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How to make the case for Israel and win

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posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by mmiichael
 


You wouldn't know
because you are one of them


Life's good.

I just hate hypocracy. And vicious hate disseminators.

Go start another thread on the Evils of Israel. You've only done about 20 in the last month.



[edit on 30-12-2009 by mmiichael]




posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Oh only 20...thanx for keeping the count for me lmao@ I wanted to make at min 1400 1 thread for each murder committed by Apartheid Israel in Jan.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 05:09 AM
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AIPAC - A tool of the Israeli government.

Money flows from AIPAC to US congress members in the form of "Campign Donations" (otherwise known as bribes, bungs etc) which buys their support for the the Israeli line - no matter what! Therefore, those congress members taking the money are doing the bidding of a foreign power. Whether it's in America's interests or not doesn't enter the equation.
You only have to watch them all rolling into town for the annual AIPAC convention, lining up to pledge loyalty and receiving their cheques.


We have the same in the UK, with the Conservative / Labour Friends of Israel (and their rather sickening websites). They will pledge their loyalty in return for money / backing and screw the country they are supposed to represent first and foremost.
Where ar the Labour / Conservative friends of Germany, France, Western Samoa websites and support groups?



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 05:19 AM
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Want to play Google

How about the most powerful lobbying nation in the US and Britain. The country that has dictated US foreign policy for decades and bought off the British parliament years ago. You'll love these guys. They hate Jews too - almost as much as you do:


harpers.org...

The Vast Power of the Saudi Lobby

John R. MacArthur

"...when I think of pernicious foreign lobbies with disproportionate sway over American politics, I can't see past Saudi Arabia and its royal house, led by King Abdullah.

The long and corrupt history of American-Saudi relations centers around the kingdom's vast reserves of easily extractable oil, of course. Ever since President Franklin D. Roosevelt met aboard ship in 1945 with King Ibn Saud, the special relationship with the desert kingdom has only grown stronger. The House of Saud is usually happy to sell us oil at a consistent and reasonable price and then increase production if unseemly market forces drive the world price of a barrel too high for U.S. consumers.

In exchange we arm the Saudis to the teeth and turn a blind eye to their medieval approach to crime and punishment.

Even during the Saudi-led oil embargo of 1973-74, an exceedingly hostile action against the United States supposedly justified by Washington's support of Israel in the Yom Kippur War, the Nixon administration treaded very softly. Despite the illegality of the embargo it arguably violated international law as well as a bilateral commercial agreement between the United States and Saudi Arabia the White House and the State Department could hardly have been more diplomatic toward their Bedouin friends.

As the historian J.B. Kelly recounts, the U.S. ambassador to Riyahd, James Akins, did his best to placate King Faisal by urging the Saudi's American-owned oil concessionaire ARAMCO to, in Akin's words, "hammer home" to the White House that the embargo wouldn't be lifted unless "the political struggle [between Israel and the Arabs] is settled in [a] manner satisfactory to [the] Arabs."

In all, as Kelly wrote, "a most peculiar recourse for an ambassador to employ to influence the policy of his own government."

But this was a blip on the screen of harmonious petrol politics. After Iran's Islamic revolution overthrew the trusted shah, in 1979, the thoroughly anti-democratic Saudi oligarchy appeared an island of stability and thus of greater strategic value to Washington. Indeed, in a head-to-head match-up with the Israel lobby in 1981 over the proposed American sale of AWACS planes to the Saudis, the Saudi lobby won a close vote in the Senate. Leading the Arab charge on Capitol Hill was the debonair Prince Bandar, who demonstrated that charm mixed with a lot of money could beat the Israelis, even during the pro-Israel administration of Ronald Reagan.

