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The Walking Fox and Lasheic are two members I admire for their tireless patience. They spend much time to formulate a well structured and correct response, even when it is clear, that the other debater won't take his time to read that response and follow the sources. Perhaps they hope, that some interested members will look at these threads and learn from their reasoning.
Originally posted by downisreallyup
This is laughable! Explaining the creator is the easiest thing in the world to do... the very fabric of consistent philosophical thought demands it. You only think it is hard to explain because you make erroneous assumptions and you have not applied the basic principles of natural philosophy.
Let me enlighten you then: the universe is not additive, starting from nothing to which "things"are mystically added from nowhere. That position is based on circular-reasoning, and it also assumes that the very notions of potential and causation are there without actually seeing them as real existences.
The fact is, the universe is subtractive, springing forth as finite expressions of the infinite ocean of potential. It is this infinite ocean of potential which pre-exists all things and gives rise to them. So, everything that has existed, does exist, and can exist, springs forth from this ocean of potential. This ocean contains the blueprint for all THINGS, including every thought, idea, emotion, particle, wave, molecule, object, force, motion, action, and reaction. Because intelligence exists, it MUST have its origins in this ocean of potential, for there is nothing that exists which does not come from this potential.
This infinite potential is what most people refer to as "God." It is a force, but it is not only a force. It is a mind, but it is not only a mind. It is understanding, but it is not only understanding. It is a Him, Her and It, all rolled into one. It is the infinite plurality unified into a single unity. Everything we have ever witnessed and caused, or ever will witness or cause, all come from this original source, for this source is POTENTIAL itself.
To understand this, just think of electricity. First you must have voltage, which is potential, and only then can you have amperes, which is the actual flow of electron current.
Because the "source" contains no boundaries or limits, it is infinite, and therefore is more properly called "all things" since the potential for all things is contained within it. Because it has no boundaries or limits it has no things, no actions, no movements, and therefore, it has no attributes of finiteness. The very nature of infinity is that it has different attributes from the finite.
Time is a feature of the finite since it is based on motion and space. Take away motion, and you will not have time. Take away space so that all things can exist at all locations at once and you will have no motion, which also means no time.
The infinite is actually a realm of complete and absolute thought, where all possible conceptual connections exist in their entirety. This infinity gives rise to the finite as the simultaneous web of conceptual connections stream into space-time, gaining the attributes of finiteness by the conscious selection of a subset of all that is possible.
All motion, and therefore all space-time comes into existence as the result of a conscious intent and decision. All the motions we observe as "primordial", which we classify as the motions of particles, planets, and stars, all had their inception as a result of the universal potential's intent. These motions continue to this day as a long set of chain reactions.
When we who are endowed with the ability to reason, will, and action, make intended choices, we exercise the ability to alter the original creation, thereby making our own creation.
For example, if you pick up a glass and move it to a new location, you have altered the universe. Also, if you look at anything, you have altered the universe, for you have added to the vast list of things which have been observed. One of the main attributes of life is the ability to alter the universe by an act of intended will, and when this happens, we cause creation to occur. Creation is the act of limiting the infinite, of bounding it in a way that is different from what it is now.
This is the fundamental truth that serves as an antecedent to things like biology, physics, psychology, or cosmology.
What I have described here is neither metaphysical nor esoteric, for it is a logical and reasonable explanation of how the physical originates... by introducing waves and flows into the infinite ocean of potential.
See you were right in the beginning I really didn't need "all that".
Look, this has been explained time and time again, on every single thread on evolution ever. I know you've seen these explanations. So I know that you know, somewhere in your brain-meats, the answer to your own question. But just on the off chance that you are terribly forgetful, here it is, one more time.
If you know anything about DNA, you know that there is NO WAY the specific difference between the DNA of humans and the DNA of primates could have happened naturaly. It is impossible in nature, and would have had to been done in a laboratory setting. See, humans have 46 chromosomes (23 pairs) and primates have 48 chromosomes (24 pairs). When humans reproduce, each parent contributes a half of a DNA strand, or 23 chromosomes (not pairs, but single chromosomes waiting for the other parents contribution) There is an anomaly in the human genome, where the second chromosome has another entire chromosome "tacked" on to it, to carry 24 chromosomes in the space of 23. The only way that this could have happened is at one point a mother (primate) with 24 chromosomes had to have an egg removed, and the 2nd-3rd chromosomes fused, AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART, the father ( ? ) had to have a NATURAL 23 chromosome half to contribute. (key word is NATURAL) In a pre-human world full of primates, who had a NATURAL 23 chromosome half to contribute? Plus, how did the 24 Chromosome half from the mother fuse into 23, while still carrying the 24th? The word "laboratory" comes to mind. There is evidence of this in every strand of human DNA on earth. If nature is god, then they are the angels. Humans are a combination of both.
Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
A lot of arguments' against God are that the universe seems so cruel and unjust. But how did you get this idea of just and unjust? A person does not call a line crooked unless he/she has some idea of a straight line. What do you compare this universe with when you call it unjust?
If the whole show is bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak,
how can you, being a part of the show, have such a violent reaction against it?... Of course you could have given up the idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of your own. But if you did that, then your argument against God would collapse too--for the argument depended on you saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please your fancies.
Thus, the very act of trying to prove that God does not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality is senseless - you are forced to assume that one part of reality - namely your idea of justice - is full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning
See you were right in the beginning I really didn't need "all that".
I figure you just enjoy it so,. hey wtf. I said the facts of adaptation
seem to jump track to the theory of evolution. How do you figure I need theory explained in this context? Go back and take a little care what you read before you get all fired up with skyrockets and the
lot. k? I'm talking about the FACT that science should be using the word
adaptation for the facts they are using for evolution.
