Truth : The First Victim, The Last to Be Un-Buried, Never to Rest...

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posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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I started this thread because of my replies to the thread below.

Go See Avatar, Worth the Money, No Political Party Message


Original Quote by SKL :

With being who I am, I have the unique ability to see all angles, the unique ability to see into the heart of a conflict, and see exactly where the truth lies.

Usually, in any conflict, truth is the first casualty, the first to die, the last to be salvaged from the rubble of the conflict, and never to be buried because it is dragged about like a crude and barbaric trophy like the head of a dead king carried on a pike for all to see.


I thought I would see how many people here really and truly know about conflict, and agree and or disagree with my thoughts on the above quote, as well as the hypocrisy of one side seeing themselves as right and the other as wrong, regardless of the particular point of view and perspective which is given, seen, or shared within a conflict.

Whether you agree with what I am saying, or not, I feel this is a valuable topic to speak on here on ATS, because as conspiracy theorist's we do often forget that there may be a political motivation, whether we are trying to "uncover the truth", or whether we see someone else is trying desperately to "cover up the truth".

As the saying goes...The truth shall set you free...

This is where I sit, right smack dab, in the middle, often watching both sides, my head swinging back like watching an exaggerated ping-pong match with no desire to cheer on either side, seeing no clear winner because both sides have their own unique perspective.

Matrix Ping Pong


It is up to that who is best prepared, and best suited for the battle, and best adapted to the environment to fight, struggle, or whip the other person's proverbial butt.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Perspective (Cognitive)

Perspective in theory of cognition is the choice of a context or a reference (or the result of this choice) from which to sense, categorize, measure or codify experience, cohesively forming a coherent belief, typically for comparing with another.

One may further recognize a number of subtly distinctive meanings, close to those of paradigm, point of view, reality tunnel, umwelt, or weltanschauung.

To choose a perspective is to choose a value system and, unavoidably, an associated belief system.

When we look at a business perspective, we are looking at a monetary base values system and beliefs.

When we look at a human perspective, it is a more social value system and its associated beliefs.


I am of course utilizing the silly "Matrix Ping Pong" video to make a point about the exaggerated conflict, and how perspective can shift at the drop of a hat, and how we have to look at things from different angles, often forgetting your particular party affiliations, your religious upbringings, and your particular perspective, in order to get to the truth of the matter.


Quote from : Wikipedia : Truth

Truth can have a variety of meanings, from the state of being the case, being in accord with a particular fact or reality, being in accord with the body of real things, events, actuality, or fidelity to an original or to a standard.

In archaic usage it could be fidelity, constancy or sincerity in action, character, and utterance.

The term has no single definition about which a majority of professional philosophers and scholars agree, and various theories and views of truth continue to be debated.

There are differing claims on such questions as what constitutes truth; what things are truthbearers capable of being true or false; how to define and identify truth; the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play; and whether truth is subjective, relative, objective, or absolute.

This article introduces the various perspectives and claims, both today and throughout history.


While some may not agree, I am sure others will, that while facts are logical and one can ascertain the "truth" from a supply of facts, more often than not something has been overlooked.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]




posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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The "truth" is in the eye of the beholder. It's a funny thing "truth" is. "Facts" exist to found absolutely any "truth" you could imagine. I see where you are coming from entirely. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That movie did one thing to me. Made me realize that my ultimate "truth" is as follows; Oppression is wrong. That movie is the saddest movie I have ever seen.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Namaste
The "truth" is in the eye of the beholder. It's a funny thing "truth" is. "Facts" exist to found absolutely any "truth" you could imagine. I see where you are coming from entirely. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That movie did one thing to me. Made me realize that my ultimate "truth" is as follows; Oppression is wrong. That movie is the saddest movie I have ever seen.


That's exactly my point, truth is in the eye of the beholder, because to me, just because the winner won, does not mean they necessarily should have, they fought harder perhaps, for their version of the truth.

While this thread is not about the movie, more so about the truth, I can see when you're coming from.

I saw both the horrendous actions of a Hegemony, and the actions of a struggling rebellion, and a history lesson within, not specified to a direct country, but to the idea itself, that like you stated, oppression is wrong.

I wholeheartedly concur.

I saw sadness throughout the story but I saw as well that the vanquished can turn the tide, before they are eradicated, and that there is yet hope for those who do not give up.

I see through the conflicts in life and see not a winner or loser, but two differing sides, and often both are wrong, and both are right, and both are about as silly as that video I used in my original post as a demonstration of conflict.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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You are absolutely right. That's what makes all of this so complicated to me. The "truth" is actually more vague than the static illusion it provides when one first seeks it.

There is oppression all around, but when suppressing oppression; when does one become the oppressor oneself?



