Iran accuses US of forging Nuclear Trigger report

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

All this supposed speculation yet no proof, ever, of any actual nuclear weapons programme.

Could that be because iran is trying to hide what they are doing?

What makes it all even crazier is that so much of the supposed evidence against Iran comes from unnamed or anonymous sources.

Could that be because it takes spies that you need to protect to get this information out of iran since iran is trying so hard to hide what they are doing?

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by centurion1211

 

So you too have evidence that Iran is developing nuclear weapons? Please provide it as the Israelis, American and British governments have, as yet, been unable to do so. The IAEA has been monotoring all the enrichment and processing and everything is accounted for and they too have found no WMD programme.

Prove that israel has nukes. Prove that iran is not trying to build nukes.

So, what is left is innuendo, speculation and outright lies without one shred of proof, yet people are quick to call for killing based on this? How very sick in the head some people are.

So, if you had evidence that someone was going to break into your house and possibly harm you or your family, do you sit on the info to see if they really do it knowing that this choice puts people at risk, or do you try to do something to stop it from happening?

The argument too that they will provide such things to terrorists to use is laughable. Why bother doing that when the origin of the isotopes can be traced back to the plant that processed the material used? It's not like making an anonymous pipe bomb.

Thinking you can trace down the bomb components would be little comfort to the thousand to millions of people killed and injured if the radical (not all) muslims do use a nuke against the U.S. (or UK).

It seems fairly arrogant and cavalier to try and play such a chess game with so many people's lives as you seem so eager to do.

reply to post by centurion1211


Oh, I see, it takes spies.

What about all the inspections and monitoring of processing by the IAEA? Does that not count for anything at all?

Spies, working for a foreign power, do so because that foreign power has an agenda to fulfill, thus it is hardly reliable and must therefore be relegated to the level of hearsay without any physical proof to back it up.

Hell, I could sit here all day making stuff up about any number of people and my suspicions of their evil purpose. In reality, it doesn't make it the truth unless I can present concrete evidence of their intent.

By adopting the ridiculous pre-emptive doctrine, you basically accept that is ok to attack someone who is not attacking you, based on a belief that at some point in the near or distant future they may become a threat to you or your country's corporate interests. That is simply paranoid aggression and can be treated with meds.

reply to post by centurion1211


The US has been handing out weapons to all sorts of "groups" for many years. Where is the difference? Only ideology and the fact you might be at the pointy end of the spear.

We were sold the WMD lie for Iraq and it's a case of the boy that cried wolf now. They cannot be trusted period, if dark hearted evil dictators all over the world want to take advantage of that then who is to blame them and who is really at fault? Try the government for telling lies as your first port of call. Don't complain if people are skeptical of more "miracle" evidence appearing to further the drive to open up yet another killing field.

Provide Iran with fuel rods and close down the enrichment plants, problem solved. I guess bio weapons as an excuse was just SO last season...

If you make them (Iran) a victim then the whole middle east scene could change very much for the worse almost overnight. You could end up starting WWIII very easily, would you support that?

There are many people that would like to see Bush, Blair and co charged with war crimes, the US government seem to think yet another unjustified and illegal war is going to slip past easily as well. I think such action is more dangerous than Iran actually having a nuclear device! I am sure terrorists would much prefer a biological weapon anyway?!?

This has nothing to do with WMD and everything to do with the oil land grab. Wow rinse and repeat and people still fall for it hook line and sinker.

reply to post by Bunker or Bust


Which brings me back to my point when i created the thread. Does it really matter if Iran is building or not a WMD? Because if they are, it's just a matter of time till they are attacked. If they are not, US and Co are making an effort to make the world believe they are. So... whatever is the case, don't you all see a war coming up next?

reply to post by henriquefd


Sadly yes but they can keep my spoonful of fear and doom for one of the sheep.

Lets just hope a holy war does not kick off, hey I bet there hoping third time lucky! It's just sick to be honest

Ahmadinejad is a madman, but he is a very intelligent madman.

Sure Iran might be making nukes.

Sure Iran might attack Israel.

I don't think it will be with a nuke though. Ahmadinejad is not dumb enough not to know what will happen to him and Iran if he where to launch a nuclear bomb. He, just like everyone else, knows that it would be an act of suicide.

He knows that if he where to launch even one nuke, at that exact nanosecond, he would be out gunned 1000 fold and the rules of war go out the window. He's openly admitted knowing how many Nukes the US has in their possession. That kind of weaponry is well beyond his level. He would have to be a complete idiot to think the opposite as true.

I don't think Ahmadinejad is down with suicide and I don't think he is dumb enough to launch a nuke. Israel on the other hand just might be that stupid. They might just think no matter what they do they will have the big bad USA on their side. Israel almost has to think they can get away with anything by now. Oh what a mess that would create.

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Oh come now, you can't just bug out with that answer.

I thought you'd be able to supply fresh evidence to support your stance that Iran is the one at fault.

