Crop Circles are Man Made, and here is why! Part 2

Off the back of Atlasastro's thread Crop Circles are Man Made, and here is why! I would I like to expand on the man made theory further.

I made a comment in THIS THREAD regarding the use of GPS to help assist with the creation of some of these crop circles.

Firstly, let's have a look at the history of GPS:

1993, 8th December
Initial Operational Capability (IOC) is announced. In the same year it was also definitely decided to authorize the world wide civilian use free of charge.

1994, March
The last Block II satellite completes the satellite constellation.

1995, 17th July
Full constellation of 24 GPS satellites in orbit. Full Operational Capability (FOC) is announced.

1996
U.S. President Clinton authorizes SA (Selective Availability) to be phased out to provide civilians worldwide with greater GPS accuracy.

2000, 2nd May 04 UTC
SA (Selective Availability) phased out as a result of the 1996 executive order by U.S. President Clinton. Civilians could now achieve 10 – 15 meters accuracy, compared to the previously available 100 meters accuracy. This was a major win for the GPS consumers (and the GPS industry).

2004, 20th March
Launch of the 50th GPS satellite.

2005, 25th September
Lauch of the first IIR-M GPS satellite. This new type supported the new military M-signal and the second civil signal L2C.

2007, end of year
Five IIR-M GPS satellites in space adding extra navigation signals for both civil and military users.

Source

So from 2000 to present day, GPS technology has improved in leaps and bounds, becoming more available and more accurate.

Now let's look at a similar timeline of crop circles:

1991

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/639de91ff2cb.jpg[/atsimg]

1994

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cf4a716dd14f.jpg[/atsimg]

2000

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5bc7bae2dce8.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/de868fc7eddc.jpg[/atsimg]

2003

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/501a926bcb60.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7a7aad642426.jpg[/atsimg]

2005

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b60b96fe2d33.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8b4ca3ca379b.jpg[/atsimg]

2006

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fb152305bb2a.jpg[/atsimg]

2007

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eecc8a5db592.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7bcbf1a937f6.jpg[/atsimg]

2009

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ec1470dba540.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/37ad350803d4.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/deb7a19cfe51.jpg[/atsimg]

Source

Obviously these are just a few of many but show a trend of increasingly elaborate designs.
Also, it seems to be accepted that before the 90's crop circles were just that, circles or derivatives of circles.

So are they improving as the technology improves?

Or are the aliens improving their crop circle technology at the same rate us us mere humans? If so, why?


[edit on 21/12/09 by Chadwickus]

reply to post by Chadwickus




Awesome dude.

This really answers a question and a point that many people raise in regards to crop circles and their complexity and the assumptions and assertions that people make based on these.

A poster on my thread brings up these points.
post by Alienmindflare
And they are valid observations that raise questions.

of course theres proof that 'some' are man made and 'some' have just made people scratch their heads in amazement because of the size/detail and time they were created,so of course theres a high possibility 'some' are made by aliens.

I see people making these jumps all the time based around the complexity and then using it as some kind of evidence for Aliens creating the circles.

This poster goes on to add:

Crop circles get more precise and bigger every year,lets see whats created next year and the possibilites whether the new ones are man or alien made.Before long man will be spotted if they are doing every single one in the world.

I think you highlight our ability in progressing from simple methods to increasingly more complex methods in solving problems. GPS is great innovation that many people now use on a daily basis.
Why would making or design crop circles be any different.
As you show, and this poster points out,we actually can see a progression of complexity in design and shape.
My question is, how is this an argument FOR Alien origins of crop circles?
When it is just another blindingly obvious habit of humanity.

Top notch Chad.


Complexity in crop circle design does not infer an unseen abstract alien creator. GPS on the other hand can be sited as a means to an end for humans wanting to improve their crop circle making skills.


[edit on 21/12/09 by atlasastro]

reply to post by atlasastro


Thanks mate, it's not a thorough as your thread but I hope it paints a picture of the evolution of GPS along with the evolution of crop circle design.

Some have pointed out that your typical household GPS wouldn't have the accuracy needed to create some of these circles, but a commercially made surveyors GPS unit would, they're designed to plot things down to the centimetre, if they don't someone could dig up something they're not meant to.

So the availability of highly accurate units is quite high, I'm sure there are many second hand units out there for sale, just waiting for a keen crop circle maker to snap up!