Bandar was quickly promoted to Saudi ambassador to Washington, where, in 1990, he was assigned the task by Defense Secretary Dick Cheney of, in effect, doling out press passes to the U.S. media before the Gulf War this in spite of the fact that tens of thousands of U.S. troops were swarming into the kingdom to defend it against a perceived invasion threat from Saddam Hussein. When he wasn't entertaining congressmen and spreading good cheer through his highly paid lobbyist, Fred Dutton, Bandar was busy making friends with, at first vice president, and then president, George H.W. Bush, and by extension with Bush's son, the future president. This personal relationship with the Bush family has served Bandar and his family very well, as documented in Craig Unger's book, House of Bush, House of Saud.

But the prince and his royal relatives evidently also impressed the Clinton administration. Before he died in the World Trade Center on 9/11, the former FBI counterterrorism chief John O'Neill complained to French investigator Jean-Charles Brisard that Saudi pressure on the State Department had prevented him from fully investigating possible al-Qaida involvement in the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996, which killed 19 U.S. servicemen, and of the destroyer Cole in 2000. As with Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf, there's always talk of the Saudis playing a double game with al-Qaida publicly denouncing it and privately paying it off but you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to understand that the Saudis don't have America's best interests at heart.

So it gets worse. Now, according to Seymour Hersh, Bandar has virtually joined the Bush administration as a shadow cabinet member. Hersh's New Yorker article last month described "the redirection" of U.S. foreign policy against Iran and Arab Shi'ite terrorists in collaboration with such Sunni-dominated countries as Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt (this in spite of the fact that Sunni rebels, funded in part by Saudi "private citizens," have killed the bulk of American solidiers who have died in Iraq).

The wise men in this new policy council reportedly include Vice President Cheney, deputy national security adviser Elliot Abrams (an Iran-Contra convict who is very pro-Israel), the nominee for U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, and none other than Bandar, now the Saudi national-security adviser. Such is the cynicism of Bushian, Israeli and Saudi foreign policy that Abrams collaborates with Bandar, whose country does not recognize Israel and whose "charities" give money to the families of suicide bombers who blow themselves up inside the Jewish state."




[edit on 30-12-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


NA NA NA NA !! I know all your thread derailing tricks...do one thing make a thread about Saudi Lobby and we can all talk there



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by mmiichael
 


NA NA NA NA !! I know all your thread derailing tricks...do one thing make a thread about Saudi Lobby and we can all talk there


I know, against the rules to do anything except weep and moan about Evil Zionists on any of the hundreds of anti-Israel threads that busy hatemongers keep generating around here.

ut this thread is guess what? Another claim that Israel dictates US foreign policy.

Of course anyone who has read any proper journalistic take on the subject of lobbying or worked in Washington or the media is aware is how the Saudis have pumped hundreds of millions into purchasing senators, congressmen, shares in news services, academics - even a sellout ex-President Jimmy Carter.

The love-Hate frisson between Israel and the Saudis is a fascinating dynamic. To complex for your average aspiring neo-Nazis to comprehend.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


uhmm why are you weeping and moaning? C'mon now no need for you to weep and moan, everything wrong should be made right..every nazi and apartheid policy should be stopped in it's tracks. Be a big boy, do not wail and cry when truths are exposed.

So when are you making a lobby thread? you are not? o why? lemme guess the pay does not include for creating threads, right?



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 




To the benefit of the many not-very-bright zionist wannabe apologists who read this a$$iduously, I decided to offer a clear and simple method of arguing the case for Israel. This clear and simple method has been distilled from a life spent listening to and reading Zionist propaganda. It is easy to follow and results are guaranteed or your money back.


It is a shame that we see OPs like this, where the opening statement doesn't invite debate, but insults anyone who would care to engage in the same before they even type the first word.

It is also regrettable that ATS has sunk to this level, to allow this form of mean spirited demagoguery in spite of its self professed desire to deny ignorance.

In closing, I do not feel obliged to address the topic of Israel or so-called zionism because, quite simply, the OP was never intended to do that in itself.

Shame on you, ATS!



