When did they ID AA77's parts?

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posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


What exactly are you looking for? The plane parts #'s? Why would that ever satsify you? Anybody can produce reports with matching numbers on them.

Why not just come out and say it - you know flight AA77 crashed into the Pentagon, but you are having a lot more fun pretending it didn't. Normally nobody would care, its like the creationist who do not want to publically accept the overwhelming scientific evidence of evolution because they are personally invested in the promotion or promulgation of their own rhetoric. But creationist really don't bother too many people. Your little dogma, however, would promote the idea that hundreds if not thousands of good decent people conspired to kill thousands of their fellow Americans- and that is not harmless.




posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by 767doctor
I don't like the word proof; it's too absolute.


Even in a murder? Over 3000 Americans were killed that day. OJ Simpspons walked because the only thing that was missing was absolute proof. We had DNA, fingerprints, witnesses, and on and on and on but he go off because there was no absolute proof. Iraq and Afghanistan did not get off so easily and it is ok with you that we do need PROOF?

Do you accept that there is, at the very least, some evidence that AA77 may have hit the Pentagon?
Like what?


Do you accept that there is some evidence of aircraft parts?


I would be more than happy to. Show me on airplane part and tell me how you know what plane it came from and we can roll with that all day long.


RADES radar data from multiple sources? FDR data which depicts the final 40 hours of AA77's flight history?

Well, What can I say about the radar and FDR except that they are both collections of data and I am not sure why either side thinks that either one is some holy grail. Basically this is assuming that the perpetrator could not fake data. It just brings me back to the fact that I have not seen any convincing evidence myself. That is what you asked, right?

DNA evidence of passengers and crew who boarded AA77?
And the DNA proves...? That people with that DNA one existed. So far there is not one credible story of how the DNA survived, its chain of custody, why there are two passenger manifests and even though they said the first one was 100 percent of the identified people minus ONE, suddenly that became the first and only Airline supplied VICTIM SEATING LIST. So they identified people that were not on the plane as well as managed to get the DNA to match people they had no reference DNA or id for. The FBI has admitted they have not really identified all of the terrorists but some of those terrorists that were NOT identified were 'identified' in this supposed crash, so.....the DNA does not impress me much. Maybe if you can get the coroner to go back and change his very clear statement that there was NOTHING to be collected. Get the FBI to match their story with the OS their bosses kept touting as well as explain to me how the same plane that made it through all those walls, and THEN, vaporized managed to spit out the DNA. Same problem you have in NYC. The DNA only proves that the letter agency that dropped of this DNA had some place to go get it. If that plane did not crash into the Pentagon, then they had a pretty ready source of DNA to pretend that it did - minus the terrorists.

Now just imagine, if they had all the DNA from the people on that plane but not the terrorists because they did not actually exists, then you might think they would claim to ID the 5 terrorists and then show a list with no muslim names in any of the seats. Then claim it was a bad list, here is the new one. Then claim that they did not have reference DNA so they might be wrong. Oh wait, that is what happened as I just explained.

100+ eyewitness accounts of the crash?


Ahh now I see the problem. Do you want me to admit it is possible AA77 hit the Pentagon or do you want me to admit there is some evidence that it happened. I can admit it is possible that did happen. As far as evidence that it happened? Well, you tell me. You just claimed there were over 100 witnesses to this crash. You offered a link. You are either new here or been somewhere else. This is one of my favorites.

Please go through your supplied list of 100s of people that saw the crash. Please pull out 100 that actually saw the crash. Can you find fifty? How about 40? I was also told scores so I will not challenge you to more than two score. This doe not mean people that say it crashed but could not have seen it happen from where they were. This does not mean people that say it crashed because they assume that is what happened AFTER they could no longer actually see it. This means people that actually saw the crash. Can you give me 40?




If you accept that there is some evidence, we can go on. If not, there is no point in continuing further.


That is the problem with your premise. You want me to just accept that there is evidence. How about show me real evidence. Not lists that are not actually lists of what they claim to be. This nonsense about DNA is just that. I guess it make sense to think that the LAPD is planting DNA all over murder scenes but the government has not yet figured out how to kill people, take DNA samples, and then drop them at the lab? Was anyone at the lab there to collect the DNA. Who know the chain of custody?

