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Germany refuses to return Nefertiti bust to Egypt

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posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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December 22, 2009 Update

German officials have ruled out returning an ancient bust of Queen Nefertiti to Egypt - saying it is too fragile to be transported.

And they have insisted that the bust was acquired legally by the Prussian state nearly a century ago.

Egypt first requested the return of the antiquity in 1930, but successive German governments have refused.

Head of antiquities Zahi Hawass says the bust was smuggled out of Egypt by a German archaeologist in 1913.

Mr Hawass claims the archaeologist, Ludwig Borchardt, disguised its true value by covering it in a coating of clay.

Great beauty

The 3,300-year-old bust is the star attraction of the Egyptian collection at the Neues Museum in Berlin.


www.archaeologynews.org... refuses to return Nefertiti bust to Egypt


The sculpture of Queen Nefertiti is the star attraction in a Berlin museum


Germany should return the sculpture of Queen Neferiti back to it's righful place.




posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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Queen Nefertiti is renowned as one of ancient history's great beauties. She was the wife of Pharaoh Akhenaton - who initiated a new religion which involved worshipping the sun.


This is one of the rare times I agree with the head of antiquities Zahi Hawass, many ancient archeology sites have been ravaged over the years.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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Germany should return it...


when Zahi admits the pyramids are not the product of Khufu
!



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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Well, to be fair, just because a culture used to own something doesn't necessarily mean they have a right to it now. If it suddenly became necessary for everybody to return everything that was taken by force from somewhere back to where it came from, it would be impossible.

Besides, the bust was originally owned by Egyptian royalty, and since there don't seem to be any of those around these days, I say it's pretty much up for grabs.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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Although I agree that "ravaging" archeological sites is bad joo-joo, and it's ideal for the relic to be returned to it's home. I highly doubt that anything Hawass says about the sketchy means by which the artifact made its' way to Germany is true.

Here's a link to a Sphinx article I found a little while ago through Erich Von Daniken's website which may be helpful in outlining Hawass' rep in the past:

www.philipcoppens.com...



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Sunseeker
 



Although I agree that "ravaging" archeological sites is bad joo-joo, and it's ideal for the relic to be returned to it's home. I highly doubt that anything Hawass says about the sketchy means by which the artifact made its' way to Germany is true.



I agree, take anything Hawass says with a grain salt, just talk to Graham Hancock or Andrew Collins, Hawass insist that the Pyramids were built by ancient Egyptians without any proof.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by 2000 Yards
 


What you mean used to own something? They still own it, it was stolen by germans. And if there isn't any royalty around then it goes to the people, or their appropriate care taker of such things. Like a museum.
Also the argument that it can't be transported because it's too fragile is a lie. The trip isn't that long and with precautions it could be easily made.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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I've seen the bust, and it's beautiful. But it belongs to Egypt.

Egypt was (at the time) a conquered country and one that was of great interest to Europe ever since Napoleon showed up and found interesting things there. As with the Elgin Marbles and other such controversial things, desperate and starving people sold things at cut rate bargains to wealthy European hobbyists.

They'd hold mummy unwrapping parties and there was a lot of destruction of sites simply to get the miniscule sums the Europeans were offering. Many things of great value were destroyed in this 'gold rush.'

This changed about 1900 when a class of professional archaeologists began forming. Since the 1960's various native groups (including American Indians) have asked for the return of their historic property (including, in the case of Australian Aborigines, the bodies of women and children who were murdered and then defleshed to provide specimens for museums... just as if they were wild beasts or birds.)

Third world countries became more wealthy and more educated and groups of curators and explorers and archaeologists and anthropologists started being educated in those countries... and they had a different view than "everything interesting belongs in the hands of the Europeans or Americans."

I'm all for it. Egypt is no longer a backwoods country and like Greece it has the means and ability to take care of its treasures. It would be much harder to see it there, but I think Egypt deserves to have its treasures back.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Thank you for the history Byrd, as I mentioned in my OP I also believe it should go back to Egypt, also not buying that it's too fragile to transport. I have traveled to most countries around the world but not Egypt, hope to one day, maybe by the time I get there Nefertiti will be home where she belongs.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:42 PM
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If this were Nerfertiti's remains, I would say unquestionably they needed to go back.

