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The conflict: Do you believe, or do you not?

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posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 04:44 PM
What is the conflict? Well I'm sure it started when mankind started - do you believe in a higher power? It can be anything you want it to be, you can call this higher power your God(s), your cosmic counterpart, one consciousness, whatever you wish. But the question remains do you believe in a higher power what so ever?

Then on the other side of the spectrum we have the non believers. I used to consider myself atheist, for a long time, but have since learned of a higher consciousness. So do you all who have no beliefs in a higher power think you will just die and rot away in the ground; that we're just flesh and bone and have a brain but nothing else?

Now I know there are people that are in the middle, or indecisive when it comes to this sort of topic and that's fine. Having doubts about anything, or everything, really is truly a smart thing to do - there is no reason to jump on the band wagon and follow anthers footsteps. I still have doubts even though I have faith, so I would place myself in the 'believing of a higher consciousness' area.

Sometimes I find myself questioning everything I believe to be real, which would make it a fact in my mind. Well when it comes down to it, you will drive yourself insane trying to figure out what ultimately is the answer to everything, and anything (trust me, I've tried it).

Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts/comments on the above topic. If you don't wish to share your beliefs that's fine, but giving a simple answer is very much welcome as well.

And yes I realize that answering such a question may be hard for some, like I said I have my doubts. I'm also aware that many people reading this will say "It's not that simple..." but really, isn't it? Do you follow along what your family/friends have to say because that's how you were raised? Do you go to church because you feel bad and that God might be mad at you? Do you not believe in anything because you find it difficult to believe those lunatics who say they have been to 'the other side?'

Either way, I think when it all boils down to it, you will know deep down the true answer to what you believe in. If you really think about it, not having a belief, is still having a belief (a belief that nothing exists). So it's sort of a paradox, but nonetheless interesting to talk about, so let's hear it.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by highlyoriginal]

posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 04:51 PM
I don't believe in "god" or anything separate from us. I do believe in a spiritual aspect to ourselves and I think we're probably all connected. In fact, I think that's the foundation of who we are. I am a spirit in possession of a mind and a body. The most important part of who I am is something you can't "see". I also believe in life after death (and before - this is just temporary).

I call myself an atheist because that's the simplest way to say all that.

I wouldn't claim any of this to be the "Truth". It's just what I believe. Other people's beliefs are theirs to have and I have no interest in changing them.

I was raised in an extremely religious family and I'm a strong supporter of religious freedom.

posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 04:57 PM
I can pretty honestly say that I don't know what's going on, and I'm okay with it. I've never met anyone who can adequately define "God" enough to say whether I believe in it or not. How can I not believe in something nobody can define clearly enough for me to even understand?

There's a point at which all the definitions break down. God, infinity, life, death. I don't understand what any of those things mean. Being alive seems to be about having a point of view -- about looking out of your eyeballs. But past that, I don't know what's going on.

Fortunately for me, I'm an animal, and I'm running on instinct and blindly following rules about 99% of the time, so I don't get frozen thinking about the paradoxical and unfathomable state of existence. I'll just roll along until I die, whatever that entails.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by 2000 Yards]

posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:07 PM
I agree with benevolent heretic, though I don't call myself an atheist. I find the best term that fits me is spiritualist. I believe we are in a constant state of spiritual learning, that every lifetime teaches something new. I believe when we die the process is renewed. I literally cannot imagine nothingness being the end result of such a colorful existence. But that is just me.

I feel like I could have said a whole lot more but this kind of topic is very hard to put into words for some reason.

posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:21 PM
It is easiest for me to think of myself as an atheist; albeit with a spiritual bent.
I don't believe in god or intelligent design; but have been in awe of the patterns that exist in life.
Some thing like an organic hardware designed the programs that DNA follow IMHO.
Don't know. BUt not the abrahamic god.

"If you really think about it, not having a belief, is still having a belief (a belief that nothing exists). So it's sort of a paradox, but nonetheless interesting to talk about, so let's hear it."

I see what you are saying ; though check this perspective out:
I don't have a belief that nothing exists; I never HAD a belief to start off with. So there's no belief to negate or invert.

posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:26 PM

I research religions. I know alot, about many of them. I also count myself as an expert on the occult.
However, I dont believe in "ghosts". Or magic.
Also, I dont believe in god. At least not a trditional sort of god.

No god, no dogma, no preaching. Thats my policy.
If it is someone else's approach to spirituality, I generally do not buy into it. Not because I want to rebel, or be original, but because I think spirituality should be personal. Something you decide for yourself.
You cant teach yourself how to believe anything, by listening to others. Youre just trying to make other's ideas your own.

