Priest outrages police by telling congregation: "My advice to the poor is to shoplift

Consumerism is a plague on the world and our souls, the multi-billion dollar industry of big box stores not only rapes and pillages the 3rd world countries of their natural resources and their labour, they steal business away from small businesses run by people like you and me. Can't you see through this mess? They are plundering the world on all fronts, and stealing MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of (fake, valueless ) dollars. I see it as taking back what is already ours.. although there is a LAWFUL way to do this, and if everyone would wake up and start expanding their world a little further -even though it means a bit of REAL studying, not browsing through conspiracy/alt. news sources for forum food.

I suggest every 'poor' 'person' read this book - both words are purposefully held in separate fields of notations. 96 pages, followed by a fathomless amount of further questions and ideas to follow up on from numerous resources held on the internet.

Hopefully, someone will take this and hit the ground running. When I learned of this material, it was liberating.

Peace.

www.hackcanada.com...

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Absolutism doesn't really work.

ABSOLUTELY!

Please don't dock me MODS...that one liner had to be made. Oh, never mind, it looks like I'm on my 3rd sentence now. Well, 5th if you count this sentence right here along with my closing line.

Just sayin'

reply to post by Aggie Man


in response to that...you are right, but you are making money off of Gods creation, and therefore are stealing from him if you dont tithe! at least thats what I was told when I joined the LDS(scare tactics?)- tithing is supposed to be for food programs, outreach programs, and building congregations, and churches. I think either 10% of your wage, or time served helping others, should be implemented. I know I cannot afford to pay tithing, but would be more than willing to do some community service to help the less fortunate! just think what the world would be like if we all spent 10% of our time helping and caring for others!

Love and Light!

Originally posted by AKARonco
tithing is supposed to be for food programs, outreach programs, and building congregations, and churches.

The thing the preacher is telling the congregation to steal...FOOD! BTW, God doesn't need an outreach program...he is almighty, right? Building churches, now that's legitimate. Building congregations????? You mean marketing?

reply to post by Aggie Man


I agree, it is something I would not want to do unless absolutely needed. From what Ive heard they do a full financial analysis, and then decide what to give to you...I think its a little intrusive, but could be very much worth it, if you have hungry kids!

Originally posted by AKARonco
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

I agree, it is something I would not want to do unless absolutely needed. From what Ive heard they do a full financial analysis, and then decide what to give to you...I think its a little intrusive, but could be very much worth it, if you have hungry kids!

Anything is worth it when it comes to survival instinct. We see that reflected in today's politics too.

EDIT: I guess the upside is...if you REALLY need a handout, then that intrusive "audit" should be quick and painless, as one wouldn't have much to analyze.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by Aggie Man


I think its prolly more for building churches. I am a newby mormon, so not fully up to speed on the particulars...it is a little weird coming from a baptist background, I am still a little unsure of how it all works. I did specifically ask about the food programs though.

Originally posted by AKARonco
I did specifically ask about the food programs though.

May you and your family receive bountiful nourishment in this holiday season. That should be a basic human right...along with affordable health care

Peace and Joy on Earth!

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Absolutism doesn't really work.

ABSOLUTELY!

Please don't dock me MODS...that one liner had to be made. Oh, never mind, it looks like I'm on my 3rd sentence now. Well, 5th if you count this sentence right here along with my closing line.

Just sayin'

Kind of odd that shortly before, you said...

Stealing is wrong. PERIOD

That's absolutism. Sometimes, stealing is right. Sometimes it has no moral countenance. And yeah, sometimes it's wrong. it depends on the situation.And even when it's wrong it may be necessary, or any other list of mitigating factors.

It's easy enough for those of us who have the dough to waste on computers and internet subscriptions to pass moral judgement on stuff like this, but truth is, until you're there, you can't really make those kind of judgments, and even then, they really only apply to yourself either way. Y'dig?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Absolutism doesn't really work.

ABSOLUTELY!