But It's a piece of art, folks.

Egypt is saying it was stolen, Germany is saying it was not.

Come on. We don't really know.

I hope the Dutch won't start demanding our Vermeer's back, or the French our Renoir's, or other country's laying claim to the many artifacts, paintings, and sculptures we hold so dear in our museums.



[edit on 12/22/0909 by ladyinwaiting]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


You make some very good points ladyinwaiting, wasn't thinking about in those terms, thx.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


You're welcome! I can see both sides, with each having a point. But I also see some rather nasty precedent's this could set.

If Egypt can prove in a court of law that the sculpture was stolen, then it should be returned. Otherwise, no.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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Nationalism needs to be destroyed, and this is just a tiny example why.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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There are a few reasons why Germany would not wish to return the bust of Queen Nefertiti to Egypt. The most obvious is, of course, money. The statue is a major attraction to Germany's Neue's Museum in Berlin. It certainly wouldn't be easy to give up an object, familiar to so many.

Another reason would be as a political statement, of sorts, to the archeological world and the various archival societies and museums; that Germany was not going to return ancient treasures to their lands of origin when they were deemed as having been obtained legititately (of course, this is, in itself, in contention but, as they say, “possesion is 9/10ths of the law”.

Of course, the ”Conspiracy Theorist” in me can't help but think of yet another reason why Germany might refuse to even entertain the thought of returning the bust of Nefertit to Egypt:

I'm one of those people, incidentally, that continues to study the tremendous influence of “Nazi philosophy” in Germany, much of Europe and even in North and South America from the 30's to the present day. There are those that believe that “this influence” still is quite active within many “circles of power”. With this in mind, one might easily imagine secret cabals of Nazis ordering that the the bust of Nefertiti remain in Germany....”Under orders of the Fueher”.


“It is no secret that Adolf Hitler was smitten with love for the ancient Egyptian Queen Khenemet Nefertiti Hedjet. In 1933, the Egyptian government made the first of many demands over the decades for Nefertiti's return. Among his many titles Hermann Goering was premier of Prussia (which included Berlin) and, as such, Goering suggested to King Fouad I of Egypt that Nefertiti would soon be back in Cairo in exchange for political alliances between Germany and Egypt.

But Hitler had other plans. Through the ambassador to Egypt, Eberhard von Stohrer, Hitler informed the government that he was an ardent fan of Nefertiti: “I know this famous bust, “the feuhrer wrote. “I have viewed it and marveled at it many times. Nefertiti continually delights me. The bust is a unique masterpiece, an ornament, a true treasure!” This bold cultural usurpation was part of a colonial mindset of the time. Egypt was widely viewed as a birthplace of Western (hence German) civilization.

Hitler boldy claimed Nefertiti had a focal place in his dreams of rebuilding Berlin as Germania. “Do you know what I'm going to do one day? I'm going to build a new Egyptian museum in Berlin,” Hitler went on. “I dream of it. Inside I will build a chamber, crowned by large dome. In the middle, this wonder, Nefertiti, will be enthroned. I will never relinquish the head of the Queen.” ( bold added for emphasis ) SOURCE


Of course, if that idea is a bit far-fetched, the site cited in the quote above, raises the very interesting possibility that Hitler (or his henchmen) had been disguising actual antiquities as “art duplicates” or replicas. Ostensibly this action would have allowed these antiquities to be sold to private collectors while “replicas” could remain in museums, displayed as being the original item without anyone being the wiser.

As a “Conspiracy Theorist” I could go on and on with this ....

[edit on 12/23/2009 by benevolent tyrant]



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by 2000 Yards
Well, to be fair, just because a culture used to own something doesn't necessarily mean they have a right to it now. If it suddenly became necessary for everybody to return everything that was taken by force from somewhere back to where it came from, it would be impossible.


Isn't that the truth. All us poor white folk would have to vacate the United States and give our property to the native Americans.



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