The TRUTH of Freemasonry

reply to post by DrJay1975

I'd like to see the transcripts of that "religious organization" quote made by the Grand Lodge of NY. Also, the Grand Orient is not a recognized body of Freemasonry and is a thorn in the side of regular Freemasonry.

Masonry doesn't teach to worship false idols, they teach to follow their own God in their own way.

Everything I have experienced in Freemasonry has strengthened my Christian faith, but what do you expect from religious zealots? IMO, they wouldn't know Christianity if it hit them upside the head. Freemasonry doesn't level out religious figures or their doctrine, it simply doesn't allow it inside the Lodge. You must be religious to join, but religion and politics is never talked about within the Lodge. The only thing is levels is the Brothers. It isn't that hard of a concept to grasp. Nor does Freemasonry teach you dogma by which way you will get to Heaven.

Too many people today just don't get the concept of tolerance, something Jesus taught, but so many of his so called followers don't do. Freemasonry and Christianity is only incompatible to the zealots.

[edit on 27-1-2010 by KSigMason]

Originally posted by DrJay1975
Everything I've read leads me to believe that masonry isn't compatible with any christian religon.

If Masonry were a religion, you'd have a point. Unfortunately for your argument, it isn't so your point is moot. It's a fraternity, a social grouping focused on making good men of all stripes better by focusing on their shared core beliefs and not antagonising the differences by dwelling on them.

It's compatible with Christianity; it just that it isn't incompatible with other religions.

Originally posted by DrJay1975
Jesus goes from everything to nothing. He's now the same as Mohammed.

The only way Jesus goes to zero is if he goes to zero in your heart because his name isn't being praised at all moments and every undertaking in which case, we have the same problem with football games, grocery stores and bank ATMs.

Originally posted by DrJay1975
The bible and all of the other religons holy books are equal.

Since Masonry isn't a religion, I guess not showing disrespect to a fellow's beliefs is a bad thing? I mean, I still get to consider Masonic parables in light of my beliefs as an Anglican and our SW gets to do likewise in light of his as a Sikh and one of our PMs as a Jew. But seems you'd rather have us at each other's throats proclaiming the superiority of our respective beliefs, would you?

And you wonder why religion and politics aren't to be spoken of in Lodge?

Originally posted by DrJay1975
You can now get to heaven by your deeds rather than the salvation of Jesus...

Straw man alert! Masonic teachings make no pronouncement of the kind! The tenets of your faith dictate that and nothing changes when you walk in the door of the Lodge. You're just expected to show your fellow a modicum of basic human respect.

Is that really such a deal-breaker?

Originally posted by DrJay1975
I don't absolutely disagree with everything Freemasonry teaches nor do I agree with everything the church teaches, but to me it's fairly obvious that the 2 are not compatible.

Interesting phraseology. So what you're actually saying is that you disagree with most everything Freemasonry teaches and agree with most everything the church (I'm taking a guess and assuming that you mean the Catholic Church [there are others donchaknow?]) teaches. Glad you finally came clean in your last sentence. But it's also quite clear that you haven't taken one New Testament teaching to heart either and it's particularly basic:

Matthew 22:35-40

"Love thy neighbour as thyself"

Christianity and Freemasonry are connected and related. Christianity gives the choice between good and bad. Although some of the traditions of the church are against the teachings of the Bible, this challenges an individual to think about the choice and make their own decision or fall in line with everyone else. The problem is things in the church are often not readily accepted by everyone, in this case some people overlook such controversial ideas or create their own idea in its place. The problem with that is that if people are not believing in the same thing in the religion because some things are too controversial for example thinking about eating christ's flesh and drinking christ's blood is a bit much for most people. then what are people believing in? Do they understand the words? Not simply falling in line with tradition. It is called a book of questions. As a kid I always was curious why people had not written a book of answers. Why have people not created a systematic analysis of the Bible and all related texts to find the logic pattern that would be associated with all the morals of all the stories. If people do not understand the words then by default they do not know what they are believing in or worshiping that is a false idol. If people are already confused enough to believe in something but not know what it is then are they willing to be lead or excluded from information like pawns? The problem is if people have not realized that drinking any persons blood let alone a saviour's blood is not ok to do, it is not ok to eat the flesh of another person. I see it as a test if people are willing to eat their savior, even symbolically then they have not applied the previous morals from the Bible. It is not ok to eat people.
Genesis 9 : 4

It is not ok to Kill people. I would think the savior would be someone people would want alive. So what can we learn from our last experience so we can better ourselves for the next?

Grand Pumbah

[edit on 13-2-2010 by Coemgen]

reply to post by Coemgen

Symbolism just seems to roll over your head.

