Originally posted by sirnex
I don't personally know what consciousness is or is not or if it can ever be proven to be one way or the other. I just find it very hypocritical to
poo poo against science and then turn around and use science to prove their own conjectures and then turn around and poo poo on the science that
they're using when it's demonstrated that this is not what the science is saying and then turn around again and say it was God.
I can relate to the confusion. Science needs to grow to accomodate it, not be rejected as an invalid way to investigate reality.
I can say I have some idea about consciousness and qualia but no idea how to just hand the insight over in words. Every time I try it just has a
certain mystical sound to it. It ends up sounding circular and contradictory but it really is not. I'd like to tear the mystery away and will keep
working on doing so.
As (vaguely) outlined below, this knowing is somewhat double-edged and thus potentially disasterous for the unprepared mind, perhaps especially one
intolerant of ambiguity or one uncomfortable retaining understanding that is quite likely irreducible.
OK, who's God? Your personal definition? The Greek Gods? The Egyptian Gods? The God or Gods that might be worshiped around other worlds in the
No, it's nothing so anthropomorphic. Any being like that is not of ultimate truth. You'll never see me worshipping anything, not even if it came and
knocked on my door.
What seems to be the case, truely truly the case is that this "thing" that some would say is "God" really is UNDEFINABLE and INDESCRIBABLE . Any
attempts to do so (even my previous assessment) tends to reduce it into the domain of limited knowledge. Noone's trying to pull your leg or get out
of anything. Its just an exceedingly difficult position to be in relative to those that haven't experienced.
But alas, I lack intelligence due to honesty. I am closed minded because I am more open minded than they are. I am arrogant because I fight
against their false claims and demonstrate those claims to be false.
I'm afraid I have to go back in the thread to fully understand the debate between Indigo_Child and yourself and each others' objections and points.
From what I did read, I feel I can relate to and process both sides of it. It seemed to be starting to blow up into contentious hostilities (us vs.
them) and it doesn't have to go there.
I'm just one sad little boy who doesn't know diddly squat and everyone else is right and uses pixie dust to make cupcakes.
That's actually a well and humble attitude in my book-- "I don't know". Is that how you honestly approach seeking or is that simply sarcasm? That
is only an inquiry.
I, don't know, other than my own personal experiences and their relationship to other experiences. I am as my human self an impermanent event that
will one day pass.
Perhaps Buddhism is your cup of tea if you would want to personally explore spirituality without many of the elements you seem to find objectionable,
except perhaps some sects. It's really more of a metaphysic. It compells no belief in a diety. It doesn't say to kill the nonbeliever (which in
truth is actually an allegory to "kill the nonbeliever" in one's self by proving it to one's self, naturally the profane misinterpret such a
statement to mean "go kill others who don't subscribe to your dogma"). It does leave itself open to falsification. I wouldn't recommend conflating
everything with your perception of Abrahamic faiths or else in my view you're denying yourself something worthwhile.
You might consider that in that "I don't know" one piece should be added is that many do have insights that go beyond current formal understanding
and trying to congeal them into contemporary encoding is very, very difficult and frustrating. Having personally experienced to some degree, I tend to
understand what they are trying to convey but only because I have a grasp of the thoughts that give rise to the language employed. The words really
don't have the necessary import on their own, precisely because of its irreducibility. I understand the need to make sense of it and the urgency to
My best hunch is that religion served to provide quick and easy ways of interpreting this advanced insight that was far beyond intellectual
understanding of the times. Slowly our knowledge will bridge the gap and the distortions reduced in communication.
If you set upon that dicipline yourself perhaps you would come to know and relate, even if you don't currently believe it to be useful-- perhaps you
would ultimately. Contrary to some belief systems, it isn't "special" or unattainable by some select chosen few. It's simply a case of if you
don't play, you definitely don't win
As far as pixie dust cupcakes, if I find a recipe I'll share it online. Zombies love cupcakes since they make a wonderful dessert after the brain