I Think I'm a Clone Now

So, I was thinking about the Quantum Suicide experiment. If you're unfamiliar with it, it's basically an extension of the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum physics.

The Many Worlds Interpretation says that for every time a quantum wave function collapses, every possible result is realized in a separate world. For example, when a photon approaches a half silvered mirror, it will either bounce off or go through. Both of these outcomes happen, each in separate universes.

Quantum suicide (or Quantum Immortality) says that every time you die, there is a small, but real possibility that you will survive in another universe (i.e. if you get shot, the bullet will quantum tunnel through your head, leaving you unharmed). Rinse and repeat, and you get quantum immortality.

Which brings me to what I was thinking about earlier today. See, the problem many people have with quantum immortality is that they say the you that lives on in a separate universe isn't really you, it's more like a clone of you. Either the real you that gets killed stops existing, or goes on to live in the afterlife (there are problems with this, but that's off topic).

But, aren't we all basically clones of ourselves, anyway? See, if you could step outside of time and look at your life, you'd see a new you for every unit of time (Planck time, about 1.456*10^-42 seconds). Therefore, the me that's sitting here typing this is distinctly different than the me of ten minutes ago that was making a bowl of chili. Self is an illusion; we are nothing more than a series of clones.

Using this argument, I believe that quantum immortality is not only possible, but likely.

In the words of Weird Al Yankovic, "I think I'm a Clone Now."

So we are nothing more than a series of clones? So it goes if I were to die in one reality, my consciousness might slip into another reality of self?

Originally posted by born2BWild
So we are nothing more than a series of clones? So it goes if I were to die in one reality, my consciousness might slip into another reality of self?

Essentially, yes. There are already countless other "you's" existing in other universes. If you were to stop existing, you wouldn't realize it, because it's impossible to perceive nonexistence. You would simply continue your awareness in a self that still exists.

reply to post by LiquidLight


I understand what you are getting at, but if I die here, I die here, there's no more consciousness for this one. I wouldn't find myself in an alternate in any way, shape, or form. So there are alternates in other universes that went left instead of right, got involved with someone that I didn't, but they are not me, and have no effect on me here... so what? It's just so much philosophy until we can actually jump alternates, in which case there can be only one.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by LiquidLight

 

I understand what you are getting at, but if I die here, I die here, there's no more consciousness for this one. I wouldn't find myself in an alternate in any way, shape, or form. So there are alternates in other universes that went left instead of right, got involved with someone that I didn't, but they are not me, and have no effect on me here... so what? It's just so much philosophy until we can actually jump alternates, in which case there can be only one.

Well, my point is that even if we never branched, that if there were only one of each of us for each moment of time, we're still clones of ourselves. One clone for each unit of Planck time. How can you say that a clone of you right now on this time line is any more or less you than a clone of you in a separate universe?

To put it another way, imagine a checkers board (or chess, othello, or what have you), Now, start putting checkers down from left to right on the bottom row. After a one or two spaces, start putting checkers on the second row while still putting them on the bottom row. Continue doing this, every now and then going up another row while still putting them on the previous rows.

Each column represents a unit of time, and each row represents a universe split off from the one before it.

When you get to the end, you'll have eight checkers on the bottom row, maybe seven on the second row, five or six on the third row, and so forth. What I'm saying is that each and every one of these checkers represents you, at different points in time and universes, and they are all equal. if one checker dies (stops existing), obviously there will be no more checkers for the remainder of that row, but you will still exist as all of the other checkers, and this is what you will perceive.

reply to post by LiquidLight

every time you die, there is a small, but real
possibility that you will survive in another universe

The corollary of this, would of course be that it's very likely that "you" have already died many, many times in other universes. But do you interpret that by perceiving yourself as the "continuation" of some other you that already died?

I believe that quantum immortality is not only
possible, but likely.