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


You are right this tongue n' cheek satire was not intended to debate about Zionism but the conspiracy showing a factual blueprint policy of many JIDF and pro-Israeli supporters on how to derail threads. It has been researched thoroughly and actually lays the content how every topic about Israel and Zionism is derailed. This is a conspiracy in itself.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 



Originally posted by mmiichael


Just keep posting distorted information consistently trying to make the US, Israel, Jews of the world look guilty for anything imaginable.
"The world sucks".


It will reinforce the prejudices of the ignorant, and inform insightful people that you're just another cog in the propaganda wheel.
"You suck".


Israel is fully aware the Palestinian leaders want continued conflict to keep the money flowing in - and not peace.
"They Suck".


So they've now put the ball in the court of the Palestinians now.
"We Rock".


Typically we will get tons of rhetoric and gnashing of teeth but no serious attempts to reconcile differences.
"The world sucks".


And people on conspiracy sites will gnatter with one another about Evil Zionists.
"They suck".


Jews and Muslims living together in Israel will move forward.
"We rock".

The Palestinians will continue to marginalize themselves. When the Iranian Ayatollah regime collapses next year the Palestinians will have serious problems.
"They suck".



There you go OP.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by December_Rain
 




To the benefit of the many not-very-bright zionist wannabe apologists who read this a$$iduously, I decided to offer a clear and simple method of arguing the case for Israel. This clear and simple method has been distilled from a life spent listening to and reading Zionist propaganda. It is easy to follow and results are guaranteed or your money back.


It is a shame that we see OPs like this, where the opening statement doesn't invite debate, but insults anyone who would care to engage in the same before they even type the first word.

It is also regrettable that ATS has sunk to this level, to allow this form of mean spirited demagoguery in spite of its self professed desire to deny ignorance.

In closing, I do not feel obliged to address the topic of Israel or so-called zionism because, quite simply, the OP was never intended to do that in itself.

Shame on you, ATS!


Dude you havn't paid attention.

You have skipped staright to step 4.

tut tut tut



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by bigyin

Dude you havn't paid attention.

You have skipped staright to step 4.

tut tut tut


He does have a point though, doesn't he? These kinds of threads pop up all the time and anyone who does not agree that the "All-seeing-Israeli-Zionist-Eye are behind the cause of all the world's problems" are labelled as Pro-Israel Zionist lobbyists. It seems there is no middle ground on this issue. Either you hate, despise and condemn Israel and continually question its right to exist, or you are an undercover Zionist agent or supporter. That is what these threads are about to many of the authors.

The usual members sit behind their computers and begin to salivate when anybody questions what the O.P. has stated. This is their moment to shine because they get to label anybody who does not agree with their one-sided, narrow-minded perspectives on the issues in the ME. Have a browse through other threads such as these and you will see over and over again lines like "I was waiting for the Pro-Israeli crowd to drop in. It didn't take them long did it?"

These threads ARE becoming a bit of a joke and are harming the reputation of ATS and its members.

[edit on 30/12/2009 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Moonman1111
reply to post by mmiichael
 


I think the Palestinians have said they will not join peace talks until Israel STOPS building settlements on Palestinian land.



The Palestinians have found excuses for breaking off talks with Israel for one and only one reason.

Leadership manages billions of dollars in foreign aid and donations . That means millions can be stolen. Check out fat Mrs Arafat's fat Swiss account known to be in the hundreds of millions.

The Palestinians have peace they will just be another impoverished Arab state. No education, skills, technology, nothing.

Everyone who understands the world we live in knows this.

There's a slim chance of the Palestinians going somewhere if they dump the criminals and thugs who act as their spokesman. Guys whose goals are getting fat checks from guilted Norwegian corporations - not milk for Palestinian babies.



Must be the same reason Israel doesnt want peace. All the fat US checks.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by watcher73
Must be the same reason Israel doesnt want peace. All the fat US checks.


Israel has an economy and exports technology, goods, services.

The only industry of the Palestinians is the export of terrorism. Typically when Israelis abandoned Gaza leaving functional greenhouses, cement factories, etc -instead of taking them up to provide jobs, income, food, exportable product - Hamas had them destroyed.