Ahhhh.

I'm not saying they are at fault nor am I denying any past or present action by the west. All I am saying is that not all is to be believed from Tel Aviv, Tehran, Downing Street or Pennsylvania Ave for that matter.



[edit on 22-12-2009 by SLAYER69]

Amadmaninjihad is laughing at the American deadline. Looks like there will be fireworks early January.

All I got to say to the naysayers is what about N.Korea? Their peaceful nuclear ambitions turned out well SO please don't give me this evil American B.S. If you were doing something you didn't want anyone else to know about would you scream it from rooftops? NO. It amazes me the capacity for denial inherent in some people.

Originally posted by hangedman13
All I got to say to the naysayers is what about N.Korea? Their peaceful nuclear ambitions turned out well

SO please don't give me this evil American B.S.

Tell me about it.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee3c836b7b2e.png[/atsimg]

reply to post by DaMod

... Ahmadinejad is down with suicide and I don't think he is dumb enough to launch a nuke. Israel on the other hand just might be that stupid. They might just think no matter what they do they will have the big bad USA on their side. Israel almost has to think they can get away with anything by now. Oh what a mess that would create.

I agree with you. I do think that this is a possibility, but it has always been on the table and it ultimately lies with Israel. I don't think that the US could stop them if Israel is really set on it. It all depends on just how determined they are. However, Israel does enjoy US support and they are not stupid. They aren't backed into a corner... yet.




[edit on 22-12-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by Britguy


With all due respect, I don't think anyone is calling for war or for killing and I think you are using seditious techniques to demonize people that don't agree with your politics.

Here are the facts. Israeli politicians feel that they are facing an existential threat from Iran if Iran develops nuclear weapons capabilities. So do a great number of Israelis.

For this reason I don't expect Israel to sit idly by and let it happen without trying to stop it. This will be a painful and difficult war for Israel, and if it happens my moral compass tells me that I should support Israel, for many valid reasons, and I hope my government does as well.

I would far rather Ahmadinejad cared more about Iran's international reputation and peace than regional posturing and backed down over his nuclear ambitions. I am still holding out hope, although news like this doesn't give me much comfort.

Knowing which side of a conflict you should be on is not the same as hoping for conflict. Please stop painting everyone that doesn't side with the Mullahs as a war monger, it just doesn't wash.

If the US knows that 2010 will be the year that Iran will attack we probably won't waste anytime and make a defensive move on the first full moon... which happens to be Jan 1st, 2010. New year, new budget, new tactics. Ball drops in Time Square, ball of bombs drop in Iran. Yay. *champagne corks fly*
Now that we have Iran surrounded by having troops in Iraq and Afghanistan we won't wait much longer with the complete bs that comes out of their feigned peaceful nuke program. However, Israel will make the first move. We will hold ranks back in the hills to prevent escape from a region with fallout. Kind of like containing the contaminated and angry jihadis in a Darfur-like camp.
Meanwhile to deal with the 2% minority of muslims in the States will be a task that we all need to participate in. Zero tolerance for Sharia Law, this is the US and we have our own laws!

reply to post by JJay55



So Israel is allowed to have nukes and do whatever it wants behind closed doors? Grab land as it wishes and the US supports and funds it to the hilt and the rest of the world has to watch as you all try to start world war three. Great! Who stopped Israel getting nukes, or China or Pakistan or India etc

As I said before, give Iran fuel rods, close the enrichment plants. Keep up inspections and there is no problem is there, why won't this be explored? It is a fair and sensible solution, Iran gets power and the world gets some comfort. Ahh but they might do it in secret.... So what you going to commit genocide so you can drink cool aid without any fear?

With all your spy tech I am sure you would be able to monitor things well enough but as I have also said before this is not about the spread of WMD. Just have the balls to admit that, you want control of the resources like you have in Iraq and the drug trade in Afganistan.

Now where does it stop? Antartic where Russia has laid a claim, going to bully them around are you? I don't think so.. Their political views are not the same as yours, colour of skin and religion are though. Also they can fight back and cause as much damage if you want to take it to the wire.

You would think with the amount of troops in Afganistan that you could not get heroin for love nor money but thats not the case. So if drugs are getting out without "knowledge" by the thousands of tonnes then Bin Laden is as safe as houses. If you cannot control the ground you hold then you are just sitting ducks as we see every day with coffins coming back, it is an epic failure of monsterous size and one that is costing us money and the generation of bad will globally. There is no end goal, as soon as US forces leave then then they will be back, any US base will be a target and the poor people stationed there will have to live in fear 24/7 for the oil magnets.

And what is all this rubbish about surround and contain, they are PEOPLE not vermin. Going to stop women and children trying to escape the cluster bombs? Seriously what is wrong with people! What time of year is it? Show some compassion!!

It seems that I have a similar problem.

