some new good info about f-22 :))

www.aviationnow.com.../05244wna.xml

Great find!

While these conversations, many of them informal, didn't touch on "even one-third of its classified capabilities," according to one pilot, they included the ability to hunt down and destroy cruise missiles well behind enemy lines, the introduction of a new missile that allows the head-on attack and destruction of stealthy enemy missiles, a tailless bomber derivative design, a planned electronic attack capability so powerful that it actually damages enemy electronics, and modifications that would allow the aircraft's electronic package to invade enemy computer networks.

This is sweet - we can now INVADE enemy computer networks.... Facing a nuclear war? just point the enemies missles at it's own cities! You don't even look bad to the UN! It's kind of like grabing someones arm, making them punch thereselves and saying "stop hitting yourself!"

trowing a "trojan horse" in the war theatre ?!
could it be possible pilot gets warning like this :

warning !
your boardcomputers are contaminated with a virus
eject ! eject !

macafee guys what are you waiting for to make a USAFsuperdat.exe file ?

Heh, seems the AF has been chillin with some hackers

a planned electronic attack capability so powerful that it actually damages enemy electronics

Could this be some kind of EMP weapon? I can't think of another way to do this. And if the attack is so powerfull, would it be a "directed" attack, or simply attack anything within a given sphere of the aircraft?

heh, i wonder what mach fights would be like, the enemy would be crashing before it even sees the missle

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Great find!

This is sweet - we can now INVADE enemy computer networks.... Facing a nuclear war? just point the enemies missles at it's own cities! You don't even look bad to the UN! It's kind of like grabing someones arm, making them punch thereselves and saying "stop hitting yourself!"

hehe )yeah ) - that's XXI century ))

[Edited on 26-5-2004 by gattaca]

Originally posted by American Mad Man
This is sweet - we can now INVADE enemy computer networks.... Facing a nuclear war? just point the enemies missles at it's own cities! You don't even look bad to the UN! It's kind of like grabing someones arm, making them punch thereselves and saying "stop hitting yourself!"

I don't think you can turn enemys ICBMs back. They are inertially guided so they don't depend on external sensors, and so the beam has not big chance to damage its guiding mechanism. The microvave or EMP beam will probably just jamm some devices (in case they are not shielded) although jamming S-300 air defense or incoming misile would be also nice.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

a planned electronic attack capability so powerful that it actually damages enemy electronics

Could this be some kind of EMP weapon? I can't think of another way to do this. And if the attack is so powerfull, would it be a "directed" attack, or simply attack anything within a given sphere of the aircraft?

This is nothing new,, remeber the German fighters that were brought down because they flew to close to a active radio transmitter that damaged thier electronics. The navy's Ageis system can pump out 6 million watts of RF energy down a very narrow bean. At close range its going to do some damage to electronics and maybe even cook the pilot in the cockpit. However, they would have to be pretty close for that to happen. It will be interesting to see if the AF has achieved a power / transmission breakthrough for the F-22. Also wont the electronic attack capabilites give away the planes position?

all of this tech that the raptor has it makes it the best fighter in the wrld not only because of the tech but everything about it and even if it costs 130M its still worth the cost.

I'm impressed, the F/A-22 Raptor seems to be getting more advanced by the day. Now, let's see if all this # works as advertized. The proof isn't on paper, it in some distante sky when you face another airplane with missiles that is shooting at you.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

"Many of the senior leaders saw the utility of the F-117, but when it was time to use it in combat I had some doubts" ~General Chuck Horner, Commander of Air Operations in the Gulf War, 1991

Originally posted by American Mad Man
This is sweet - we can now INVADE enemy computer networks.... Facing a nuclear war? just point the enemies missles at it's own cities! You don't even look bad to the UN! It's kind of like grabing someones arm, making them punch thereselves and saying "stop hitting yourself!"

This is given that the network is not encrypted. Several hackers encrypt their entire hard drive triple blowfish. If enemies did so, with their own algorithm I might add, then it would be impossible for the F-22 to just dive in and manipulate enemy files.

trowing a "trojan horse" in the war theatre ?!
could it be possible pilot gets warning like this :

warning !
your boardcomputers are contaminated with a virus
eject ! eject !

macafee guys what are you waiting for to make a USAFsuperdat.exe file ?

Right now, you can't even invade Windows XP (which some consider a very insecure system though that's far from the truth as Linux itself is also insecure just not exploited often) without social engineering tactics. NetBIOS has long been patched. I doubt enemy governments use Windows XP not to mention that only few enemy government computers have internet access since the other computers are linked only by network.

Trojans will also be useless in the fact that you need one person to control per computer you infect.

quote:
a planned electronic attack capability so powerful that it actually damages enemy electronics


Could this be some kind of EMP weapon? I can't think of another way to do this. And if the attack is so powerfull, would it be a "directed" attack, or simply attack anything within a given sphere of the aircraft?

It's all in the name :

The Thor jamming system is to be active in 2008.

Thor is a Norse thunder god. Thunder would relate to electricity. Thus, this jamming system has to be EMP following that logic.

imagine this on a ground based system!! unpenitrable airspace!!

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by American Mad Man

a planned electronic attack capability so powerful that it actually damages enemy electronics

Could this be some kind of EMP weapon? I can't think of another way to do this. And if the attack is so powerfull, would it be a "directed" attack, or simply attack anything within a given sphere of the aircraft?

