'Lost:' Season Six Discussion...

Wouldn't the whole; "they all need to come back" statement just be a simplification over "all the chosen need to return"?

Meaning... people like Walt, Aaron, Sun's baby etc it is not imperative they return.

In saying that, this last episode mentioned the pilot who came to the island anyway and he doesn't appear chosen. Maybe that blows my little theory out.

Geez i hope that made sense for anyone not in my head LOL.

BTW I hated the last episode more than the previous one. I whinged we didn't learn anything in the previous but at least things happened. NOTHING happened and hardly anything was learned this time. :bnghd: Maybe i am expecting too much lol.

I am sure that Walt's story is done simply because the writers needed him off the Island since he was hitting puberty and he got taller and his voice got deeper.

That's my guess too, I don't think we'll see anything involving him anymore.... I'm still curious about Desmond the most and what role he's going to play once on the island... My thinking is that he's on Widmore's sub.

Originally posted by SilentShadow
BTW I hated the last episode more than the previous one. I whinged we didn't learn anything in the previous but at least things happened. NOTHING happened and hardly anything was learned this time. :bnghd: Maybe i am expecting too much lol.

You're crazy, man! Last episode was way better than Sayid's.

Originally posted by Gazrok
That's my guess too, I don't think we'll see anything involving him anymore....

Walt is one of the reasons why I think 'Lost' will answer the main (big) mysteries, while the fans will be left to answer the minor ones by themselves. This is fine, since time is very short now, but hopefully they give us enough to be able to work out the small mysteries.

Tonight's episode was alright. There were some shocks, like Sawyer being a cop, Claire attacking Kate, the MIB slapping Claire, and Sawyer telling the MIB what he learned over on Hydra Island (even though this is to serve Sawyer's own plan). I am saddened by the ending, though. The submarine ploy is way too overplayed in my book. What do you think about Sawyer's plan?

I am so hyped for next week! I would not mind it at all if the episode does not show any of our main characters, while focusing entirely on Richard's past.

EDIT:

Huge news! Two new episode centrics are now known. The first is not really a big deal, compared to the second one, which is the real shock. Here they are:

Episode 6.14
Title: "The Candidate."
Centric: Jack.

Episode 6.15
Title: "Across The Sea."
Centric: Jacob/"Esau."

Note that Esau is the name people are throwing around for the MIB. Esau is the Biblical fraternal twin brother of Jacob. A Jacob/"Esau" centric episode is amazing!

[edit on 16-3-2010 by they see ALL]

Wow, so my Esau connection may be right after all? (ever since they showed the MIB, I was thinking they were going the Jacob/Esau route....). Time to look at the Book of Jubilee, and brush up a bit...

I am so hyped to see the Richard-centric episode...been waiting for that for a long time... Yay!

Personally, I think Sawyer's plan is a little dimwitted. Does he know how to pilot a sub through the open ocean? I'm guessing not. I assumed his plan was to have Widmore and Locke-ness Monster duke it out and then go off the island with whomever wins. After all, he can simply tell Widmore that Locke didn't believe him, and still have a shot at leaving with whomever wins.

My theory is that Jack will "become" the new Jacob, in time for the showdown with MIB/Locke. After all, from early on, this has all been kind of a showdown between the two...so it would just be a stepped up version of the conflict.

I'm thinking the parallels and interaction between the current time on the island, and the Sideways time off the island, will be more explained as we get closer. For example, in the previous episode, Ben redeemed himself in both timelines, and in this one, Sawyer put his trust in another, in both timelines.

[edit on 17-3-2010 by Gazrok]

Great episode that continues to set up some big moments in the upcoming episodes.

Sawyer being a cop, did not see that coming. So clearly he was a cop all along. And so was Myles. Nothing in Sawyer's previous "flashbacks" indicated he was or wasn't a cop. But in Myles' "flashbacks", what we were shown seemed to indicate that he was in fact, not a cop. So I'm not really seeing how they connect this. If the plane crashes, Myles is a guy who speaks to the dead, seems to be on rough times both personally and financially. If the plane doesn't crash, suddenly he's a cop who is partners with Sawyer? How did Sawyer not immediately know Myles when he came to the island a few seasons ago? I don't understand how they couldn't know each other because they were clearly partners prior to the crash of Oceanic 815. And if they were partners and they did know each other, it's not realistic that some sort of exchange wouldn't have taken place regarding their off-island partnership. I realize they were friends in the Dharma initiative, but somewhere along the way this would have been discussed.

I'm hoping someone has a better answer because this sudden huge void in the plot is somewhat annoying. As is, which has been mention by Gaz, his plan to take the submarine off the island and out into the ocean. An odd weak spot in the storyline/plot.

And I wish Widmore would have had more involvement in this episode. I expect a centric episode of him at some point this season.