Please don't dock me MODS...that one liner had to be made. Oh, never mind, it looks like I'm on my 3rd sentence now. Well, 5th if you count this sentence right here along with my closing line.

Just sayin'

Kind of odd that shortly before, you said...

Stealing is wrong. PERIOD

That's absolutism. Sometimes, stealing is right. Sometimes it has no moral countenance. And yeah, sometimes it's wrong. it depends on the situation.And even when it's wrong it may be necessary, or any other list of mitigating factors.

It's easy enough for those of us who have the dough to waste on computers and internet subscriptions to pass moral judgement on stuff like this, but truth is, until you're there, you can't really make those kind of judgments, and even then, they really only apply to yourself either way. Y'dig?

Right, BUT technically I stayed within the rules...sort of...

SO, I will concede that is MIGHT be alright to steal out of necessity...so long as you write a hot check

I suppose if I was in his congregation my first target would be the church itself. They are one of, if not the, wealthiest organizations in the world.

But I bet this priest only thinks it good to steal from other 'businesses'.

reply to post by Aggie Man


I didnt mean to imply I am needy...sorry 'bout that. I was just concerned at the time that I may be pressured into paying tithing,then I would need food assistance, to compensate.

thank you for your kind words AM, I pray you and yours, and everyone in between is happy and has food, and love this holiday season, and through the upcoming year. It is going to get better!

Love and Light!

In times gone by, I would have protested that it was wrong to steal in any circumstances. However, now that I have learnt more, I would say this.
There are people who have stolen the very land from under OUR feet, so that in some countries hardly an inch is not owned by another. Is it right that they should have stolen OUR Earth? Is it right that this wholesale theft goes unpunished?
There are people who have taken control of all Earth’s natural resources, which belong to US ALL, and would have us freeze to death, die of thirst or hunger, and watch with contempt the distended bellies of a thousand dying children. Should their theft of OUR resources go unpunished?
There are people who have taken control of OUR water, coal, oil, diamonds, gold, metals which is OURS, all of ours, and they sell it back to us for huge profit. Should we continue to allow this theft?
There are people who have sold us the right to lease OUR homes for huge profits and made it so we cannot build OUR own homes on OUR own land, and are indebted to them for the entirety of our slave lives.
There are people who control OUR food supply and distribution in OUR world, to OUR people, for huge profits which hurts OUR people, and who now seek to control the very crops of OUR world so that OUR people can continue to starve and be further controlled by those who decide who amongst US is allowed to live or to die. Do we continue to ignore this worldwide theft of OUR resources and allow the planned genocide and eugenics to proceed and go unpunished?
We did not agree to any of this theft. I for one have had enough. Game over. It is time to take back OUR birthrights. It is time to stand tall and show that we are ALL each as important, and in most cases, more so, than these thugs, these greedy selfish thieves who take from US. Maybe it is now time for recompense and punishment of these thieving madmen.

Originally posted by thecrow001
nothing wrong with helping the poor, would those rich companies miss such a little loss, nope would it help the poor 100 times more yes.

Steal from the rich to give to the poor nice story of robin hood comes to mind

Keep in mind, the original purpose of the US was in essence the same idea. The problem of course with this idea is how to define 'needy' and how to define 'rich'. Everybody's personal viewpoint is different based on what they have experienced. Sorting of like looking for WMDs that don't exist but then saying -- "Oh well, they are a terrible regime and we should topple it anyway."

It is at this point that greed begins to take shape. And with greed, comes power.

Today they take food. Tomorrow they take food and drink. The day after they decide they are also entitled to dessert.

Are the poor entitled to everything the rich have? And whom exactly is going to draw that line? The ones that have nothing and want for everything or the ones that have everything and want for nothing?

That is the problem with the justification of misdeeds.