I DO believe in energy. It exists in everything. Everything has frequency, and vibration.
Why we believe that something had to 'create" this energy, I dont know.

Ghosts? They are residual energy. Humans have quite a habit of projecting their own attributes on things that most likely, do not have them.
Like when we say that our dogs are smiling. They are not smiling, but it looks like a human function.
"That ghost is trying to speak to us". No, its not, but thats a human fuction that we can project and identify with. These are spikes in EMF.They are energy, the stuff that causes our brain function, which is why people ghost hunt when geo-magnetism, static electricity is highest.

If there is life after death, it will not have anything to do with your actions, in my opinion.
It will not matter if you were good or bad. These are methods of control. I dont want to be a part of anything that tries to control you.
You should be/do good, because it's what feels right. No because you have to.

What happens to your energy, your "soul"? Dont know! But I think spirituality should be all about YOU. Progress however you think that you need to.

Well, thats the condensed version, just a few points for you. I felt compelled to post because Im in the middle. It's not that I dont believe, it's that I am learned in science also. Half and half.
I constantly try to balance science, with everything else. So maybe I'll figure it out one day.
But I will figure it out for me, and it wont be anyone else's business.

posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:47 PM
I have science highest credentials backing my belief of a conscious universe.


[edit on 22-12-2009 by GrandKitaro777]

posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:46 PM
reply to post by InertiaZero

Very insightful post, and I tend to agree with everything you have said. You should never be forced to do anything, once someone/something has given you even the slightest idea that you're being 'forced' to do anything, you do whatever comes naturally to you - some rebel, some submit, some contest. I contest, all society does is try and bend and shape you into the mirror image of what is the be believed as perfect.

Why not think for ourselves? I'm tired of a lot of things in general, but seriously tired of feeling like I have responsibilities that I really never agreed too. That sort of sounds cowardice, but if you were in my shoes you'd understand what I'm saying.

Anyway, I've liked reading the responses so far, hope to hear more.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 10:10 AM
reply to post by highlyoriginal

Since you spend years being conditioned to fit into society, its pretty hard to start thinking for yourself.
Thats sad, because there are alot of smart people out there, that never question the way that everything works. There are always alot of threads about "something in the water" that helps to control you, or MKULTRA scenarios.
But I hold to the theory, that no PTB's HAVE to control you. The roles of society do that for them.
Wear this.
Drink this.
Do that.
Dont do this.
Dont think like that.
Buy this new phone.
Youre not fashionable.
Youre not fashionable enough.
Too young.
Too old.
Have friends.
Be well liked.
Mind your manners.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 10:21 AM
What sums up planet earth is to say.

"Darwinism, is the worst religion on earth"

It truly is a religion, and the people that project it have no evidence for it other than there faith in the theory.

Personally i think planet earth is the literal hell from the bible. I think christmas time you all worship satan as in santa. This just keeps feeding itself, and the people behind it, have conned people so easily.

Then they us tv, possibly the most powerful toy these people have to con you even more. I am sure there are some in the elites that regret the invention of the internet over tv. I would suggest al gore is such a person.

Of course it is so much far more complicated than this, but i really believe planet earth is the literal hell from the bible.

You people have your own thoughts on this world and reality thats what i believe, and i did before they really went after my life in a big way.

The way i look at it all finally is. The world deserves all the sh1t it has. When i see a world where things like doctors, who are supposed to help, are like the nazi doctors from the death camps. Police re supposed to stop crimes, but while they organise murder for criminals against the people they hate. Imagine that the police are in society to kill for there friends.

Just see what happens to people in gaza, and other places, and you will see the extremes of what people are. Most people are pure scum. Thats why i keep saying the world wants scum, let it have as much as it wants, and it sure has that.

Just look at america, the biggest bully in the world, while proclaiming to be christian, goes around making up enemies of people that never go near them, just so they can blow up weddings and other public gatherings, to satisfy your peoples need to be the biggest bully on earth.

No way on earth is america a christian nation.

Like i said this planet earth for me, is the literal hell from the bible. That means even you obama are here, on this planet with us. You may not be suffering from your crimes, but you are destroying yourself anyway, by your actions, and letting people use you to help america get there jocks off by blowing up weddings.

Enjoy your christmas, and lets keep the cycle going lol, forever.

[edit on 12/23/2009 by andy1033]

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 12:29 PM
I am receptive.

I do not believe or disbelieve.

This enables one to see reality as it is. The IS(ness) of everything. Unconditional and without description and or value and or labels and or belief and or disbelief.