Is adaptation a theory also?
I think not. So now what say you, if you're on the same page now? I can't wait to see the big elaborate, unesessary,
bombastic verbal parade of unGodly nonsense. The suggestions that
evolution brings with are absolute nonsense. In fact their stupid.
Shapeshifting Apes? lol Apes were Apes, Apes are Apes , Apes will be Apes. I apologise for thinking more of you than that. lol
I think you need to be more informed still, something like you wouldn't make a pimple on a nats azz in his light.
Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
God is a personal being (not an impersonal force). God is immaterial, omnipresent (everywhere), omniscient (all knowing), omnipotent (all powerful), omnibenevolent (all good), immutable (unchanging), sovereign (supreme in authority), free, perfect, and eternal (without beginning or end). As the creator and sustainer of the universe it is understandable that there are some characteristics of God that are beyond our ability to comprehend. For instance God is one divine being in three distinct persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each are equally and eternally the one true God.
God reveals His characteristics to us through 'general,' or 'natural' revelation, and through 'special revelation.' God's general revelation includes what He has revealed to us through His creation in nature and in our God given conscience. Special revelation on the other hand is what God has revealed to us through supernatural means including His Son Jesus Christ, His Spirit, and His Word.
Brief
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth
[edit on 24-12-2009 by randyvs]
Originally posted by truthseeker84
If you know anything about DNA, you know that there is NO WAY the specific difference between the DNA of humans and the DNA of primates could have happened naturaly. It is impossible in nature, and would have had to been done in a laboratory setting. See, humans have 46 chromosomes (23 pairs) and primates have 48 chromosomes (24 pairs). When humans reproduce, each parent contributes a half of a DNA strand, or 23 chromosomes (not pairs, but single chromosomes waiting for the other parents contribution) There is an anomaly in the human genome, where the second chromosome has another entire chromosome "tacked" on to it, to carry 24 chromosomes in the space of 23. The only way that this could have happened is at one point a mother (primate) with 24 chromosomes had to have an egg removed, and the 2nd-3rd chromosomes fused, AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART, the father ( ? ) had to have a NATURAL 23 chromosome half to contribute. (key word is NATURAL) In a pre-human world full of primates, who had a NATURAL 23 chromosome half to contribute? Plus, how did the 24 Chromosome half from the mother fuse into 23, while still carrying the 24th? The word "laboratory" comes to mind. There is evidence of this in every strand of human DNA on earth. If nature is god, then they are the angels. Humans are a combination of both.
I saw this from a poster on godlikeproductions, I thought it was interesting.
Now I don't know much about evolution and the science behind it, but can anyone knowledgeable in this area of study tell me if this is true?
If it is wrong, then please do explain why, because I'm fascinated by it. If what this poster says is true, then how the hell did we go from Ape to Man?
Source: I have visited Nibiru.
peace!
Originally posted by Pauligirl
Originally posted by downisreallyup
One thing you would have a hard time explaining is ATP Synthase...
The opposing view.
www.millerandlevine.com...
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
Now since you were very obviously not paying attention, evolution does not talk about shapeshifting apes. Or shapeshifting anything. I've already explained this to you. Maybe you should go back and see
You really don't realize how silly all that gobbledegook sounds to anyone who doesn't already agree with you, do
Originally posted by Chainmaker
You have posted some really great examples of natural selection AKA environmental adaptation AKA micro-evolution.
But I'm sure you believe that somehow proves that amphibians developed into reptiles and dinosaurs into birds, which it certainly does not.
You have not posted any proof of macro-evolution AKA the development of any new irreducibly complex structure.
Those viruses remained viruses, and the rabbits remained rabbits.
Macro-evolution is a theory full of holes, and spontaneous biogenesis is nothing but the atheist/agnostic's completely made up doctrine that affirms his spiritual denial.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Originally posted by davesidious
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurius.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
If there is no God, then this entire planet doesn't matter a twit...
Originally posted by randyvs
Ok Fox you want to cut through the crap just answer two questions.
With the most simplistic answers you can think of.
Did men evolve from Apes?
Does God Exist?
Wrong! It's just that I don't care.I Know exactly how it sounds. It sounds about the same as one
species evolving into another.
I just choose to say it anyway, because based on what I've seen in life,
there is no more powerful name in the universe, than Jesus Christ.
You can't change the things I've seen with my own eyes.
Things you wouldn't believe if I straight up told you.
I won't offer the normal things Christians offer people like you because I don't consider myself part of the norm.
Wheather that be good or bad? I'm positive I will find out.
I would like to relate this to you.
In all your so many and extensive years of experience in life, (your tone
being rather suggestive of them not being excessive) I would give a
fortune, to be there to see the look on your face, the moment you discover
what so many have been telling you is true.
I would love to be able to compliment your amazing intelligence like
alot of the candyazzes on this site have.
Every time I thought to I could not.
Here's why.
According to your way of thinking, The absolute systematic logic that exists throughout the universe must be the result of a constent randomness. I have seen randomness and it can not ever be constent.
Logic, systems, and information encoded in DNA , can only be the result
of a supreme intelligence( being ).
Besides that, your head is already way to gigantic.
To quote Abraham Lincoln
" I can look around this world and see why so many would say, there is
no God. What I can not conceive is how anyone can look into the heavens
and make the same claim".
[edit on 4-1-2010 by randyvs]
reply to post by TheWalkingFox
Clearly you don't know much about DNA, do you? The large bulk of DNA is "filler" - it does nothing, wasted space