Originally posted by the_denv

Originally posted by SoundTheory
Bill Cooper Mystery Babylon Series

search the web for debunking of Bill Cooper and all anyone will bring up is his early UFOlogy which he admits in the Babylon series was mis-information leaked to him. Or his Kennedy assassination theory which is questionable as is anyones on the subject. But when it comes to secret societies and how they operate William Cooper is spot on.

I advise everyone to listen to SoundTheory, go and grab yourself those 42 files and 3.28GB of very interesting audio from the man who was shot dead for spreading the truth.

RIP Bill Cooper

I don't believe the story about Cooper being a martyr to the "truth movement" any more. Not there is hardly any truth in that movement anyway, and hardly ever has been. Cooper may have not been fully frank concerning the claim over UFO disinfo. And a host of other things. Have a listen to this:

www.theparacast.com...

Here too:

www.skepticfiles.org...


As regards the majority of the discusion over the past eight pages or so, Freemasony is a very interesting topic of study, and so too other societies with secrets and clandestine groups. Such studies do have some relevance to the world at large, to greater and lesser degrees. But to really analyse what may be going on in the world, what forces are at work, other far more obvious groups perhaps need to be looked at. Though I don't think there is a single unified group "ruling the world," there are a number of vested interests with their greedy fingers in the geo-political pie, with eyes toward global governance and a unipolar world. It wasn't so long ago that I invested a certain amount of belief in the position of Freemasonry and its various constitutions on the world scene, and whilst I think such influence is not negligible today there are far more important groups, and crucially, more salient political philosophies and motivations worth investigating. The advance of rampant corporatism globally, the global creeping surveillance panopticon, the rise of private military contractors, eco-fascism, environmental disasters seemingly ignored because of the anthropogenic global warming hysteria, the neo-cons and their Zionist bias, actual and real Islamic fundamentalism and terrorist cells (despite the belief endemic in the conspiracy community that it doesn't really exist, unfortunately it does, and American foreign policy has advanced its growth), etc, etc.

The following websites include such coverage and analysis:

Centre for Research on Globalization.

John Pilger.

Institute for the Study of Globalization and Covert Politics.

Voltaire.net.

RINF News - Independent News Media.

Media Lens.

Craig Murray.

Rebel Reports.

Conspiracy Archive.

Conspiracy Archive Blog.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Coemgen

 

Symbolism just seems to roll over your head.

Why would people want to symbolize eating a person? Was there not enough to go around the first time... Like everyone wants a taste?

Please explain

reply to post by Coemgen

You need to do some research on the Eucharist and Transubstantiation. Also read the Gospel of Matthew.

If I understand correctly, you are saying that you think people should actively think about consuming human flesh and drinking human blood, even though the Bible says not to do that?

I would like to thank you for posting the videos, and when I am not in danger of going over our allowed bandwidth (I have REALLY been on the internet a LOT) I will definitely be watching them.

I do not know a whole lot about the Freemasons, I do however know my grandfather, great grandfather, and great great grandfather. I KNOW they were good men, and I trust THEIR judgement. I found out my great grandfather was a 32nd degree Freemason and my grandmother, great grandmother etc were with the Eastern Stars. And recently my daughter was invited to join the Rainbow Girls, so this is good timing.

Again thank you.

Casing

reply to post by Coemgen

So you didn't do any research? And from the looks of it, never have fully read the Bible.

KSigMason

Originally posted by Coemgen
If I understand correctly, you are saying that you think people should actively think about consuming human flesh and drinking human blood, even though the Bible says not to do that?

You did not answer my question.

I am waiting.

I have read the book. It appears that you have not read the Bible.

You speak of heresay.

I speak of accounts of my own life.



[edit on 16-2-2010 by Coemgen]

The truth about freemasonry is that no one really knows the entire truth about free masonry, not even the top free masons know the entire truth, just bits and pieces. People claim that the masons are behind this or that but to generalise like that is the worst mistake you can make. Free masonry is very deep routed and is linked with so many civilizations across the world. There may well be masons in very high places pulling the strings but that's not to say masonry is founded on evil, in fact it says more about the human condition rather than masonry.

reply to post by Coemgen

For your reading pleasure:

Matthew 26:26 - And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Mark 14:22 - And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

1 Corinthians 11:23-26

- For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

- And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

- After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

- For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

So no, transubstantiation is not heresy.

reply to post by KSigMason

Originally posted by Coemgen
You speak of heresay.
[edit on 16-2-2010 by Coemgen]

Heresay

not

Originally posted by KSigMasonheresy.

These WORD s are important. It might get you to think, I hope so.

1 Corinthians 11:23

11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

"keep the ordinances as I delivered them to you."

11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

"this is not to eat the Lord's supper."

11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

"in eating everyone taketh ... his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken."


11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

"That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread"

11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come.

11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

So who ever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

"guilty of the body and blood of the Lord."

11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

Let a person decide if they will eat of that bread and drink of that cup.