Again, i would have encouraged the church to share with the community what was needed. If people are encouraged to simply take whatever they want from whomever they think has more, we will end up killing each other and the NWO will be the least of anyone's problems.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by lpowell0627]

There are a number of issues that arise when the question of a sermon is posed. First, there is the sermon as conceived by the preacher. Second, there is the sermon as actually delivered by the preacher and possibly recorded or filmed. Third, there is the sermon as each person hears it -- by which they participate through the subconscious in 'writing' the sermon that they are hearing.

And then fourth there are news reports about sermons which are usually part of an entirely different agenda than the ecclesiastical context. And fifth, we have the lot of commentary from blokes what wasn't there in the first place and have an axe to grind because it is religion, or politicised religion or what have you.

Somewhere in all of that one needs to take a deep breath and ask sincerely what was the priest's intention in terms of the Christian nous in which it was conceived. The desperate poor are a constant scandal to Church & State or Crown & State ... and are the main indictment of unfettered capitalism as well as the variations of corporatist fascism and the control-freaks of all-invading socialism.

The priest proposed an answer to the needs of the poor which heretofore neither crown nor political party nor ideology have been able to address. Even the priest's own Jesus threw up his hands at the question of the poor i.e., "They will always be with you." -- which was not a prophecy by Jesus but an indictment of humanity and its unwillingness to convert their way of thinking and embrace unity, Oneness and the responsibilities that come with this 'new' way of thinking and living with the stranger now one's sister, one's brother.



[edit on 21/12/09 by Pellevoisin]

This is a sign the have-nots are reaching their "enough is enough" limit with the "haves"... when a PRIEST is outraged enough to advocate sticking it to the man.. the barbarians storming the gates can't be too far behind.

reply to post by Retseh

Of course if you had a few guns...

I knew someone would make this about guns: ROFL!
Economy going down the pan? If you had some guns, it'd create jobs making bullets.
Car battery dead? If you had a gun, you could take a sparkplug out & shoot a blank into the hole to turn the engine over.
Man running naked onto a football pitch? If y'all had guns you could shoot his nads off: that'd teach him.
If you had guns... Er we do. Just not pistols. Because pistols are for easily killing people. We dont like that, but hey:
If we had more guns, we could kill each other as often as Americans. It'd be great. We'd all live in fear of our neighbours & our police would shoot shoplifters, in case they did have a gun. I cant wait...

Originally posted by lpowell0627

Originally posted by thecrow001
nothing wrong with helping the poor, would those rich companies miss such a little loss, nope would it help the poor 100 times more yes.

Steal from the rich to give to the poor nice story of robin hood comes to mind

Keep in mind, the original purpose of the US was in essence the same idea. The problem of course with this idea is how to define 'needy' and how to define 'rich'. Everybody's personal viewpoint is different based on what they have experienced. Sorting of like looking for WMDs that don't exist but then saying -- "Oh well, they are a terrible regime and we should topple it anyway."

It is at this point that greed begins to take shape. And with greed, comes power.

Today they take food. Tomorrow they take food and drink. The day after they decide they are also entitled to dessert.

Are the poor entitled to everything the rich have? And whom exactly is going to draw that line? The ones that have nothing and want for everything or the ones that have everything and want for nothing?

That is the problem with the justification of misdeeds.

Again, i would have encouraged the church to share with the community what was needed. If people are encouraged to simply take whatever they want from whomever they think has more, we will end up killing each other and the NWO will be the least of anyone's problems.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by lpowell0627]

The poor just need some help with enjoyment of their lives, i am not saying poor peo-ple are on happy but they need things to help them make life easier and more enjoyable.

theres always a limit to what people can take but when it comes down to it, the poor will require less to help and enjoy their lives from taking from the rich.

theres a line in this kind of thinking, and your post identifys that, we just need to remember the mistakes which caused the primary situations.

sorry i want on and on,

i htink people should get what i mean.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
There are a number of issues that arise when the question of a sermon is posed. First, there is the sermon as conceived by the preacher. Second, there is the sermon as actually delivered by the preacher and possibly recorded or filmed. Third, there is the sermon as each person hears it -- by which they participate through the subconscious in 'writing' the sermon that they are hearing.

