Obamacare Slaps $15,000 Annual Fee on Middle Class Families

reply to post by HankMcCoy


If you payed even the remotest attention to this, you would know this has nothing at all to do with healthcare.

Nothing.

reply to post by OrganizedChaos


Excellent post, star for you, 1000 if I could!

Nice to see someone thinking instead of reacting.

reply to post by seethelight


You are calculating only the cost of the plans, and this does not include the self employed, who have no co-payor employer. People that are self employed will have to bear the brunt of the cost, and people that own their own small businesses will be driven out of business.

There is a whole lot you leave out, including the additional TAX on top of the insurance coverage.

The quotes you are making is for employer sponsored insurance who helps with co-pays. If the employer opts to not provide insurance, in the event the public option makes it back into the bill, then this will hugely increase the amount people will have to pay for self coverage.

Edit for typo

[edit on 24-12-2009 by Libertygal]

Originally posted by Chance321
reply to post by Libertygal

 

There are Democrats jumping ship left and right now, and several in the news stating they have been threatened and silenced by the WH. Yes, I said Dems.


Don't believe it. This is just their shell game. They voted for it, now they start the lieing game to try an save their jobs. Hope no one believes them.

I agree to an extent, most certainly. When I say jumping ship though, I am not referring to ones just party defecting, but the 6 or 7 that have also announced they were retiring next year before the elections. No matters in trust there.

The defectors, naw, he is probably just escaping hoping for re-election next year, but the fact he is trying to distance himself should speak volumes.

Originally posted by nine0099thousand
So, upper class families will have to pay what.. like 200k a year?

Whose butt did you pull that figure out of?
The article said $15,000 per year per middle class family.
Did you read it as $15,000 a month perhaps?

Screw Obama

Only if I can hang onto his ears.

Originally posted by groingrinder
Since congresscritters are so hot to give all of us poor people health care, why don't they just give all of us the same medical benefits they enjoy at the same cost that they pay for it. It only seems fair to me.

When the government cuts private insurers out of the loop, modern medicine suddenly becomes much cheaper.
But the private insurers are terrified of that, so they pay people to brainwash us into believing that's socialism, and will destroy America.

Keeping people sick is, at present, a lucrative industry.

I would be very distressed if this were true.

Fortunately, I'm fine on this lovely Christmas Eve, because I don't believe a word of it.

No offense to OP.

All anyone has to do to get a real eye opener is to actually read and comprehend what the letter to Senator Bayh from the CBO says:

Link to Letter from CBO

Go to the last page and examine the tables there. After a little simple math you can see that there's something terribly wrong. Look at the huge jump in Premium cost going from the bracket of 100-150% of poverty level to 150-200% of poverty level.

By the way, $7.00 per hour working full time, is 134% of the poverty level for 2009.

$7.80 per hour jumps you over the 150% level.

reply to post by OrganizedChaos


I read some of the bill until I came to the part that tells how increases in insurance no matter if you have one already will affect people (page 3).

Also it said that healthy people will be paying more for insurance than those that are not, what this means? you are to be penalized for been healthy and young?.

This is just the biggest joke play on the nations citizens and is plain and clear that is going to cost more.

Any America citizens that values its freedom should fight for this with teeth and nails even it you have health insurance your premiums will go up anyway.

reply to post by marg6043


This is an absolute monstrosity!

Don't you like how they passed this on Christmas Eve. I guess they wanted to give everyone a cool-down period.

Yup, they passed it. The funny thing is, why is it that the government didn't ask us if we wanted such a change?

This is yet another hole for someone like me to throw money into, just like auto insurance, that I never use. I take care of my health with inexpensive vitamins and supplements. I will not go to a mainstream doctor and ask him for expensive advice, or an expensive drug, to maintain my health. The only time I will go to a mainstream doctor is if something is physically broken and it needs to be physically repaired.

This healthcare plan also puts a tax on the wealthy. Why should a person have to be hit with more fees because he has more money than the rest? This person worked for that money, he did what it takes to be wealthy. Why should he be forced to give it away?

I wish I could say it was just the Democrats causing the problems and all we had to do is throw them out. But, if you remember Bush did some bad shiz in office too.

If we are to have people rule over us, then we need people in office that actually care about us, and want to help this country become greater.

Troy

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


None taken... I appreciate any and all opinions personally. If it is true... we are all in a world of hurt. If it isn't... No harm no foul.