Next week's episode is going to be one of the biggest of all-time, second only to the upcoming Jacob/Essau centric episode.

I'll post more thoughts as I think of them. Just finished the episode as I recorded it last night.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Personally, I think Sawyer's plan is a little dimwitted.

That's an overstatement - it's dimwitted to the extreme. I assume that Sawyer means that, while the two forces are fighting, he will hijack the sub and tell the pilot (?) of the sub to get him, Kate, and whoever else off of the Island (it will be the opposite of what him, Kate, and Juliet did last season). This plan assumes a lot, like there even being a pilot on the sub during his hijacking and etc, but maybe he can pull it off.

My theory is that Jack will "become" the new Jacob, in time for the showdown with MIB/Locke. After all, from early on, this has all been kind of a showdown between the two...so it would just be a stepped up version of the conflict.

This is hinted in Jacob's conditioning of Jack in "Lighthouse" and it's basically confirmed in the centric of episode 14, "The Candidate," which is Jack centric.

For example, in the previous episode, Ben redeemed himself in both timelines, and in this one, Sawyer put his trust in another, in both timelines.

Nice! Didn't think of it like this.

Originally posted by chissler
So clearly he was a cop all along. And so was Myles. Nothing in Sawyer's previous "flashbacks" indicated he was or wasn't a cop.

I think you are not realizing that these two "timelines" are separate. Maybe they will somehow merge, but, as of now, they are distinctly different, and so Sawyer and Miles, in the universe that we have come to know, were never cops, but in this new universe they are.

How did Sawyer not immediately know Myles when he came to the island a few seasons ago?

Again, the two "universes" are separate.

I find it amusing that all of our Losties are in California, and so they all can interact with each other, but, then again, we were used to this since maybe the first season.

Here is the trailer for the next episode.

reply to post by they see ALL


But the season thus far existed on two time lines; one that existed if the plane crashed & one if the plane did not crash!

And only now with the Myles character does there appear to be a conflict.



[edit on 3-18-2010 by chissler]

Originally posted by SilentShadow
Wouldn't the whole; "they all need to come back" statement just be a simplification over "all the chosen need to return"?

Meaning... people like Walt, Aaron, Sun's baby etc it is not imperative they return.

Yeah but, those three weren't exactly nobodies in the story. I'm going to be disappointed if nothing is done with Walt. Honestly, we've gone through time travel, we have characters that talk to the dead, others that never age.. its unacceptable to me to think that the writers are unable to form an idea to bring him back.

I keep wondering if there are answers that I've simply missed because it still feels like questions on top of questions.. :shk: The Matrix trilogy did that to me and it still drives me crazy.

And only now with the Myles character does there appear to be a conflict.

That's a key point. They had to have been partners BEFORE the crash, so this represents a time change PRIOR to the flight. So, maybe the time change occurred in the 70's, instead? We're just ASSUMING it's an IF the plane didn't crash thing, when the timeline could have diverged earlier. (such as when the bomb went off)...(and in doing so, caused 2 rifts...)

#1. The bomb went off, the visiting Jack, Sawyer, etc. were shifted to #2, the island sank, and the ripple caused events to change with the "OTHER" Jack, Sawyer, etc. (who still existed in the 70's on their respective mainlands)...

and

#2. The bomb didn't go off, and we see that timeline going on as well. The Ajira flight travelled into this timeline, from the non-altered timeline that existed back when our Losties got off the island....

When the split happened, they are still different timelines, but share a connection, in which some data can be transferred between the two at an instantaneous rate (i.e. when we see the parallel choices made by the same character, in two different times)...

Just a theory...

[edit on 18-3-2010 by Gazrok]

reply to post by Gazrok


Yep I recall in the episode Miles said Sawyer was on Oceanic 815 like 3 days prior, right? He seemed really settled in as a cop and his partnership with Miles seemed deeper than being three days old, I'm thinking the timeline change existed prior to the flight, too.


[edit on 3/18/2010 by MrAndy]

reply to post by Gazrok


That's a good point. The timeline we're operating on right now is also being influenced by what happened in the 70's, assuming that the explosion did not wipe all of that out.

reply to post by they see ALL


They're not in separate universes though. The timeline on the island is everything we've known since season 1 when Oceanic 815 crashed. And the flashes in this season are nothing but an extension of each characters story if the plane did not crash. Not a separate universe, just a continuation of that story line with one detail altered.

Another part of this is the Ben component. Ben was on the island for much of his life and prior to the crash of 815, he was comfortable in the leadership position of the Others. If the plane doesn't crash, why isn't he still on the island as their leader? Why is he suddenly a high school teacher now? This detail seems to confirm that the explosion in last season has impacted both story lines.

And with this detail being considered, it helps explain both gaps with the Ben, Myles & Sawyer.

Originally posted by chissler
But the season thus far existed on two time lines; one that existed if the plane crashed & one if the plane did not crash!