Also, to the naysayers that one could not actually use GPS to create something like a crop circle, I introduce you to Marree Man:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7c5e504439d3.jpg[/atsimg]

Hi all. I was quite amazed to read your article… It’s time you were enlightened to the truth of the drawing. A great friend of mine, the late Bardius Golberg is the creator of the Marree Man. I met Bardius in Alice Springs in the late 80s when working … in the Centre. He was into some amazing things as an eccentric sculptor... like the famous dot painting out at Ipolera NT, the 40 foot green cross in the Alice and the like. He was Herculean in his gifts and was well respected by all who took the time to know him. In 1996 he indicated he wanted to do something to leave his mark on the Earth by way of a huge etching in the desert. It was at this time (that) I along with (name withheld) taught him the use of GPS systems. Later, I took off (for) Indonesia, during which time Bardius called to say that he was sponsored $10,000 and given the loan of an old Cat D-6 dozer and had started work on the Marree Man. He later called to say the job was done, but (that he) would remain silent on the issue. He sadly died a few years ago, however I can assure you that Bardius did indeed leave his mark on the world.

www.uforq.asn.au...

Not a bad effort if you ask me!

reply to post by Chadwickus


Dude, you don't even have to buy the surveyors lazer total stations and points that plot out as many as 48 points in a big radius. They reduce the amount of people you need and labour involved in plotting out sites and can be remotely controlled so that you can even plot out your site alone just holding the reflector and controlling the station.
You can just hire them. Easy as.

If you were skilled of course, but we see a progression in design so it is possible that people are learning and updating as they go. Anyone can do an open learning surveyors course.
If you were using tech like this, you could feasibly plot out a site with only one or two people, and then get a team in to do the rest of the flattening after you had your design staked out.
If you look at the Research team links in my post you will see that alot of the teams are
made up of a small team of "researchers" that then have members pay to join to hear "talks" and go on "tours" and so on.

This appears to me to be a good set up.
Your core of "researchers/circle makers" and then the sheep that are fleeced.

Hi Mate,
I have no doubt that many crop circles are man made, some more poorly than others too.

Yet, this cannot be the explanation for all crop circles. Some must be genuine, meaning not man made.

The reason I say this is because many serious researchers spend days and nights camped in the areas these sigils have been appearing in over the years, and in some cases new circles have appeared in the very crops and at the same times that groups of serious researchers have staked out. Sorry no links.

I love theories generally, but a theory is only a theory until it is proven or disproven, or modified in the light of newer observations. So while I do agree in part I cannot agree wholeheaertedly.

Good work nonetheless Chadwickus, S&F for the effort mate.

All well and good, but what you are not pointing out in this thread is Crop Circles did not just begin to appear in 1993 did they? not even close.

Sure there are people who find it hilarious to go out into the middle of the night and try and make a good Circle, but your not even trying to explain the Circles where it would be impossible for groups of people to do it.

Some of the Circles have appeared within a time frame that they would have been seen, appearing close to buildings where people are living, working, even sitting outside close by, but nobody has seen, or heard a thing.

Close to busy roads, people driving past all the time, but no one reports seeing people in the fields, and you cant use the excuse that nobody may have thought it weird, in the British countryside, anything at all looks out of place and people call people, believe me, out in the boonies, people see and know a lot more than they do in cities, and trespassing will usually get you an arse full of rock salt.

No lights, no parked cars, not a hint of anyone having been anywhere near the Circles before they are discovered, in a wet muddy field how is that possible?

I understand where your coming from chadwickus, but as you have said to many other people and pull them up often on the fact, your not presenting all the details, your just presenting what supports your theory.

What you have shown are a bunch of pictures, and some dates of when GPS was available to the public, however because the decision was made in 1993 to allow everyone to use GPS free of charge, it was several years before anyone could develop a unit for public use, and even then they consisted of a little LCD screen and an arrow pointing to wherever you wanted to be, nowhere near what we have today, and even now people are driving off cliffs and hitting obstacles because the system is not perfect, and way back then the cost was astronomical.

Surveying equipment has always been expensive, even today some units run into the Hundreds of thousands of pounds, a little expensive for someone wanting to make a Circle in a field I think.

I accept the fact that you wont ever accept anything different be it regarding UFO's Crop Circles, or anything else for that matter that is not the accepted consensus, that's your call.

But you have missed out so much in relation to this Phenomena, but the fact still remains, some of these Circles would be impossible to create by Man in the alloted time, without leaving a single trace of being there, not a single witness seeing their creation, (yet some seeing their creation by strange lights flying around) not to mention all the anomalies found inside and around the Circles themselves, E M fields, Spheroids, Equipment not working inside the Circles, yet do as soon as they leave the Circles, Aircraft suffering major problems when approaching and flying over, Anomalies in the plants themselves, which no matter what chemicals people claim to have been used, do not work in darkness or within a few hours, and the fact that Crop Circles are recorded going back over Hundreds of years, not just starting in 1993.