If you want to have the RADAR and FDR, go for it. No witnesses, no real DNA EVIDENCE, no identified plane parts, no anything at all but radar and FDR data. The only thing they are proof of is that you have been made to think you have proof.

Show me any DNA that was collected on the scene. What was it from? How was it collected? The plane being identified as the correct plane, or as a plane at all. Where is any of that? OH, you have data. You have data that is even still being argued about at this very point so how much should I be accepting that? With the work that I do, I cannot imagine how anyone thinks any collection of data can not be faked. You cannot fake DNA. You cannot fake plane parts. Just turn up some at the crash scene and be over with it.


B

ack to the parts ID'ing for a moment. Do you agree that if such "positive ID" is standard NTSB practice, that there will be evidence available on the internet to determine as much?


I can concede that is possible, sure. Do you agree that a retired Airforce Colonel who is questioning why it did not happen has a little more credibility than someone on an internet forum that just says they are a mechanic?

I can admit that the OS is possible. What I can not do is just ACCEPT that there is evidence just because some people think it is good enough. If it is not good enough for our justice system when it comes to small scale murders, it is not good enough for our justice system at all.

You have to understand that it is hard for me to take a post like yours and get all turned around on this evidence when you try the same trick that has been pulled a dozen times in the last month of publishing a list of people that DID NOT WITNESS THE ACTUAL CRASH and pushing it off as a list of hundreds of people that saw the crash. Even if they did, I am not sure how that identifies it as AA77 since not one of them claims to be able to have done that no matter what little they seem to have seen.

You said it yourself, you do not like 'proof' because it is too absolute. I do not like our evil government killing us off to advance its greedy agendas. When a bunch of people get killed for any reason, and then more Americans are sent to die because of it, I think that 'proof' is just fine to demand.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Lillydale
 


What exactly are you looking for? The plane parts #'s? Why would that ever satsify you? Anybody can produce reports with matching numbers on them.


and yet, they haven't. The government could have faked it in the evidence right? Instead they just thought that if they made it look like AA77 crashed there and fooled just enough people - these people would go out and proclaim it is the gospel truth because they know it is true because......


Why not just come out and say it - you know flight AA77 crashed into the Pentagon, but you are having a lot more fun pretending it didn't.


Why, are you having fun? I can say that if you like, but it would be a lie. If that is what you think that is fine.


Normally nobody would care, its like the creationist who do not want to publically accept the overwhelming scientific evidence of evolution because they are personally invested in the promotion or promulgation of their own rhetoric.


Interesting thing to say. Can you please explain how I am personally invested in the promotion of anything related to 9/11?


But creationist really don't bother too many people. Your little dogma, however, would promote the idea that hundreds if not thousands of good decent people conspired to kill thousands of their fellow Americans- and that is not harmless.


Obviously you know NOTHING about religion as this CREATION DOGMA has been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands throughout history.
Thank you for that warm fresh blast of ignorance.

Who is it my Dogma is killing again?

It seems your dogma is killing Iraquis, Afghans, and American soldiers.

Mine is pissing people on an internet forum off.

Hmmm. Creationists and their crusades, inquisitions, manifest destiny, witch trials, holy wars, etc.

OSers with two wars and THOUSANDS from all over the world DEAD.

Me irritating you. I am more dangerous am I? How sad. At first I thought you were worth responding to but this is some really sad stuff here.

Yes I do promote the idea that our own government was willing to kill its own people to go to war. It has happened before so why should it be so crazy to think it would happen again.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


Exactly how is the "creationist" dogma responsible for hundreds of thousands throughout history when it is a recent phenom, a reaction to a legal decision in the 20th century to teach only evolution in schools. Scopes is only a few decades old. But I should chalk that up to just more unfounded rhetoric to avoid the obvious.