It may be likely, but the way you've presented it seems preculiar to me. If there's no continuity of consciousness amongst the various incarnations in each universe, does it really make sense to think of it as "immortality" in the sense of "one you dies but another lives on?"

the me that's sitting here typing this is distinctly
different than the me of ten minutes ago

Yes, but because of "memory" there is the appearance of continuity of consciousness. It's much more intuitive to perceive past self---> current self as one being. Or at least, a form of consciousness that is more obviously related. It is less intuitive to relate "yous" that exist outside of your perception as being "same being."

Not to suggest that awareness of other instances couldn't happen...but from the perspective of a consciounsess that was aware of those other instances...I would think that the event that we perceive as "death" would be somewhat insignificant. From the perspective of that being...the entirey of "you" that you perceive as dying isn't "you" at all...any more than one of your cells is "you."


[edit on 21-12-2009 by LordBucket]

Eddie Money lives........

@nd line

reply to post by LordBucket


Well, the implications of what I said may be somewhat peculiar, but in reality there's no need for a lack of continuity of consciousness. You proceed from the moment before your death in one universe, to the next moment in a universe that just split off. The original time line stops (for you anyway), so the split can be seen as a continuation of that time line instead of what it really is, a branching.

I know I implied that you might jump around from clone to clone like a chicken with its head cut off, but that's not necessary for the theory to hold water.

reply to post by LiquidLight


deep , just totally deep, way to heavy for my campfire'

give me some more of your intellect

reply to post by LiquidLight

You proceed from the moment before your death in one universe, to the next moment in a universe that just split off. The original time line stops (for you anyway), so the split can be seen as a continuation of that time line instead of what it really is, a branching.

...wouldn't it make more sense for those alternate universes to exist concurrently with one another?

To put it another way...why suppose that the collapse of the waveform is anything other than a purely local perspective?

collapse of the waveform, why aren't you on that millionaire show?

you wouldn't have to use your lifelines.

reply to post by LordBucket


well, they do exist concurrently, it's just from the perspective of the perished individual that the one universe ceases to exist. My point is there is no cessation of consciousness, the individual will move smoothly into the next universe, without loss of continuity.

As for the collapse of the wavefunction being a purely local event, well that's the Copenhagen Interpretation; I'm working purely under the assumption that the Many Worlds Interpretation is the correct one. Do I know for sure? No. But it just makes more sense to me that way.

Dig the theory. I have to admit I get a bit confused about what happens in old age...is there a 'set' of universes filled with nothing but 150+ year olds?

Originally posted by Unresponsible
Dig the theory. I have to admit I get a bit confused about what happens in old age...is there a 'set' of universes filled with nothing but 150+ year olds?

Well, two people probably wouldn't experience extreme old age in the same universe. It's really kind of depressing, because the implication is that we'll live out eternity alone.

But, according to this theory, there are many, many universes with individuals who's consciousness is 1,000, 2,000, even 10,000 years old.

The fundamental flaw with schrodigner's cat.

If this is all true, you'd never know and it wouldn't matter ANYWAYS, so it's actually a waste of your quantum conscious to even think about it.

Originally posted by Unresponsible
Dig the theory. I have to admit I get a bit confused about what happens in old age...is there a 'set' of universes filled with nothing but 150+ year olds?

No. (But who knows with multiple realities/timelines)

However, if the OP's theory is correct, there are plenty of young bodies for us to get recycled into. Then we will age and die again, and wind up in another younger body, or older - depending on the age at which you die and whether or not you move 'forward' or backward in time when you die.

*This is just like that Jet Li movie "The One" where he kills versions of himself in other universes to steal their power... Sorta.

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
The fundamental flaw with schrodigner's cat.

If this is all true, you'd never know and it wouldn't matter ANYWAYS, so it's actually a waste of your quantum conscious to even think about it.

I think once I reach 150 or 200 years old, I can be relatively certain that this theory is true.

I wouldn't say were all " clones". If you were to die in this dimension, whatever you were would simply be absorbed by the true " you" ... your soul.

isn't that what we really are anyway ?? you are you, .. in every dimension. we are all small parts of ourselves.

no single incarnation harnesses the soul, but it the soul which houses all of it, all of us.

the soul could be compared to a grand puppeteer, .... which each string governing a different soul. we spoke alot about this on one of my threads:

www.abovetopsecret.com...