And there are many many more facts which could be added.

Here is a depiction of a Crop Circle from 1647, in the form of a wood carving, and supposedly what was witnessed by the Farmer who owned the Crop.



Source

Edited to add picture

[edit on 21/12/2009 by azzllin]

posted in another thread .. so here we go again ... I would like your opinion on this

I really dont have any idea about this, because I dont know how to make crop circles, I never saw someone doing it and really, its easy to say "I did it"

but lets use the so called logic that the op used to answer some guys

1 - crop circles are something used by farmers and group of people to make money
2 - a group of crop circles maker create a website claiming all crop circles are not alien, ending the debate, therefore, making all the people who would buy into it (we) have some doubts about it and not waste money into it


well, if you put 1 + 2 together, I dont think it will get u a 3

some people may say thatthey are showing themselvesfor possible farmers that would like to buy their service, but, ... since its all a conspiracy to make money like you guys said, its much more easy to talk directly to farmers and present the "project" since it will make it rain money literally for them

I really dont know what is going on, I am just using logic

reply to post by Chadwickus



Pretty good explanation for the circles, I'm sure quite a few of the circles

are made they way you presented.

Also a tad bit arrogant for you to say "Crop circles are man made"

without nothing more than a theory , for that's all the GPS idea is

Just a Theory

Explain to me my freind , if you can ,


If CC are manmade ,

Why Are There No Pictures Taken Of A Crop Circle In The Works?

They are always taken pictures of "finished" CC.

Some of the CC in your OP would take days to make.

Edit to add a star and Flag

Even though I may not agree fully with you , I do admire a well

presented and thought out thread


[edit on 21-12-2009 by Sean48]

Do you mean all crop circle are man made?
Are you ignoring all scientific data on crop circle research?

Take one piece of paper and a pencil, try to draw one of these circle by yourself.

imagine how complicated is it try to make something so big and perfect in just few minutes. Can you?

Originally posted by azzllin
Close to busy roads, people driving past all the time, but no one reports seeing people in the fields, and you cant use the excuse that nobody may have thought it weird, in the British countryside, anything at all looks out of place and people call people, believe me, out in the boonies, people see and know a lot more than they do in cities, and trespassing will usually get you an arse full of rock salt.

Rubbish!

You do know it's illegal to use a firearm to ward off trespassers here in the UK don't you?

Please show me some evidence that this goes on all the time as you are implying?


You probably know that I'm passionate (some might say obsessed) about observing meteors and meteor showers. Well, I regularly drive out of the city in which I live, and look for somewhere to observe from. Much of the time I end up in a field, with no permission to be there. I've been doing this year in and year out for a decade, and no one has ever chased me off a field, let alone given me an "arse full or rock-salt"! I usually drive my car into the field, and use torches to see what I'm doing.

If I can drive on to farm land in the un-stealthy manner that I do, and not be seen, I'm sure anyone going about it in a reasonably stealthy way could easily get in and out without being seen. Perhaps not every time, but enough.

Also, being next to a busy road or not means nothing. Have you ever tried to see into a dark field, whilst driving by it at night!? Pray tell... what did you see?

I should also say, I do not like having to trespass, but I have no alternative. It's impossible to plan for meteor showers in advance, since you can never tell where is going to be clear until the last minute. I am however extremely respectful of the land I'm on, and always make sure not to damage anything or leave a mess.

reply to post by azzllin


I'm ignoring the other evidence in this thread because, besides there being so many different theories, some of which you mentioned, there is no consistency in these things. Like, why are some to said to have higher levels of radiation and others not. Or electrical equipment failing at some but not others.

What you have shown are a bunch of pictures, and some dates of when GPS was available to the public, however because the decision was made in 1993 to allow everyone to use GPS free of charge, it was several years before anyone could develop a unit for public use, and even then they consisted of a little LCD screen and an arrow pointing to wherever you wanted to be, nowhere near what we have today, and even now people are driving off cliffs and hitting obstacles because the system is not perfect, and way back then the cost was astronomical.

As my OP suggests, as GPS has become more viable, the CC's have become more elaborate, the trend I see in my OP is an huge increase in complexity from the mid to late 90's to what we see today.
I can almost guarantee you that 2010's CC's will be as equally elaborate as 2009's.

So here is a challenge for you.

Can you show us images of a crop circle from pre-2000's with the complexity of a crop circle post-2000's?

And if not, why?