Just putting the information I find in here for discussion.

Happy Holidays to everyone BTW!

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by groingrinder
Since congresscritters are so hot to give all of us poor people health care, why don't they just give all of us the same medical benefits they enjoy at the same cost that they pay for it. It only seems fair to me.

When the government cuts private insurers out of the loop, modern medicine suddenly becomes much cheaper.
But the private insurers are terrified of that, so they pay people to brainwash us into believing that's socialism, and will destroy America.

Keeping people sick is, at present, a lucrative industry.

Very well put.
If the people demanded that the for-profit health care industry be converted to a single-payer/not-for-profit arrangement, even care for the sickest individuals would be affordable.
But of course our corporate fascist government could never do that for its citizens.

www.pnhp.org...

When I need a heart surgeon, or a lympatic doctor,
chances are I have no time to shop around and find
the best one at the most reasonable price.
I would be in such a world of trouble,
I would pretty much take whomever the hospital recommened.
General practicioners are great, I BTW have a wonderful one.
Their expertise seems to only be of a simplistic nature these days though.
Chances are if I need a specialist I would have to get a referral
and then take whomever my doctor recommended.

Is this just me or does anyone else see the problem here?

With no caps on fees, and private hospitals just
renting the room, with everthing extra,
from every needle to bandades ,
and the real money makers are the doctors
that are associated with whatever hospital you entered,
( ok.runon sentence:p ),
there can never be a competent
health care program until these and many more issues,
such as pharmacticals, are addressed!

Maybe today was a baby step, now that every American
is legally obligated ,let's make everyone involved obligated
to provide the best care possible at a reasonable rate!!

I hope they got what they wanted for Christmas....

No one ever said that socialism was going do be cheap, did they?

Actually they did in a way, as they claim this plan would be deficit neutral, so as far as the government is concerned it is cheap, because the middle class and small business can pay for this... Under the concept of "redistribution of wealth" a theme the Obama administration has in the base of its entire agenda.

They want to redistribute wealth and eliminate the middle class in America, to eliminate small business, and globally through energy reforms redistribute the wealth of our nation to other nations.

This should come as no surprise to anyone who has done any research into the agenda of the extreme left throughout history....

I'm sure many of them in congress and within the Obama administration are orgasmic over what has finally happened... It is THEIR dreams coming true.

Wait until cap and trade passes and you'll know what it means to lose everything... If you haven't already, or have between now and then.

There will be only two classes of Americans .... The minority elite with control and power over finance, business, commerce, international trade, government (all branches), and nearly every aspect of the economy.

Then there is everyone else.

Bow before your new almighty government, then remain bent over and turn around so they can screw you even more.

reply to post by MahNameABorat


You are so wrong is not funny, 90 K a year doesn't get you very far this days my friend, I can testify for that, they only thing it gets you is a higher income bracket to be gouged by the federal and local government, after all somebody has to pay for those that don't have any income.

If this passes, I am filing lawsuit against the government and Congress. You will read about me in the news.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
People who get their panties in a wad over articles like these are also probably buying the Inquirer and believing that Hitler is still alive and well.

Seriously.

You deserve the high blood pressure it is bringing you.

Sunshine. Are you on the same page as everyone else reading? What part of this is going to destroy everything thats left do you not understand?

This is WAY bigger than Obama or the next flavor of the month (can you say "night soil"?). These folks are trying to put the stake in the heart of our country.

There are only 3 boxes to vote from... ballot, jury, and lets hope we dont go to the third.

God, I get so annoyed at this plan. I do not want health insurance forced on me. I don't want it. I have seen enough "care" and the damage it sometimes brings. Yes, doctors do perform some miracles, god bless them for the good they do perform. But I have no intention of chaining myself to a drug bottle and regular doctor and hospital visits. I have no need for stupid insurance to cover overpriced poisons like "anti-depressants," they should actually be called "depressants," but that a whole other discussion. I don't need insurance to cover doctor visits, because I don't freakin' need to go.

I'll go to the doctor when I really need it. And at that point, I would like to think I have enough money to cover it.

You know what I really want. I want health care that I don't have to pay for the rest of my life like a credit card, like insurance is. If I get a bill, it should be fair and not overinflated. Something that most anyone can pay, and in a fair payment plan, if need be. Done. When you are done paying for the bill, it's over.