To be honest, I was confused by your post. I thought I understood it, though, but I guess not. You wonder why Sawyer did not recognize Miles when the latter came to the Island in the timeline we have always known, right? For me, the answer is simple. Why would he recognize him? They didn't know each other in this timeline before the crash! In the new one, however, they do.

And only now with the Myles character does there appear to be a conflict.

I don't see a problem. I look forward to further discussing this with you if you still see one.

Originally posted by MrAndy
I keep wondering if there are answers that I've simply missed because it still feels like questions on top of questions.. :shk: The Matrix trilogy did that to me and it still drives me crazy.

Post the questions you have! That's what this thread is for! I think that the minor questions will have to be answered by the fans since there is simply too little time left to address everything.

Originally posted by Gazrok
That's a key point. They had to have been partners BEFORE the crash, so this represents a time change PRIOR to the flight.

Yeah, I think Jack's plan affected things way before the crash. Jack did not just make the plan land because things from way before the crash have changed in the new timeline, such as Ben not being on the Island and Jack having a son.

When the split happened, they are still different timelines, but share a connection, in which some data can be transferred between the two at an instantaneous rate (i.e. when we see the parallel choices made by the same character, in two different times)...

That's what I am thinking. This new timeline is not just a mere "what if" scenario to make fans wonder what would happen if Flight 815 landed.

Originally posted by chissler
They're not in separate universes though. The timeline on the island is everything we've known since season 1 when Oceanic 815 crashed. And the flashes in this season are nothing but an extension of each characters story if the plane did not crash. Not a separate universe, just a continuation of that story line with one detail altered.

I have to disagree with you here. This new timeline is not just a nice "what if" scenario intended to make fans happy. Is this what you are thinking? Remember, Juliet said Jack's plan worked and she seemed to have a vision of herself in the new timeline. Thus, the new timeline is something tangible - it's real. Also, more than one detail is changed in the new timeline. The plane landing is not the only thing that changed.

If the plane doesn't crash, why isn't he still on the island as their leader? Why is he suddenly a high school teacher now?

We didn't get a definitive answer, but Roger (Ben's father) said that him and Ben left the Island. (I think it was Roger.) He wanted to explain to Ben how things might have been different if they stayed. Well, they would be dead (probably)! After all, the Island is sunk in this timeline.

I forgot to mention something two posts ago. Since there is a Jacob-centric episode coming, does this mean that Jacob is indeed not dead? Locke had a centric episode this season, but, I guess, we can ignore that since the MIB is acting as Locke.

Additionally, Episode 13, "The Last Recruit," might be a multi-centric one!

Originally posted by they see ALL
I have to disagree with you here. This new timeline is not just a nice "what if" scenario intended to make fans happy.

That's not what I think. And I think I've actually said that several times myself in this thread that it is not just a storyline just to appease fans. I do believe there is something tangible in this storyline. However, it is a storyline that is an extension of the existing storyline if the plane did not crash. It is not a separate universe, it is just the same story line minus the crash. (IMO) And this isn't saying it is irrelevant or unconnected, as I'm certain it is.

But considering this timeline's only difference in the current one on the island is that the plane did not crash, there are some gaps in the plot as I see it.

Ben oddly not being on the island all the sudden, when nothing up to the point in the crash indicated that he would be leaving. Myles & Sawyer were obviously partners before 815 crashed, yet didn't know each other when Myles first came to the island. It's like Jack's kid, he had that kid before he came to the island. It was a fact though that was never presented. Just like Sawyer being a cop. Those facts were facts anyways, with or without the crash.

But considering this timeline's only difference in the current one on the island is that the plane did not crash, there are some gaps in the plot as I see it.

But it's NOT the only change.

1. Sawyer is a cop, prior to the flight (independent of whether the plane landed or not)
2. Ben and his dad left the island, prior to the flight (they left when Ben was a kid, at the time of the plane, Ben was an adult, and in charge)
3. Jack has a son, aged prior to the flight

There are quite a few changes, independent of the plan crash, that point to the time alteration being way before the flight took place. In addition, we can use Ben's age at the time of the flash sideways, to assume that this shift occurred in the 70's, probably at the time the bomb went off...(when the Dharma folks were evacuating the island...hence Ben and his dad leaving?)

reply to post by Gazrok


Great point.

I think the timelines are separate. Both happening at the same time.

Parallel lives/universes.

Some different situations, a few similar experiences.

It's got to be more than that though...or why bother showing them?

There has to be an identifiable connection between the two of them that takes place instantaneously...and so far, it seems to be a similar change in character that occurs in both (i.e. Ben redeeming himself, Sawyer trusting another, etc. )

reply to post by Gazrok


I can't think of it off the top of my head, but there was a similar situation for Jack where a common theme was evident in both timelines.