And then fourth there are news reports about sermons which are usually part of an entirely different agenda than the ecclesiastical context. And fifth, we have the lot of commentary from blokes what wasn't there in the first place and have an axe to grind because it is religion, or politicised religion or what have you.

I do understand your reasoning of the psychological stance and self interpretation, but with the sheeple that follow such thing's as pastors and people of significant "Uber" types of control, it could be some very bad advice for the listener as a way to fix a troubled time.

Somewhere in all of that one needs to take a deep breath and ask sincerely what was the priest's intention in terms of the Christian nous in which it was conceived. The desperate poor are a constant scandal to Church & State or Crown & State ... and are the main indictment of unfettered capitalism as well as the variations of corporatist fascism and the control-freaks of all-invading socialism.

I once had a presiding judge tell me to "LIE" on a legal situation, as too appease the court's expectation's. "Why would such a 'respectful governmental' officer ask one to do such a thing?" Because they want a commitment regardless of the true outcome of the falsity that would be not brought against themselves, but to the one that was the actor/vindicators of such practices, i.e. "Myself" in the above case. Church, Parliament or governments are all out to please themselves at the cost of the individual. There would have been no ramification's for this particular judge in my case, and for being honest, they imprisoned me for nothing less than honesty for 90 days. I refused to do what the judge had requested.
After the fact, there wasn't one damn thing I could do about this situation, not even a full ethical committee enquiry, they don't want to hear that one of their own are at fault.
Sorry for the long winded explanation, but it was to show the point that it is not just "Priests or Clergy" doing this, it is everywhere in our society, and at the highest levels of local government's.

The priest proposed an answer to the needs of the poor which heretofore neither crown nor political party nor ideology have been able to address. Even the priest's own Jesus threw up his hands at the question of the poor i.e., "They will always be with you." -- which was not a prophecy by Jesus but an indictment of humanity and its unwillingness to convert their way of thinking and embrace unity, Oneness and the responsibilities that come with this 'new' way of thinking and living with the stranger now one's sister, one's brother.
[edit on 21/12/09 by Pellevoisin]

Actually, I do not think this is any kind of New Way of thinking" practices. the problem here is that the population as a whole are only out for one thing, "Self preservation and institutional correctness" cut and dry.
When I was younger, I was enthralled with this set oh "Hot Wheels" car's that was at our local grocer, I took them, I was discovered/caught and that was my first real job, to work for the grocer that I had stolen from until the merchandise was paid for in full, but only because my mother and father brought me back to face the proprietor and confess my wrong doing. I thank my parent's for that because it has always stuck with me and never has happened again. My father's explanation of the event's that took place that day, and let me inform you this was back in the early 1970's.
"Son, when you steal from a store or a friend, you are actually robbing yourself of being a good person, not too mention the tax payer's that work so hard for what they have just so you could steal from somewhere else, 'Nothing is truly free' please don't do this again, not for my benefit, but for yours."

The world remains as it is or even worst if we condone such acts, I understand poverty and I understand needs and wants, but there is nothing more significant in any society than "Good Moral Character" and we have very little of that as of lately in our societal situation.

"What happened to good 'ole Attila the Hun?" LOL
Don't need those kind of people around again, "Do we?"

From reading the thread, I think the general consensus is this; stealing is wrong, but allowing your family to go hungry is, also. Now, I will add that, in today's society, there are many other options available. Stealing would be morally acceptable, only after all the charitable food pantries are depleted, and I doubt this occurs very often.

But, I have a big problem with this priest openly telling people it is OK. What about the kids (and other easily impressionable folks) who have been taught, by their parents, that stealing is wrong and are then told by a priest that its not? Flawed thinking on the part of the priest, in my opinion.

I won't even address the ridiculousnes of the idea that it's somehow alright to steal from the "rich".