Why in the hell does hospital care cost so much in the first place? Sometimes, the best care is many many times less expensive than hospital visits, and you actually take care of the problem. It's called educating yourself, and learning to take care of your body. Mainstream doctors typically aren't going to tell you how to effectively do this. They aren't going to tell you how to prevent clogged arteries, for example. They will typically just give you something that maybe helps relieve the symptoms, but tears something else up in the process, tell you the cholesterol manure speech that doesn't help you, and they wait for you to come back for that multi-thousand dollar cardiovascular surgery.

The care you get is far over-priced, bottom line. Insurance/medical care is this huge money making machine. (Nothing wrong with making money, but....) Health care should never cost more than most people can afford, otherwise you are just sucking the population dry. I think there is a lot of wasted money in the health care system. Somewhere in the system, there is a massive amount of money gushing out. There is something just not right with the system. Why else would you have things like the $100 handshake? How on earth is a few minutes worth, say, $100, or whatever it is nowadays?

So, now middle and upper classed folks gotta have some more fees to cover other people, and people are, I guess, going to be forced to buy health insurance? How is this the solution? Some people had the balls and determination to build a good life for themselves, but they seem like they get punished for it. Why?

We gotta get our country back to work, that what we really need to do. We need a prosperous, wealthy, and productive country. Not a forced health care plan. The messed up thing is, Obama didn't try to address the jobless rate, no, instead he crams a health care plan down our throat. People who are doing well in life, have good jobs, and a good life, are probably less likely to have health problems. So, basically, news networks like CNN suppress the society with bad news of economic problems, etc., and the health care system is there pump us full of drugs because we don't feel good about things. And, everybody has to pay for this monstrosity.

Troy

Just a few points that seem glossed over.

According to this the poverty level for cited is wrong. The federal guidelines of "Poverty" are noted on number of people in household who are Dependant.

A family of 4 would be the 88,160/year. But for a single person it is 43,320.
It seemed implied that only those making more than 88k/year would be impacted. With this in mind single people making over 20/hour and had no employer insurance would be affected. Not those making minimum wage. Minimum wage yearly = 15,080. Poverty is 10,830 (for a single person).

Middle class is defined as 35,000-75,000 for the household.
Median income (in 2007) for was a tad over 50k/year.

From an economic census article on wikipedia

According to the United States Census Bureau, the pretax median household income in 2007 was $50,233. The median ranged from $68,080 in Maryland to $36,338 in Mississippi.[37]
In 2007, the median real annual household income rose 1.3% to $50,233, according to the Census Bureau.[38] The real median earnings of men who worked full time, year-round climbed between 2006 and 2007, from $43,460 to $45,113. For women, the corresponding increase was from $33,437 to $35,102. The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) was $26,036 in 2006.[39]
The recently released US Income Mobility Study showed economic growth resulted in rising incomes for most taxpayers over the period from 1996 to 2005. Median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent after adjusting for inflation. The real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers increased over this period. Income mobility of individuals was considerable in the U.S. economy during the 1996 through 2005 period with roughly half of taxpayers who began in the bottom quintile moving up to a higher income group within 10 years. In addition, the median incomes of those initially in the lower income groups increased more than the median incomes of those initially in the higher income groups.[40]

This means the majority of middle class-will not be affected.
Coupled up with the clause: unless the insurance cannot be afforded means that this is being blown way out of proportions.

If you have a job paying a minimum of 40k/year (and are single) chances are very good that you have employer based insurance.
If you do not have insurance and are buying random crap like bigscreen TVs, constant computer upgrades etc. etc.. Generally being irresponsible with money-then you could get nailed. However if your income is going out for bills: from Mortgages and credit cards etc. Then there is an escape clause even for them.

This bill has no teeth. The only usefull aspect (presuming the final draft includes it) is that insurance companies will no longer be able to get out of bills by claiming 'pre-existing condition'.

Waste of time.

(edit)
bleh, didn't mean "cited wrong" I meant disingenuous. 88k/year means hourly rage of $42/hour for the working members. Fairly uncommon for the 'middle class'.

(edit 2)
My sister and husband have 4 kids. They would have to make just about $119,000/year or more to be impacted.
[edit on 25-12-2009 by lordtyp0]

[edit on 25-12-2009 by lordtyp0]