You have basically settled your own argument by noting that the government does not see it as necessary to do a matching parts investigation as they and the rest of the world are satisfied that it was Flight AA77 that did strike the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001. The totality of the evidence supports that fact. You may have also noted that there is not a mountain of data available from the government regarding weather conditions that day in Washington. Why? Because, like mechanical failure, it to was deemed as not being a factor in the crash and therefore the data was not gathered, just like the parts identification. But there is mountains of weather data available from other crashes where weather is thought to be a factor in the crash.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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A piece of AA77 w/ serial number:


"The part in question is the power supply for the emergency lights. ...I assure you it was Flight 77, AA 757 5BP."
-AMTMAN
forums.randi.org...

You want to read about the decision on recording Serial Numbers & finding the FDRs, type "flight data recorder" into "search inside", and read the story.
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261422305&sr=1-1#reader_B002NPCSXM

And even tho the Angry Young Boys will still be dissatisfied, here is mountain of evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon.
wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

Tom

[edit on 21-12-2009 by thomk]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Long story short:

NTSB does not, and never has, used serial numbers of parts to identify planes. There are other, much more reliable methods, of determining the identity of any crashed plane.

Specifically: By tracking on radar & by FDR data.

There was precisely zero doubt about AA77. There was no need to RECORD the S/N data. There was apparently lots of pieces and parts that had S/Ns on them. Just like the part above.

There were simply not recorded because nothing failed on the plane so there was no need for an investigation of "what broke?"

Your contention that "nobody knows what plane it was because nobody has matched up serial numbers of parts" simply shows that you have a limited knowledge of how they identify the wreckage.

Radar tracking data confirms, with zero doubt, that this was AA77.
FDR data confirms, with zero doubt, that this was AA77
DNA evidence confirms, with zero doubt, that this was AA77.
Personal effects found at the scene confirm, with zero doubt, that this was AA77.


Tom


[edit on 21-12-2009 by thomk]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Lillydale
 


Exactly how is the "creationist" dogma responsible for hundreds of thousands throughout history when it is a recent phenom, a reaction to a legal decision in the 20th century to teach only evolution in schools. Scopes is only a few decades old. But I should chalk that up to just more unfounded rhetoric to avoid the obvious.


Apparently you are confused as to the definition of either dogma or creationist as creationist dogma has existed for a few thousand years.


You have basically settled your own argument by noting that the government does not see it as necessary to do a matching parts investigation as they and the rest of the world are satisfied that it was Flight AA77 that did strike the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001. The totality of the evidence supports that fact


What evidence?????? Just saying this over and over again does very little to help. I have asked for this MOUNTAIN of evidence many many many times and have you to see it.


You may have also noted that there is not a mountain of data available from the government regarding weather conditions that day in Washington. Why? Because, like mechanical failure, it to was deemed as not being a factor in the crash and therefore the data was not gathered, just like the parts identification. But there is mountains of weather data available from other crashes where weather is thought to be a factor in the crash.


So before it was known to be a terrorist attack, the only two choices we had were mechanical failure or weather? Maybe you need to try thinking a little bit harder.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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Apparently you are confused as to the definition of either dogma or creationist as creationist dogma has existed for a few thousand years.


I think you are confusing modern creationism with religion in general.


What evidence?????? Just saying this over and over again does very little to help. I have asked for this MOUNTAIN of evidence many many many times and have you to see it


Sorry, if you don't know what is out there by now as to evidence, then you really have no business doubting what other people say.


So before it was known to be a terrorist attack, the only two choices we had were mechanical failure or weather? Maybe you need to try thinking a little bit harder.


Actually, there are only a few choices when it comes to plane crashes and general causes. Weather, mechanical failure, operational failure (mid air collision casued by control misdirection), human performance and criminal activity or any combination thereof. In this case, as the plane was reported hijacked by the passengers and two other hijacked planes were already used as weapons than weather, mechanical failure and operational failure were quickly ruled out.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Even in a murder? Over 3000 Americans were killed that day. OJ Simpspons walked because the only thing that was missing was absolute proof. We had DNA, fingerprints, witnesses, and on and on and on but he go off because there was no absolute proof. Iraq and Afghanistan did not get off so easily and it is ok with you that we do need PROOF?


'Appeal to Emotion' fallacy noted. Lily, I wasn't suggesting there isn't sufficient proof of what you call "the OS"; I was trying to get you acknowledge that there is evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon. I'm not going to try to convince you to that end - I'm not out to prove anything to you. I just want to understand where you are coming from and what kind of standard of evidence you adhere to.



