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Priest outrages police by telling congregation: "My advice to the poor is to shoplift

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posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by heyo
Has anyone ever worked in grocery? I'm sure most of us have. Well, I stocked shelves for Canada's biggest corporation, the Great Canadian Superstore, and the amount of waste is absolutely mind-boggling. Anything dented, spilled on, cracked, Cut while opening, would be thrown out.
There were copious amounts of food thrown out daily. Enough to feed a lot of families. I remember my feelings of disgust more than I remember the exact amount. It was not like this in the small-town grocery chainstore I grew up in!
Edible food is to be thrown away and not eaten. Period. You are under surveillance as well, so don't even think about it.
Now THAT is a perfect example of corporate greed.


I fed my family by "stealing" from supermarket dumpsters for 2 years so I could complete my studies at a private college while on a meagre sole parent pension. It's illegal, but not immoral. I also kept chooks and bought oats, brown rice, beans and milk powder wholesale, and 2 greengrocers saved their best rubbish for my chooks, and we ate the best half of that, too.

Very few people who steal actually need to, but I would never look down on the few for whom it is the only alternative to starving.

Charities are not always an answer. I've waited four hours for a demeaning interview when my kids and I were starving, been talked down to as though I was dirt, and then handed one plastic shopping bag full of really mouldy yogurts and a loaf of mouldy bread. And I've spoken to others who've had the same experience.

I've also organised a charity group. We gave each family two big boxes, one of fresh fruit and veges, one of eggs and groceries. No way was any group I was part of going to insult hungry people with rubbish.




posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 



illiterate nerd
-December_Rain


Main Entry: il·lit·er·ate
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)i(l)-ˈli-t(ə-)rət\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin illiteratus, from in- + litteratus literate
Date: 15th century

1 : having little or no education; especially : unable to read or write
2 a : showing or marked by a lack of familiarity with language and literature b : violating approved patterns of speaking or writing
3 : showing or marked by a lack of acquaintance with the fundamentals of a particular field of knowledge
synonyms see ignorant

— illiterate noun

— il·lit·er·ate·ly adverb

— il·lit·er·ate·ness noun
Merriam-Webster





Main Entry: nerd
Pronunciation: \ˈnərd\
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps from nerd, a creature in the children's book If I Ran the Zoo (1950) by Dr. Seuss (Theodor Geisel)
Date: 1951

: an unstylish, unattractive, or socially inept person; especially : one slavishly devoted to intellectual or academic pursuits

— nerd·i·ness \ˈnər-dē-nəs\ noun

— nerd·ish \ˈnər-dish\ adjective

— nerdy \-dē\ adjective


You sir, have degraded yourself.

And, on top of that, further so, because you're lacking an understanding of what this man's point is, the point is that it's better to steal from the rich and give to the poor than it is to be poor and suffer.

Robin Hood complex, and rightfully so, your morals are incompetent and misguided. Go sleep in the streets and let me know how that works out for you.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by Revolution-2012
 
Star for you! I'm glad somebody pointed out that oxymoron. I get so depressed by people sometimes that I just cant be bloody bothered.
On the subject of stealing, I'll just say that I dont judge. Capitalism = dog eat dog. Direct theft is morally no different to corporate hegemony. When the latter stops, I'll reconsider my attitude to the former.
On the subject of shoplifting: its a bad risk vs gain equation; you're putting yourself on offer for plenty of trouble & what you can walk out of a shop with just isn't worth it.
Still, as the priest said, its better than violent mugging or desperate prostitution. A lot of Manchester is pretty poor. A lot of Catholics in the UK are endemically poor - there's very few people left who are religious who are not poor. I wonder if he told them that because he knows some of them are committing worse crime? Makes sense to me...



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Well, stealing is going to get you fed faster than praying. So considering the source, it's good (if not exactly legal or reasonable) advice.

A quote I like; 'I prayed for a bicycle and didn't get one. So I stole one, and asked for forgiveness'.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:25 AM
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I also should ask, was this preacher a Jerimiah Wright? His church teaches that black people will kill whitey and take over America, and to hate whites. Kind of racist, but only if you are nonblack...



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:15 AM
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Isn't there a Congressman who has a sign of his desk that says "Don't steal, the government doesn't like competition."



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Oks two wrongs do not make it right, But I tell you something, all those greedy bankers who screwed tax payers out off thier money, should be forced to give these people, (who are scraping by or stealing to keep thier families from starving), thier bonuses.


But no, those bankers will probably be sitting to a 5 course meal, using our money, to pay for it. Such a nice Message to send to all of us whom, have lost our jobs, liveyhood as a result of business going bust, since the banks refuse to help them out.

If they are going to steal, steal from those who caused this hardship, the bankers!!!!






[edit on 22-12-2009 by Laurauk]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by thecrow001
The poor just need some help with enjoyment of their lives, i am not saying poor peo-ple are on happy but they need things to help them make life easier and more enjoyable.


I absolutely agree. But this is where it is the duty of people to help people in need. This does not give the right to start TAKING from anyone. Again, if people would focus on the bigger picture they would realize that this "justification" is exactly how we got into the mess we are in.


theres always a limit to what people can take but when it comes down to it, the poor will require less to help and enjoy their lives from taking from the rich.


That's not true. Do you think poor people have less "desires" than rich people? Do you think they would like silk sheets and down comforters to curl up in? Don't you think it starts as a loaf of bread and escalates to "well, they have SO much more than us they will never miss it...."


theres a line in this kind of thinking, and your post identifys that, we just need to remember the mistakes which caused the primary situations.