Also note how belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin.

Who is in the right, the believer or disbeliever?

Is it wrong to believe?

Is it wrong to disbelieve?

This is Duality at its best. The human condition.

If you look at reality from within a system you are limited to that very system. You will eventually hit the walls and the ceiling and run our of room fast. Only once you step out of the system will you see reality for what it is, everything and nothing.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 03:04 PM
reply to post by awakened sleeper

Another good reply. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Unless you are able to mentally step outside of the box, and see things in your own perspective, the world is what everyone else makes it. Once you figure out the facts and are able to see things for what they really are, you are just another person amongst the sheeple.

It's really sad to see how many people are willing to sit on the sidelines and forget that they are playing this game as well... the game of life. Because of these people the things people like myself have to say look crazy and too fictional but really, no matter how you view anything it's going to look pretty out of place to somebody. I don't ever really think the NWO will succeed because of this. There may be a mass among the people of the world who believe in all the same #, but there will always be those questioning everything they come across and find/seek truth for themselves.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 03:08 PM

Originally posted by highlyoriginal
So do you all who have no beliefs in a higher power think you will just die and rot away in the ground; that we're just flesh and bone and have a brain but nothing else?

Yes, that pretty much sums up my views. Higher powers and spirituality are concepts born from misfires of a pattern-seeking brain.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 05:23 PM
Alot of the words people use would be classified as a "God" by definition alone.

A conscious universe (God)

A spiritual oneness (the accumulation of "God")

The creative consciousness (God)

That from which we will return (God)

Everything and Nothing (God)

Higher Consciousness (God)

Creator (God) ~yes this one happens a lot, but they still claim the "creator" of the universe is not god... In reality most of them describe "God" verbatim.~

I see many people on this site that use these words (and others not mentioned) and after describing their beliefs it is almost blatantly apparent that they beleive in god but just use a placeholder label mostly just to keep that three letter 'g' word out of the picture. In fact I've seen atheists do this! They define what they "actually" beleive and it turns out they aren't atheists at all.

Just because you don't call him Allah, Jaweh, Lord Almighty, etc. doesn't mean what you describe isn't "God".

I dunno, just an observation.

posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 06:16 PM
reply to post by DaMod

When someone asks "Do you believe in God"? I figure the most commonly acknowledged definition of that word is a supreme being or creator of the universe. SomeONE, separate from ourselves, who will judge us on judgment day and decide if we're going to go to heaven or hell. Since that's what MOST people mean by "God", my response is "no".

If, however, they define "God" as the spiritual oneness of all beings, then yes, I do believe in that. I have no problem with the WORD "God", but the most commonly accepted concept of God is not what I consider to be in alignment with my beliefs.

When someone asks if I believe in God, I don't assume that they mean "Everything and nothing".

posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 09:26 AM
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Yeah exactly. I believe in the spiritual oneness as well, and although I could use the word "God" to describe my beliefs that doesn't mean others will understand what I do believe in by me using the term God. There is always explanation behind the word, it's rarely so easy as to just say one single word.

posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 07:25 PM
reply to post by InertiaZero

I'm impressed. I have taken a very deep look into this, and I appreciate your perspective.

The only difference is that I absolutely reject the notion of "spirituality" or even the concept of "spirit". This is residual ignorance, and is akin to blaming plagues on demons.

That said, there are a variety of ways that dynamic intellect can manifest, and there is a lot that is grouped into large blunt catagories and personified by the loudest and most aggressively certain among us.

Once we learn to look to thinkers for our information, it shouldn't be too long before many of our most troublesome false gods begin to drop.

posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 07:59 PM
As for me, well I buy that I'm my own higher power with 2 big spiritual sides. I also buy that God is in the torment of a hell since it is the evil devils all put as though one being together. Sucks to be God. Plus I buy that I return to my actual home realm without even knowing I been any time away. You see I buy my live spot returns back to my actual mind in another realm. The other main me is doing who knows what in my home realm, but I return back inner to be whole again. Yes, I buy that I am split in two in some sense for a while of being here on earth.

posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:08 PM
It's just like everything else in this world. Believing and non believing are the same thing, the same energy. Just different expressions of the same thing. And then we have everything in between.
To not believe in a Higher something means there is a NEED to not believe. To believe is a NEED to believe. To fight about it means you are not quite sure if you are right, because if you did truly believe there would be no need to.

posted on Dec, 24 2009 @ 11:11 PM
I believe in a Higher Consciousness. My only fear is that I think IT is not sane.

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