I would be more than happy to. Show me on airplane part and tell me how you know what plane it came from and we can roll with that all day long.



Thats asking a bit much, don't you think? But, to answer: There is a very good picture of a wheel assembly in the wreckage which perfectly matches that of a typical 757 main landing gear wheel.

That's one example. But like I said, it's unreasonable to demand that every scrap be explained.


Well, What can I say about the radar and FDR except that they are both collections of data and I am not sure why either side thinks that either one is some holy grail. Basically this is assuming that the perpetrator could not fake data. It just brings me back to the fact that I have not seen any convincing evidence myself. That is what you asked, right?


Considering how difficult it would be to fake FDR and radar data from multiple sites, I feel this is very strong evidence. PFT is spending every waking moment trying to prove the data is fake and they are making themselves look stupid in the process(see the latest soap opera involving Turbofan outing Rob as a fraudster).



And the DNA proves...? That people with that DNA one existed. So far there is not one credible story of how the DNA survived, its chain of custody, why there are two passenger manifests and even though they said the first one was 100 percent of the identified people minus ONE, suddenly that became the first and only Airline supplied VICTIM SEATING LIST. So they identified people that were not on the plane as well as managed to get the DNA to match people they had no reference DNA or id for. The FBI has admitted they have not really identified all of the terrorists but some of those terrorists that were NOT identified were 'identified' in this supposed crash, so.....the DNA does not impress me much. Maybe if you can get the coroner to go back and change his very clear statement that there was NOTHING to be collected. Get the FBI to match their story with the OS their bosses kept touting as well as explain to me how the same plane that made it through all those walls, and THEN, vaporized managed to spit out the DNA. Same problem you have in NYC. The DNA only proves that the letter agency that dropped of this DNA had some place to go get it. If that plane did not crash into the Pentagon, then they had a pretty ready source of DNA to pretend that it did - minus the terrorists.


You are not privy to the chain of custody of every scrap of DNA, but there are court cases pending that will rely on that chain of custody. Without slandering some very respected professionals, you'd have a hard time making a case that every bit was planted or outright fabricated.

Your poisoning the well and handwaving aside, I feel that the DNA, too, is strong evidence. Those people are missing and their last whereabouts were flight 77. Flight 77 went off radar in the area of the Pentagon and the passenger DNA was found there. Without solid evidence that there is a sloppy chain of custody for every single sample, or direct evidence that the DNA was planted - you can't say that "the DNA evidence means nothing".

You made some claims I haven't heard before and I want to get to them, but right now I don't want to derail this topic. One of them is the claim that the had no reference to ID hijackers DNA(ie no relative samples). There are other ways(a hair in a rental car), don't you watch CSI!


Ahh now I see the problem. Do you want me to admit it is possible AA77 hit the Pentagon or do you want me to admit there is some evidence that it happened. I can admit it is possible that did happen. As far as evidence that it happened? Well, you tell me. You just claimed there were over 100 witnesses to this crash. You offered a link. You are either new here or been somewhere else. This is one of my favorites.

Please go through your supplied list of 100s of people that saw the crash. Please pull out 100 that actually saw the crash. Can you find fifty? How about 40? I was also told scores so I will not challenge you to more than two score. This doe not mean people that say it crashed but could not have seen it happen from where they were. This does not mean people that say it crashed because they assume that is what happened AFTER they could no longer actually see it. This means people that actually saw the crash. Can you give me 40?



You know the saying: "If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it...."

Eyewitness testimony is the lowest form of evidence in the courts. However, in this case, we have many people on record who say a jet impacted the Pentagon. And yes, I've already become aware that you will dismiss any account that does include the word "impact". I have my ideas why that is the case, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just overly skeptical; which is not a good thing(google: solipsism).

But no one reported a missile or a flyover, isn't that significant?