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Namaste
You are absolutely right. That's what makes all of this so complicated to me. The "truth" is actually more vague than the static illusion it provides when one first seeks it.

There is oppression all around, but when suppressing oppression; when does one become the oppressor oneself?


Another good point.

This is why I always try to walk a middle path.

Between both versions, ultimately, I know where the truth begins, and the fiction ends.

It is not always easy, because sometimes I have to choose a side, but I would rather not choose a side that is wrong by choosing no sides, at all, choosing instead, my side, the middle.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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I like your including the definition of perspective. I once read that there are as many sides to an argument as there are people involved. Or to put it simply sometimes you need to put yourself in someone else's shoes to see something from their perspective. Most of us suck at being impartial, we drag all of our preconceived notions into an issue. I guess what I'm trying to say is the "truth" all depends on where we stand when he hear it.{or see, taste,etc} Our personal point of reference means we miss some detail someone else picks up from their point of reference.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Original Quote by SKL :

With being who I am, I have the unique ability to see all angles, the unique ability to see into the heart of a conflict, and see exactly where the truth lies.


I think anyone CAN have this ability. What prevents them is their attachment to what they WANT the truth to be.


I have always said that I believe 2 people can have two entirely different points of view and both be right.
If we could all realize that there is no "right" way for everyone, we'd have a lot fewer conflicts.

The way perspective was explained to me is - imagine 10 people standing in a circle around an elephant. They're all very close to the animal and are looking straight ahead. The one looking into his eye may say, "What a beautiful and soulful creature"!



He is going to have a very different perspective than the one looking at the other end...



Yet, they're looking at the same thing. It just depends on where you "stand" in life as to how you're going to "perceive" something.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Your explanation is what I was trying to articulate
I like your way less wordy and it has pictures



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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I like this thread's idea of trying to define the meaning of truth. Especially in a place like ATS, for me at least, It can be so confusing trying to figure out who is right, who is wrong, what is real, what is fake, what is hoaxed, and the reason's and motivations behind them all.

Like you perfectly said, it is all about perspective. Unfortunately, I'm still trying to figure out what truth means to me, and I think it could be a lifelong battle that can never be resolved.

What I've arrived at so far, is that truth is a far more personal thing than most people care to admit. I think there is a difference between truth and reality. Reality is the hard facts, the way things are, and truth is someone's interpretation of that reality.

There is no real right truth, there is only reality and perspective. That doesn't mean that there is no right and wrong, just that perspective is the key to understanding why people act and believe the way they do.

It really is quite easy, for me at least, to walk in someone else's shoes, but to see and understand what they experience and how they perceive it is a whole other quest.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by hangedman13
I like your including the definition of perspective. I once read that there are as many sides to an argument as there are people involved. Or to put it simply sometimes you need to put yourself in someone else's shoes to see something from their perspective. Most of us suck at being impartial, we drag all of our preconceived notions into an issue. I guess what I'm trying to say is the "truth" all depends on where we stand when he hear it.{or see, taste,etc} Our personal point of reference means we miss some detail someone else picks up from their point of reference.


Thanks, hangedman13, I tried to do a well-rounded idea for this thread.

You saw my point exactly, "truth" is not so easily defined.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


BH, my love, I love the analogy of the elephant.

Yes, anyone can do this, it is not uniquely just myself, but I felt quoting myself was apropos since I had quoted it in regards to the other thread.

Not as an attack of the original poster either, but about "truth" and how we define it.

Glad you included the pictures as well as posted here, BH.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Monts
I like this thread's idea of trying to define the meaning of truth. Especially in a place like ATS, for me at least, It can be so confusing trying to figure out who is right, who is wrong, what is real, what is fake, what is hoaxed, and the reason's and motivations behind them all.

Like you perfectly said, it is all about perspective. Unfortunately, I'm still trying to figure out what truth means to me, and I think it could be a lifelong battle that can never be resolved.

What I've arrived at so far, is that truth is a far more personal thing than most people care to admit. I think there is a difference between truth and reality. Reality is the hard facts, the way things are, and truth is someone's interpretation of that reality.

There is no real right truth, there is only reality and perspective. That doesn't mean that there is no right and wrong, just that perspective is the key to understanding why people act and believe the way they do.

It really is quite easy, for me at least, to walk in someone else's shoes, but to see and understand what they experience and how they perceive it is a whole other quest.


I have never determined the entire truth about life, and I will never, until I meet my maker.

Reality and perspective are subjective though too, to how and why they are defined, and to what end the definition goes.



As the lesson of The Lady in the Red Dress went, be careful of what you see, it may not be what you're really seeing.


(click to open player in new window)


[edit on 21-12-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]





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