Again -- I am not saying the poor should suffer. Quite the opposite. But I am saying that resorting to stealing is going to do nothing more than create a greater divide between the haves and have-nots.

Greed, entitlement, and the justification of illegal acts for the "greater good" is exactly what is causing the downfall of the US and should its citizens suddenly adapt this same premise -- we will surely end up turning on each other. Encouraging people to follow suit is not, in my opinion, going to help anyone in the long run.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 07:59 AM
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Bad advice, better advice for poor families needing food would be to wait at the back of the supermarket and ask for all the perfectly edible stuff before they throw it all away. I urge anyone to actually go and see for yourself, even if you don't want any. It's a disgusting sight to say the least how much goes to waste.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Solomons]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by Solomons
 


Oh I know this happens here over in the UK also. You would think, these supermarkets, would take the food that is being chucked out, to homeless shelters. But no, they would rather themall starve. Disgusting.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


Wow that's kinda badass lol. I was in a car accident that sidelined me for a couple months. I needed my rent paid as i only had a couple grand saved. It took me 6 weeks to get the money from an assistance program for people with a temporary need. Now I don't count my experience as anything other than a gift, but if I hada family to feed, the story changes dramatically.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:29 AM
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I think if any of us were starving in a post apocalyptic world, even the 'holier than thous' might be tempted to steal.
But the problem with what the priest is saying is 'define need'. What he is saying may well be taken as a green light by those who are greedy rather than needy.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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The priest's advice definitely represents a sticky situation.

If your child is starving and you need food to feed him, I'd say go ahead and do it.

But remember this: for every action like this you must take, there are hundreds and possibly thousands of others in similar situations. When you steal bread, and 10% of those others steal bread, the costs start to add up.

Eventually there will be enough bread stolen that the company will have to increase the price of the bread to compensate for the loss of the product. This will cause more people to be pushed into the need to steal to survive, which in turn will eventually cause another rise in bread prices, etc.

I worked at a national fast food chain for awhile and a similar situation happened. The cooks and other employees always ate cheese while they worked because it was filling and free, even though it was against the rules. A few months later, the company bumped up the menu prices to compensate for the fact that they had to purchase more cheese in order to keep up with actual demand of the food and "cover the loss" from employees eating.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 



So in other words, he used a net.

God didn't give him that net. he made it himself. Nor did god give him the fish - he caught the carp because carp live at the bottom, where he trawled his net.

The saying is, "god helps those who help themselves," but the truth is, if you're already helping yourself, god doesn't figure in. At best, he's just sitting back watching you do stuff.

I've not had a chance to read through all the posts, but I just want to clarify a point I obviously failed to make clear.

My friend was standing atop a dam wall. He threw the net straight down & pulled it up after a few moments. It was a long way down to the water, but an impossible distance down to the bottom - even if he'd wanted to get there, and had had enough string, he could only have gone straight down. No bottom trawling - just in & out.

Of course he made the net - as did the disciples in the New Testament who caught nothing all night - until Christ told them to try once more.

As to God simply watching - I believe that is indeed the normal course of events. Yet the whole point of what happened is that God has given specific promises which believers have found to be reliable in their own experience. In this case the promise is:


"...seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you".


Not only are such promises trustworthy, they reflect genuine Christianity, whereas this priest's advice (or your remark, which I was responding to:


stealing is going to get you fed faster than praying
)
are inconsistent with following Christ.

But while you have not claimed to aspire to a life of faith, the other man has. Consequently his statement is manifestly antithetical to his position. And blatantly irresponsible.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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But if you're poor, then why have kids in the first place? Surely, even the poor should have the sense to know that if you can't feed yourself, then you can't be expected to feed your kids.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Solomons
Bad advice, better advice for poor families needing food would be to wait at the back of the supermarket and ask for all the perfectly edible stuff before they throw it all away. I urge anyone to actually go and see for yourself, even if you don't want any. It's a disgusting sight to say the least how much goes to waste.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Solomons]


If someone wants it, they will charge for it. I would be surprised if this worked out at all.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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"In a January 1988 interview with National Catholic Reporter, Aristide said,"The solution is revolution, first in the spirit of the Gospel; Jesus could not accept people going hungry. It is a conflict between classes, rich and poor. My role is to preach and organize...."[citation needed] Father Aristide was expelled from his Salesian order in 1988.[citation needed] At the time, the Salesians said the priest's political activities were an "incitement to hatred and violence" and out of line with his role as a clergyman.


en.wikipedia.org...


With food prices rising, Haiti's poorest can't afford even a daily plate of rice, and some take desperate measures to fill their bellies.

Charlene, 16 with a 1-month-old son, has come to rely on a traditional Haitian remedy for hunger pangs: cookies made of dried yellow dirt from the country's central plateau.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

www.projectcensored.org...



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 





A lot of Catholics in the UK are endemically poor - there's very few people left who are religious who are not poor.


One problem with your comment- the people he told were ANGLICANS. The priest in question is an ANGLICAN priest, NOT a Catholic priest.


An Anglican parish priest in northern England, Rev. Tim Jones, has caused quite a stir. Jones suggested in a sermon on Sunday that it is permissible for people facing tough times to shoplift from large national stores. On the Church of England website for the Diocese of York, Archdeacon Richard Seed rejected the priest’s call to break the law.


worldfocus.org...



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by np6888 But if you're poor, then why have kids in the first place? Surely, even the poor should have the sense to know that if you can't feed yourself, then you can't be expected to feed your kids.
Oh, its all so simple, isn't it? *Facepalm*
Tell it to your ancestors...



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 
I sit corrected. However, I stand by my assertion that there are very few people in the UK practicing any religion who are not poor.



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