I'm not gonna whack-a-mole with you in regard to each eyewitness accounts. And I don't know why you are being so pedantic about the claim of "scores" of impact eyewitnesses; there are numerous, so lets leave it at that.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by thomk
A piece of AA77 w/ serial number:


"The part in question is the power supply for the emergency lights. ...I assure you it was Flight 77, AA 757 5BP."
-AMTMAN
forums.randi.org...

You want to read about the decision on recording Serial Numbers & finding the FDRs, type "flight data recorder" into "search inside", and read the story.
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261422305&sr=1-1#reader_B002NPCSXM

And even tho the Angry Young Boys will still be dissatisfied, here is mountain of evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon.
wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

Tom

[edit on 21-12-2009 by thomk]


As I have mentioned before, but to no avail, every inch of ground was covered and every peice of debris was cataloged by the FBI, military, and a myraid of other law enforcement agengies. The North Parking lot was set up as an area where all of the Pentagon debris was taken to where it was sifted through by hundreds of regular soldiers. Their personal accounts have been in the public domain for over a year now. Everything they recovered was cataloged and photographed. Yet some ignore any evidence that does not support their belief system.

The image you just posted is one I scanned and posted almost two years ago. It comes from the same online library of online information as the CMH eyewitnesses. Some people just need to keep up with the times and stop repeating 'disinfo' being pumped out by some organizations. The assertion that serial numbers were not obtained is simply false. We will simply have to wait until the prosecutions are over and the files released to know exactly what identifiable parts were recovered.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 04:40 AM
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Ran out of room in that post but I just wanted to say something else in response to this:




That is the problem with your premise. You want me to just accept that there is evidence. How about show me real evidence. Not lists that are not actually lists of what they claim to be. This nonsense about DNA is just that. I guess it make sense to think that the LAPD is planting DNA all over murder scenes but the government has not yet figured out how to kill people, take DNA samples, and then drop them at the lab? Was anyone at the lab there to collect the DNA. Who know the chain of custody?



I think your standard of evidence is rather unusual and your skepticism is unhealthy - and I say that as a skeptic! You claim the DNA is nonsense but you've produced no solid evidence that there is anything wrong with the DNA itself, or how it was collected. Don't you see a problem with that logic? You're going about this problem backwards.




Show me any DNA that was collected on the scene. What was it from? How was it collected? The plane being identified as the correct plane, or as a plane at all. Where is any of that? OH, you have data. You have data that is even still being argued about at this very point so how much should I be accepting that? With the work that I do, I cannot imagine how anyone thinks any collection of data can not be faked. You cannot fake DNA. You cannot fake plane parts. Just turn up some at the crash scene and be over with it.


Lily, you can use that exact same line of arguments to question any event in human history. Don't you see that? You can't apply this sort of skepticism(I hate using that word here) to everything that you don't personally witness, you'll get nowhere fast. Just because you aren't privy to the details behind every scrap of evidence, you don't need to assume its all fake. The convergence of evidence points to AA77 impacting the Pentagon. If you have solid evidence to the contrary(or an alternative theory we can test), lets hear it. If you want further evidence that it did impact, I'd suggest an FOIA request for any evidence, including chain of custody, that you are having doubts about.




I can admit that the OS is possible. What I can not do is just ACCEPT that there is evidence just because some people think it is good enough. If it is not good enough for our justice system when it comes to small scale murders, it is not good enough for our justice system at all.



Like I have been saying. Everyone has a different standard of evidence; that's the problem the courts have had and will continue to have. You say I shouldn't trust the DNA and eyewitness evidence, but you've given me no solid reason not to(other than "it can be faked").


[edit on 22-12-2009 by 767doctor]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by iSunTzu
On September 11, 2001 when the passengers of Flight 77 were murdered.

strawman (1)


All the news agencies got it right.

appeal to authority (2)


If you have evidence to the contrary you can sue them for telling lies.

appeal to motive (3)


It has been 8 years did you miss the news on September 11th 2001?

ad hominem (4)


No one has evidence to the contrary yet. Good luck

bare assertion (5)



Originally posted by iSunTzu
reply to post by GhostR1der
 

Where is the evidence to prove it is not Flight 77?

demanding negative proof (6)


What is stopping someone from exposing the Flight 77 hoax? facts and evidence; lol.
The only proof offered the plane parts are not Flight 77 is talk and zero substance.
Bare assertions (7)


