on the individual. But nowhere is any positive impact mentioned by those who wish to save us from ourselves. Instead, the impacts are all negative to the individual. More taxation, more regulation, more sacrifice, less energy, higher prices, more lack and want... Sure, everyone should be for that... NOT!

In the end, the real tragedy behind the Global Warming fiasco is not that it is simply that - a fiasco - but rather that it takes center stage, pushing the real solutions off to the side and out of the public eye. When was the last time you heard about acid rain on the MSM? It still falls, you know, admittedly less than at one time, but it does still fall, and it still kills trees. When was the last time you heard about clearcutting on the evening news? Clearcutting is a very inefficient method of logging, as it leaves nothing to rebound and produce another crop. But of course clearcutting continues as long as public land is available for logging without restrictions requiring replanting. And who allows, and even encourages, this? The government; the same government now trying to tell us that everything will be fine if we regulate carbon dioxide with a new hidden tax!

May we survive this fiasco. Never in my days have I seen so much disinformation and propaganda over something that once was considered elementary science. Never in all my born days have I seen TPTB come so dangerously close to full control of the lives of us whom they consider 'peasants'.


posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 04:02 PM
reply to post by TheRedneck

Very good post, you prompted me to think of cap and trade much like Catholics could pay for forgiveness of sins to the church once upon a time. The sins were still committed and who ever the sins were against would still need to deal with the outcome but they were forgiven because of cash.

I can't even begin to think what will set us back on the right track again. If global warming is proved to be a farce ( either the man made part or the whole thing) then people will think even less of taking care of the environment.

I agree with you that more then likely the best way to make an impact if for people to realize a savings or an easier way of life because of the choices they make that also just happen to be good for the environment.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 04:06 PM
I agree with the original poster. People are so distracted by this global warming scandal and whether or not human beings are responsible for it or whether or not it even exists, that they are forgetting what is truly important. Our environment, and our ecosystem and its well being, not only for current inhabitants of earth but future generations as well.

Take a look at pictures in China. The inhabitants all wearing masks just to venture outdoors. Even here in North America. Places like the tar sands in northern Canada that have destroyed ecosystems, poisoned rivers, and screwed with the lives of aboriginals that reside in these areas and rely on the rivers to supply them with clean drinking water. No longer can these people do so. In fact the spike in cancer within these groups is astronomical. Many are dying. Yet oil and the economy seem to be more important than the lives and well being of human beings as well as the wildlife that reside in this area.

In America, many cities are blanketed in smog. Health problems are arising because of this, and very few people want to make any sacrifices to correct the issue.

Something certainly needs to be done, and waiting on the world's governments to fix everything is going to result in a very long wait, indeed.

I think that each of us are capable of making a difference. If we Focused on less consumption, cleaner energy, and holding corporations who ravage the earth's environment in the name of greed accountable, it would certainly be a step in the right direction. Not only for this planet's current inhabitants but also for future generations.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 07:14 PM
reply to post by Matrix777

China was exactly what I was thinking of when I was picturing really bad places on the earth currently.

That site has some amazing pictures of pollution that china has issues with. Some of it makes you really sick. I couldn't imagine living there.

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