Palestinians can only survive and thrive if they are in a perpetual state of siege with Israel. As Yasser Arafat's fat wife in Paris how many hundreds of millions she has in her fat bank account.

The US subsidy to Israel's defense - 7%% of which has to be used to buy US goods - is a diminishing proportion of their GDP.

The Palestinians, despite ridiculous claims of genocide - have doubled their population, live longer and with a better quality of life than 90% of the Arabs in the Middle East.

Calling yourself Freedom Fighters has translated to billions of dollars in revenues form Europe, America, the rest of the world. Problem is most of it is mysteriously unaccounted for after the PLO, Fatah, Hamas get their hands on it. The rest spent on missiles, tunnels, weapons.

The children suffer the most. There is no industry to occupy most young - except attacking Israel, smuggling, etc.

The Saudis have given up beyond lip-service and promises of funds which never materialize. Europe will follow the same route soon.

The Palestinian leaders are the Palestinian people's worst enemies Everyone knows that except a the usual Jew-haters who try to characterized Israel at fault on everything.

Bad Palestinian governance is the problem.

I'm positive most reading his will choose to ignore what I have just said.


M



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Its been stated in other threads that Israel is a failed state living on handouts from USA.

Most of their money is spent on defense systems, without which it would be wiped out.

If USA ever decides to abandon Israel its bye bye Jews.

Many Jews realise this and are leaving.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


You can't win with the Hardcore Anti-israel lobby. They all hide behind the " YOU ARE A ZIONIST WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM" argument. And will take any word you say and shoe-horn it to fall into that argument. I have yet to see an anti-israeli argue a pro-israeli based on the merits of the pro-israelis argument. They jump straight to ad-hominem and character assassinations. The OP's post is essentially a character assassination from the get-go. If you disagree with OP you are an uneducated zionist pig, etc.

The fact of the matter is that anti-israel threads and replies pop up on this forum like maggots on rotting flesh whenever anything remotely pro-israel is mentioned. I expect the OP or one of his cronies is going to automatically lump my statement in one of the ridiculously broad criterion he has set up for any argument that even sounds remotely in favor of the israelis.

Honestly i see no difference between the Anti-israelis and the hardcore pro-israelis. And if i should disagree with either side for whatever reason i am labeled an enemy, a zionist or an anti-semite even though i am a jew who is largely neutral on the subject.


[edit:removed an unnecessary part of a sentence.]

[edit on 30-12-2009 by DeathShield]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael



The only industry of the Palestinians is the export of terrorism. Typically when Israelis abandoned Gaza leaving functional greenhouses, cement factories, etc -instead of taking them up to provide jobs, income, food, exportable product - Hamas had them destroyed.


The Palestinians have hard enough time just making enough to get themselves by on. That is, when the Israelis allow them to do so. What about all the bombed farms, civilian infrastructure, the ongoing harrassment of farmers and destruction of Palestinian farmland / olive groves by settlers - while the Israeli police and army stand back?


Palestinians can only survive and thrive if they are in a perpetual state of siege with Israel. As Yasser Arafat's fat wife in Paris how many hundreds of millions she has in her fat bank account.


What? Relevence?


The US subsidy to Israel's defense - 7%% of which has to be used to buy US goods - is a diminishing proportion of their GDP.


Where else are they gonna get the aircraft from, Russia?


The Palestinians, despite ridiculous claims of genocide - have doubled their population, live longer and with a better quality of life than 90% of the Arabs in the Middle East.


Damn them pesky Palestinians. They breed quicker than you can kill them! Can you show exactly how they lead a better quality of life than 90% of other Arabs?


Calling yourself Freedom Fighters has translated to billions of dollars in revenues form Europe, America, the rest of the world. Problem is most of it is mysteriously unaccounted for after the PLO, Fatah, Hamas get their hands on it. The rest spent on missiles, tunnels, weapons.