This is nothing new,, remeber the German fighters that were brought down because they flew to close to a active radio transmitter that damaged thier electronics. The navy's Ageis system can pump out 6 million watts of RF energy down a very narrow bean. At close range its going to do some damage to electronics and maybe even cook the pilot in the cockpit. However, they would have to be pretty close for that to happen. It will be interesting to see if the AF has achieved a power / transmission breakthrough for the F-22. Also wont the electronic attack capabilites give away the planes position?

even the EA-6B can damage electronics with it's ECM capabilities, though they make it sound like it's a new thing, so maybe they have made some kind of breakthrough that will allow it to do alot better

This would be a direct beam weapon.

Originally posted by longbow

Originally posted by American Mad Man
This is sweet - we can now INVADE enemy computer networks.... Facing a nuclear war? just point the enemies missles at it's own cities! You don't even look bad to the UN! It's kind of like grabing someones arm, making them punch thereselves and saying "stop hitting yourself!"

I don't think you can turn enemys ICBMs back

. They are inertially guided so they don't depend on external sensors, and so the beam has not big chance to damage its guiding mechanism. The microvave or EMP beam will probably just jamm some devices (in case they are not shielded) although jamming S-300 air defense or incoming misile would be also nice.

ICBM's once fired cannot be called back. The idea is to prevent the enemy from duplicating self destruct signals and exploding them over your own territory. Im not sure if the are hardened aginst EMP. However, it makes sence that they would be so a first strike with an EMP airburst over the country can't knock out all of our missiles.

Hi all. First post so not trying to flame anyone. the F-22 is without doubt one hell of a plane but come on, isn't this forum about denying ignorance? The willingness of some people to believe everything they read in the press is worrying.

"the ability to hunt down and destroy cruise missiles well behind enemy lines"

Interesting capabilities, but seeing as cruise missiles are generally 'relatively' short ranged systems (they don't fly 12,000 km's) any nation with the ability to launch a serious cruise threat isn't going to do it "deep behind their own lines"!

And it's all well and good being able to hack into enemy networks but this involves sending out elecronic signals genrerally, which kind of negates the point of having this wonderful stealth aircraft. Can't think of a better way of advertising your position myself. (before anyone starts moaning about this it is a simple fact, data being transmitted is traceable no matter what medium you use, it is a homing beacon for AA assets). And lets be fair, any enemy that warrants this kind of hacking rather than a couple of JDAMS down the chimney of their C4I facilities, is generally going to be pretty well placed to give a similar nasty surprise back.

As I said the F-22 is a fantastic aircraft, but lets not get caught up in this fantasy world without considering the real world implications of these claims. This wonderful e-warfare capability for example would be just as useful on a Lancaster bomber! It's the supposed tech that is the story here not the plane in this instance surely?

Anyway I'm sure the F-22 will kick large portions of arse when it gets into service, lets just keep a sense of perspective with these claims about the "unbeatable Raptor". Nothing is unbeatable, and anyone arguing otherwise is just showing their own ignorance of history.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by longbow

Originally posted by American Mad Man
This is sweet - we can now INVADE enemy computer networks.... Facing a nuclear war? just point the enemies missles at it's own cities! You don't even look bad to the UN! It's kind of like grabing someones arm, making them punch thereselves and saying "stop hitting yourself!"

I don't think you can turn enemys ICBMs back

. They are inertially guided so they don't depend on external sensors, and so the beam has not big chance to damage its guiding mechanism. The microvave or EMP beam will probably just jamm some devices (in case they are not shielded) although jamming S-300 air defense or incoming misile would be also nice.

ICBM's once fired cannot be called back. The idea is to prevent the enemy from duplicating self destruct signals and exploding them over your own territory. Im not sure if the are hardened aginst EMP. However, it makes sence that they would be so a first strike with an EMP airburst over the country can't knock out all of our missiles.

All American ICBMs are sheilded "very well" against EMP effects....

Well first off its is true that most of this isn't exactly brand new. But I don't think all of this has ever been cramed onto one fighter. If the F-22 can do directed EMP attacks it may be possible to take down an ICBM. Also another way to get an ICBM to "self destruct" is not to hit a self destruct command but to tell it that its reached its target. As for hacking on to computers this thing rivals supercomputers in prossecing power etc. so I doubt thats out of the question. As for taking down cruise missles the Navys been doing that for ages with the F-14/Phoenix missle system from over a hundred miles away. If we were to hit N. Korea or China for what ever reason this would be the perfect tool for the job.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Well first off its is true that most of this isn't exactly brand new.
. If the F-22 can do directed EMP attacks it may be possible to take down an ICBM. Also another way to get an ICBM to "self destruct" is not to hit a self destruct command but to tell it that its reached its target

ICBM's once fired are really on thier own. The only time they self destruct is when one is fitted with a range safety package when they are being tested for the exact reason that they don't want a 12 year old with a PC to key in a self destruct code I do not know enough about the triggers to say one way or the other if they could be set off via remote. I would have to think and hope that the manufacturers would take that into account and guard aginst it.

The electronically steered radar array on the F-22 can attack/jam pinpoint targets but not blanket an area like an EA-6B can. The cruise missile role is aimed at the new gneration of stealthy cruise missiles that are comming up.