No one has or will prove the government is lying.

strawman (8)


No one will take their proof (vaporware so to speak), write a paper and get a Pulitzer Prize.

appeal to ridicule (9)


Woodward and Bernstein did it for the Post with Watergate. Woodward and Bernstein exposed Watergate and forced the President to resign. Why can't someone do it for real instead of spreading wild speculation and fantasy?

shifting goalposts (10)


8 years is enough time to earn a PhD on 911 but people claiming 77 is not identified are only repeating false information.

appeal to ridicule (11)


Flight 77 was identified on 911. No one in the world has proved different. That requires evidence and it is not there.

demanding negative proof (12)


-witnesses all verify 77 impacted the Pentagon.

bare assertion(13)


Why do people perpetrate this fraud that 77 is not the plane?

straw man (14)



Is capitalism the motivator for the conspiracy theory industry? Selling books, DVDs, and TV shows to the masses that are willing to accept hearsay, false information and wild fantasies keep the 911 conspiracy theories going. None of those behind the marketing of conspiracy products offer evidence; they will offer whatever they think the conspiracy market wants to hear no matter how anti-intellectual it is.
appeal to motive (15), appeal to spite (16), appeal to consequences (17)


No one has refuted all the simultaneous RADAR sites tracking Flight 77 to the Pentagon? What is wrong, some technical problem with decoding the data. The data is available, why avoid the evidence by ignoring it. The RADAR data is evidence, it shows Flight 77 ends at the Pentagon. With the FDR you can see the height above the ground go from 273 feet to 233, 183, 89, 57, and the final RADALT reading from the FDR of 4 feet. These FDR entries match the eyewitnesses.
bare assertion (18)


The detail, the small details kill the fantasy (the big fireball). The jet fuel fireball is exactly what a 757 with the fuel of Flight 77 would look like in a 483 KIAS impact. No one can refute this fact with evidence or experience.
straw man (19)


Has anyone told the loved ones of the dead, you know the dead passengers on Flight 77 found in the Pentagon identified by serial number (aka DNA) that it was all fake and they can rejoice their loved ones are not dead, it was all faked they are in Kokomo with the Beach Boys drinking beers in witness protection.
straw man (20)


What is the single integrated operation plan to go with no Flight 77? Does anyone have a coherent story backed with evidence? No, because all the evidence shows 77 crashed into the Pentagon.
bare assertion (21)

Those two posts were some of the most illogical drivel I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

What the OP asked was

When were the plane parts at the pentagon identified as belonging to AA77?



Try answering the question instead of trolling.

If you can not answer the question or prove the question invalid, i ask you please leave the thread to people who wish to discuss the topic.

[edit on 12/22/2009 by JPhish]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by JPhish
 


As far as I know only the FDR was identified as belonging to the plane involved in Flight AA77. Why? Is there some question about which plane it was? There were no other planes involved in the crash, so its not like parts were mixed together, mechanical failure was not involved in the crash so there is no reason to trace parts and maintenance. The plane was observed both by radar and on-ground witnesses as having impacted the Pentagon. DNA from the manifested crew and passengers was specifically identified at the crash scene.

Or is this just some kind of weak fishing expedition? An appeal to popular misconceptions about the means and methods of accident investigation? Do you know for a fact that all plane parts are always specifically identified during an investigation regardless of the suspected casues?



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by hooper
As far as I know only the FDR was identified


Wouldn't they want to harp on about a matched serial number from landing gear or other hard airframe component? If you've never been close to any large passenger jet landing gear, you really begin to appreciate the engineering and strength of the landing gear, plus many other strong components. And the utter ridicule of not identifying multiple parts of a 100 tonne plane with a legitimate, scientifically proven, normal air crash investigation method - as well as with the WTC aircraft accident investigation sites!



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by GhostR1der


Wouldn't they want to harp on about a matched serial number from landing gear or other hard airframe component?



But why would they do that when they consider it self-evident that the plane is AA77?



And the utter ridicule of not identifying multiple parts of a 100 tonne plane with a legitimate, scientifically proven, normal air crash investigation method - as well as with the WTC aircraft accident investigation sites!