I suspect my raging madman of a neighbor of acquiring a gun to do me some serious damage. I haven't actually seem him with a weapon, but I suspect he's making arrangements to buy one. Lord knows what he could do to my family. Oh and think of the children. My precious children! He might even break into all the homes in this block and proceed to rob, rape and cause massacre! Then he could take the mayor hostage and blow up this whole town!

I don't have any solid evidence and have repeatedly called the cops but they've assured me that my neighbor is a harmless character. I've inquired to the mailman, the newspaper-boy and the garbage collector but they all insist upon my neighbor's innocence, going as far as to portray him as a harmless guy.

Now here's what I'm thinking. I have a couple of grenades and some automatics hidden in my attic(don't tell anybody). Since I no longer feel safe in my own home, I'm going to take action by taking care of my neighbor.

I've called my uncle Bobby who lives a couple of blocks away, and he says he's got my back.

What do you guys think?

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by Britguy

 

With all due respect, I don't think anyone is calling for war or for killing and I think you are using seditious techniques to demonize people that don't agree with your politics.

Seditious techniques? Since when is objecting to war seditious? I will call a spade a spade, and there are plenty of them on here who seem to relish war.

Here are the facts. Israeli politicians feel that they are facing an existential threat from Iran if Iran develops nuclear weapons capabilities. So do a great number of Israelis.

Israeli politicians are a dangerous bunch. They feel they can ignore any and all UN demands against them, yet expect anyone else to be held fully accountable for any breach, or disagreement with the UN. They also expect everyone else to do their dirty work for them, using the tired old victim card at every opportunity. I owe them nothing, the rest of the world owes them nothing, let them lie in the bed they have created for themselves.

For this reason I don't expect Israel to sit idly by and let it happen without trying to stop it. This will be a painful and difficult war for Israel, and if it happens my moral compass tells me that I should support Israel, for many valid reasons, and I hope my government does as well.

Why would you and your government support an aggressive action against someone who has not attacked you? Are you an American or an Israeli citizen? Do you and the US government owe some debt to Israel? From what I have seen, Israel just keeps sucking the money out of everyone else, something I personally object to as my tax money should be used at home, not to prop up a brutal racist state.

I would far rather Ahmadinejad cared more about Iran's international reputation and peace than regional posturing and backed down over his nuclear ambitions. I am still holding out hope, although news like this doesn't give me much comfort.

Nuclear ambitions? They are building a power station. There has been no evidence of anything else. The same old tired scare stories are regurgitated over and over again but lack any substance.

Knowing which side of a conflict you should be on is not the same as hoping for conflict. Please stop painting everyone that doesn't side with the Mullahs as a war monger, it just doesn't wash.

When it's the Israelis and their puppets in the US and UK calling for action all the time and working to destabilise Iran, then why would I support this? I do not want war, it's ugly and innocent people die on both sides, including the poor sods sent off to fight for the politicians.... and for what? Some politicians little power or corporate driven wet dream and profits? I'm sorry, the excuses they offer for conflict do not hold water and are avoidable and, dare I say, would not be on the table if it were their kids on the front lines. There again, when it comes to power and money, they'd sacrifice their own grannies for a few bucks!

Originally posted by prophetpiggy
It seems that I have a similar problem.

I suspect my raging madman of a neighbor of acquiring a gun to do me some serious damage. I haven't actually seem him with a weapon, but I suspect he's making arrangements to buy one. Lord knows what he could do to my family. Oh and think of the children. My precious children! He might even break into all the homes in this block and proceed to rob, rape and cause massacre! Then he could take the mayor hostage and blow up this whole town!

I don't have any solid evidence and have repeatedly called the cops but they've assured me that my neighbor is a harmless character. I've inquired to the mailman, the newspaper-boy and the garbage collector but they all insist upon my neighbor's innocence, going as far as to portray him as a harmless guy.

Now here's what I'm thinking. I have a couple of grenades and some automatics hidden in my attic(don't tell anybody). Since I no longer feel safe in my own home, I'm going to take action by taking care of my neighbor.

I've called my uncle Bobby who lives a couple of blocks away, and he says he's got my back.

What do you guys think?

What you failed to say was:
1) the neighbor has been yelling he will wipe you and your family off the map.
2)The neighbor has been suppling and arming thugs that have attacked you and your family and damaged your home many times.
3) This is taken until you finally respond to your neighbors attack's.

BUT....

Remember, YOU are a bad guy for defending yourself from these attackers.

Iran supplies Hamas and Hezbolla terrorists with money/guns/rockets/missiles...

Yeah, poor persians...

Typical for Islam to play the victim and blame anyone else for their behavior. It's a sickness.
They have been given a deadline by the world to stop nuclear production and they failed. They are not taking responsibility or action toward peace.

reply to post by JJay55


They have been given a deadline by the US, nobody else seems to want to pursue further sanctions, preferring to keep the dialogue going.
Ok, the UK, France and Germany are talking tough too but so far the Chinese and Russians are not playing ball with another Security Council vote.

To say the rest of the world is against them is perhaps stretching things a little.