Last I checked, there was no European or American money going to Hamas. What aid, food anfd building material is bought is held back by the Israeli government not allowing it into Gaza.


The children suffer the most. There is no industry to occupy most young - except attacking Israel, smuggling, etc.


Well if you stopped bombing their schools perhaps they might have a chance at learning something more productive.


The Saudis have given up beyond lip-service and promises of funds which never materialize. Europe will follow the same route soon.


The Saudis do what's good for them and nobody else and will not upset the status quo with the US and UK.


The Palestinian leaders are the Palestinian people's worst enemies Everyone knows that except a the usual Jew-haters who try to characterized Israel at fault on everything.


Problem there is that the Palestinians only get the leaders that Israel allows them to have, which means they are screwed.


Bad Palestinian governance is the problem.


No, the continued Israeli treatment of the Palestinians, the continued land theft and the mind boggling inaction of the UN in not enforcing all the ignored resolutions is the problem.


I'm positive most reading his will choose to ignore what I have just said.


How could anyone possibly resist answering the above points!



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Have a browse through other threads such as these and you will see over and over again lines like "I was waiting for the Pro-Israeli crowd to drop in. It didn't take them long did it?"

These threads ARE becoming a bit of a joke and are harming the reputation of ATS and its members.


DG... if you haven't noticed there is an info-war going on... agreed? There is a lot of spin, fabrications and flat out lies that need to be brought into the light and re-examined. I think ATS's stellar reputation speaks for it self, in that the site/org provides such an open arena for such discussion, debate and yes the mud-raking and slinging naturally comes with the territory.

We should embrace this reality, not choke it to death with petty nitpicking censors.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by The Blind Eye]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by mmiichael
 


Its been stated in other threads that Israel is a failed state living on handouts from USA.

Most of their money is spent on defense systems, without which it would be wiped out.

If USA ever decides to abandon Israel its bye bye Jews.

Many Jews realise this and are leaving.




Actually nothing you have posted resembles fact except that Jews are starting to leave Israel as they lack the stomach for the antics of the pathetic Palestinians.

The Israeli purchasing subsistences Jew-haters love to call handouts (minimum 75% mandatorily spent on US goods) now only accounts for 10% of the countries GDP. There is talk of phasing it out very soon.

Israel's actual (not conspiracy fantasy) economy is an open book given many of it's businesses are publicly traded. The country export primarily software, information technology, medical and other technologies. Check it out.

There is a lot of patently false information on other threads. The fact that someone types something doesn't make it true.

Try reading sources that actually substantiate their claims and provide proper citations.




[edit on 30-12-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by The Blind Eye
DG... if you haven't noticed there is an info-war going on... agreed? There is a lot of spin, fabrications and flat out lies that need to be brought into the light and re-examined. I think ATS's stellar reputation speaks for it self, in that the site/org provides such an open arena for such discussion, debate and yes the mud-raking and slinging naturally comes with the territory.

We should embrace this reality, not choke it to death with petty nitpicking censors.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by The Blind Eye]


I agree with what you have said and you are essentially right. The last thing I want to see is pages taken down because they are being censored. ATS does have a good reputation and most of its members are the reason for that reputation. I accept and understand there will be threads I do not like, agree with or even think are worthy (I'm sure other members have felt this way about some of the threads I have created.)

What I do object to is the ridiculously biased, one-sided information that is recycled over and over by the same members, and then the immature tactics used to label other members who do not agree with those views. Especially in regards to such a complicated and emotional topic as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. People go on about the "anti-Semitism tag" being overused, well now the "Zionist" tag is being clichéd in the same manner. It is getting kind of sad that if you encourage people to look at BOTH sides of a conflict, they feel the need to label you in a certain category.

They say that any criticism of Israel is misinterpreted as anti-Semitism, well I am beginning to think that any defence of Israel or its right to exist is being misinterpreted as Pro-Zionism. Think about it.

[edit on 31/12/2009 by Dark Ghost]



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