I think that's the point though - that serial number identification is rarely carried out because planes are so easy to identify by other methods.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by thomk
 


You know, its like having a crazy person who is driving a car, screams "God is great" and, accelerating, plows into a group of people on the corner at 45mph, then into a parked car. Are the crime scene investigators and police going to pop the trunk and check the trunk light's S# and the cup holder's S# to see if it was for sure the same car that hit the people and then check the brakes to make sure that it wasn't just a brake failure, ignoring the rest of the car and blood and bodies and eyewitnesses?



[edit on 29/12/2009 by Sauron]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by thomk
Long story short:

NTSB does not, and never has, used serial numbers of parts to identify planes. There are other, much more reliable methods, of determining the identity of any crashed plane.



"DOES NOT"

"NEVER HAS"

Thanks to Swingdangler on another thread...

According to Susan Stevenson of the NTSB on 12/26/2007
"Yes. NTSB investigators rarely encounter a scenario when the identification of an accident aircraft is not apparent. But during those occasions, investigators will record serial numbers of major components, and then contact the manufacturer of those components in an attempt to determine what aircraft the component was installed upon."


Sorry but why should I take your word for what the NTSB does or has ever done over someone from the NTSB telling us what the NTSB does or has ever done.

Maybe you need to stick to trolling the threads you can get away with lying in.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by 911files
The assertion that serial numbers were not obtained is simply false. We will simply have to wait until the prosecutions are over and the files released to know exactly what identifiable parts were recovered.


Hmmmm....so which is it? The parts have all been cataloged by SN or they were not because the NTSB NEVER DOES THAT, it has NEVER BEEN DONE, is NOT BEING DONE HERE, and HAS NO NEED TO BE DONE. I guess I get confused when OS stories trip over each other.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale
Hmmmm....so which is it? The parts have all been cataloged by SN or they were not because the NTSB NEVER DOES THAT, it has NEVER BEEN DONE, is NOT BEING DONE HERE, and HAS NO NEED TO BE DONE. I guess I get confused when OS stories trip over each other.


You have a hard time keeping up don't you. I never said anything about the NTSB. The FDR was never in the custody of the NTSB. It was taken to the NTSB under the supervision of the FBI and its contents downloaded onto a computer. The actual FDR was evidence in a criminal investigation and as such remained in the custody of the FBI. Once the NTSB did its thing, the FDR left the building with the FBI. I'm not sure what part of the 'assisting the FBI' role of the NTSB you don't understand. So again, FBI handled the investigation, NOT the NTSB.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by 911files

Originally posted by Lillydale
Hmmmm....so which is it? The parts have all been cataloged by SN or they were not because the NTSB NEVER DOES THAT, it has NEVER BEEN DONE, is NOT BEING DONE HERE, and HAS NO NEED TO BE DONE. I guess I get confused when OS stories trip over each other.


You have a hard time keeping up don't you. I never said anything about the NTSB. The FDR was never in the custody of the NTSB. It was taken to the NTSB under the supervision of the FBI and its contents downloaded onto a computer. The actual FDR was evidence in a criminal investigation and as such remained in the custody of the FBI. Once the NTSB did its thing, the FDR left the building with the FBI. I'm not sure what part of the 'assisting the FBI' role of the NTSB you don't understand. So again, FBI handled the investigation, NOT the NTSB.


I think you have a hard time keeping up. This is not the FDR thread. I was replying to your statement about EVERYTHING BEING FOUND AND CATALOGED BY SN.


The assertion that serial numbers were not obtained is simply false. We will simply have to wait until the prosecutions are over and the files released to know exactly what identifiable parts were recovered.


So who is using these serial numbers and what for? The FDR is not even in your response so I am not sure why it is now. Serial numbers. OSers claim none were recorded because the NTSB NEVER DOES THAT. So...which is it? Please try to keep up - no FDR talk here. Did I type is slowly enough? If you had not gone and added that snark about how I cannot keep up, I could have let this part go but it is pretty funny to remark about me keeping up when you do not even know what you are responding to or apparently what thread you are in.

[edit on 12/22/09 by Lillydale]





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