"examine himself"

11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

"damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

"many are weak and sickly among you"

11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

If we make the right decision for ourself someone else does not need to tell us later.

11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

tarry - stand with each other

When my people come together to eat , stand with each other for another

11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

"And if any man hunger, let him eat at home;that ye come not together unto condemnation."

"And the rest will I set in order when I come."

It says you should not eat christ literally or symbolically. And I can explain that with logic; that is applying past ordinances to new lessons or stories a person can discern the path that fits that logic, a person should not drink alcohol.

If wine ( alcohol ) symbolizes blood. Blood symbolizes alcohol.

Genesis 9:3-4

9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

But the flesh with the life of a person, which is the blood of a person, shall not be eaten.

Following the previous ordinances, it is not ok to drink blood or drink alcohol or eat human flesh, but it is ok to eat bread.

It forces people to think about it. If they do not get it, it is a failsafe to say it is not safe

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Coemgen]

This is a condensed version for easy reading:

"keep the ordinances as I delivered them to you."

"this is not to eat the Lord's supper."

"in eating everyone taketh ... his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken."

"That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread"

"Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me."
"This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me."

For as often as you eat this bread, and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come.

So who ever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

"guilty of the body and blood of the Lord."

Let a person decide if they will eat of that bread and drink of that cup.

"examine himself"

"damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

"many are weak and sickly among you"

If we make the right decision for ourself someone else does not need to tell us later.

When my people come together to eat , stand with each other for another

"And if any man hunger, let him eat at home;that ye come not together unto condemnation."

"And the rest will I set in order when I come."

reply to post by Coemgen

Heresay? You mean hearsay?

We need to clarify this:

Heresy: proposing some unorthodox change to an established system of belief, especially a religion, that conflicts with the previously established opinion of scholars of that belief such as canon.

Hearsay: statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

Which one?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Coemgen

 

Heresay? You mean hearsay?

We need to clarify this:

Heresy: proposing some unorthodox change to an established system of belief, especially a religion, that conflicts with the previously established opinion of scholars of that belief such as canon.

Hearsay: statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.

Which one?

Where are your sources? Mah ha bone

Did you Reading the previous posts??? Or can you not remember.

Sometimes I have a little difficulty remembering the definition of a word. I use a DICtionary; Merriam Webster will suffice.

www.merriam-webster.com...


Main Entry: her·e·sy
Pronunciation: \ˈher-ə-sē, ˈhe-rə-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural her·e·sies
Etymology: Middle English heresie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin haeresis, from Late Greek hairesis, from Greek, action of taking, choice, sect, from hairein to take
Date: 13th century
1 a : adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b : denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c : an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2 a : dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b : an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards

Main Entry: hear·say
Pronunciation: \ˈhir-ˌsā\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1532
1 : rumor
2 : hearsay evidence

If you Reading this you might think that rumor and hear say evidence are not defined enough to understand this word.

1.
Main Entry: 1ru·mor
Pronunciation: \ˈrü-mər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English rumour, from Anglo-French, from Latin rumor clamor, gossip; akin to Old English rēon to lament, Sanskrit rauti he roars
Date: 14th century
1 : talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source
2 : a statement or report current without known authority for its truth
3 archaic : talk or report of a notable person or event
4 : a soft low indistinct sound : murmur

2.
Main Entry: hearsay evidence
Function: noun
Date: 1753
: evidence based not on a witness's personal knowledge but on another's statement not made under oath

I think this is what you are thinking is this right?

adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma

Logic is very closely related to philosophy and religion. Heresy is word that denotes an idea that is church dogma.

If we apply logic to the word dogma we see that it is nonsensical. A word must be able to be defined with other words or ideas; it cannot be defined by the same word or idea. That is illogical.

Reading is very important. Why are you asking me what the previous posts read? Honestly, do you understand?

Originally posted by KSigMason

Too many people today just don't get the concept of tolerance, something Jesus taught, but so many of his so called followers don't do. Freemasonry and Christianity is only incompatible to the zealots.

[edit on 27-1-2010 by KSigMason]

Mark 4:21 And He was saying to them, "A lamp is not brought to be put under a basket, is it, or under a bed? Is it not brought to be put on the lampstand?

“Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord. But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ or ‘No, no’; and anything beyond these is of evil” (Matthew 5:33-37).183

PS.: Interesting that masons should have secrecy, don't they? We see all around ATS people with nicks mentioning the order. Everywhere I go I see cars with the compass and square adesive. Just an observation, not a judgment.

infobrazil '.'

My sign is from (-'.'-), the Modern Order of the Rabbit of Alice.

My sign "@&$%#*" is that of hamsters. Glad we're on the same plane.

reply to post by Matthew Dark



There is ruling blood lines that are completely unknown, so yes a faceless entity.

Any name that somone thinks they know to be one of these blood lines merely just know the players to the instruments given to them.