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by azzllin

 

I'm ignoring the other evidence in this thread because, besides there being so many different theories, some of which you mentioned, there is no consistency in these things. Like, why are some to said to have higher levels of radiation and others not. Or electrical equipment failing at some but not others.

That's simple. It probably just goes with the longstanding belief that some are fake (where no anomalies occur), and some are real.

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.

Also, being next to a busy road or not means nothing. Have you ever tried to see into a dark field, whilst driving by it at night!? Pray tell... what did you see?

I know this isn't necessarily your point but if I can just quote you to make a point, which is -

Have you ever tried to make a crop circle in a field at night in the dark ?

I assume that the people who do create some crop designs do so at night, I would have thought that it would require a number of people to finish them in the time available and, whilst it can be fairly light, would have thought that some artificial light would be required.

Just find it strange that these groups exist in total secrecy - aside from being seen they seem to maintain an oath of silence stronger than the mafia.

Silly humans. Aliens don't come here to make graffiti.

i don't understand....

I normally dont even go to threads that state a phenomenon that has many unexplained aspects to it is "Surely "this" or "that".
If I know for a fact that a subject has many many things to it that no one can explain, and some one starts a thread telling people they know the absolute truth behind all of it....

well, its kinda laughable really
and usually not worth spending time on. and not worth the
energy it takes to try to carry on a conversation with people who think in such a way .

Im sorry to be the bearer of 'debunkers' bad news..

but if anyone can honestly say that every crop circle is made by men from earth..
that person is honestly the one who is delusional.
the delusional ones are not the people who claim "there might actually be something to some of this".

.. that's called critical thinking.


many CC's are man made, yes..
probably even the majority of them.

but all of them?
Seriously?

what?



[edit on 22-12-2009 by Ahmose]



[edit on 22-12-2009 by Ahmose]

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
Silly humans. Aliens don't come here to make graffiti.

Maybe not but the burden of proof is equal for any definitive claim.

reply to post by Ahmose


This thread is an extension to Atlasastro's thread, where he shows that making crop circles is about the money and attention that comes with them.

One of the most prominent arguments of crop circles being alien made is the complexity of the designs.

I've shown that as GPS technology has improved, so has the intricacy of the crop circles.

Seems convenient, no?

absolutely.

it makes it much easier for people to make very complex designs.
Ive watched videos and seen it done, read accounts explaining it, seen the diagrams and the people who create them

but I know I still cant say that they are all man-made. ...
im pretty confident that someare not.

but give you absolutes?
that would be absolutely outrageous. lol
and so it is.

thats like saying..

"ALL ponds and lakes are man-made! because we can make them, and have made thousands, and i know that for a fact, you cant prove nature made any of them."

what?

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Ahmose]

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Ahmose]

Let me just say a little something here, this past August I was awaken by a phone call at 2:30 am, a buddy of mine called and said we "goes", we "goes," He than went on to tell me how he had got us tickets to fly out to the netherlands to the town "goes" and see the worlds largest crop circle. So, I went, I had never seen one, paid the local guy there $150.00 u.s to fly us over in his plane, I can not tell you how much this thing blowed me away, the farmer told us all he had worked late in the evening, no dogs, no sounds, the next morning it was there. This thing was like 530 meters x 450 meters, I just could not explain, nor did I care to attempt to explain how it was done. Aliens or humans, my hat is off to whoever did it, it amazed me and it still amazes me. If you havent seen the butterfly man crop circle, look it up, it will blow you away.

Note: I am still skeptical (lo) but seriously that darn butterfly man blowed me away.

Here it is

reply to post by C.H.U.D.

And everyone who knows mw would tell you that everything you said is my life, and I do know personally some of the Farmers who have had this done to their crops.

Believe what I say when I tell you illegal or not, the feeling is, if they ever catch some idiot ruining their lively hood ever, rock salt would be the very last thing they would have to worry about.

And yes I did used to sneak onto farms to do sky watches with other people, and maybe twice we didn't get caught, when we did get caught, the Farmers started out real pissed, but when we explained, that if anyone knew we where there, we where open to hoaxes, most of the time they understood, but we never entered a field full of crops, we always used the fallow fields, sometimes they would stay with us for a while and chat and see what we did, other times they would tell us stories of things they had seen themselves.

These days however we now go and ask maybe several days before, and have never been told no we couldn't, even had one Farmer bring us fresh eggs last summer in the Morning.

So I am quite aware, and legal or not, as I said an arse full of salt is what they will get these days, hence why we ask, after all 995 of shotguns and rock salt shot are probably owned by Farmers, one of the only group of people in this country who are allowed and do own them.