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Why Switzerland Has The Lowest Crime Rate In The World

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posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


You can be armed in the UK. Rifles and shotguns are fine. It's just handguns that aren't. I don't know why you'd want everyone to be able to have handguns, as that would mean the person you imagine breaking in to your home would have one. Right now most burglaries don't involve firearms, which is why you don't hear about people getting shot in home robberies all the time. You're advocating to escalate that for some feeling of security, when all you're doing is ensuring if you were ever robbed, someone would die. Probably you.




posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by davesidious
You can be armed in the UK. Rifles and shotguns are fine. It's just handguns that aren't. I don't know why you'd want everyone to be able to have handguns, as that would mean the person you imagine breaking in to your home would have one. Right now most burglaries don't involve firearms, which is why you don't hear about people getting shot in home robberies all the time. You're advocating to escalate that for some feeling of security, when all you're doing is ensuring if you were ever robbed, someone would die. Probably you.


I live in the UK and am aware of the gun laws.

- You can only own a gun if you have a legitimate sporting or professional reason.

-There is no allowance for "safety" or "self defense"

- so, as most people do not have an excuse from their employment or have valid sporting use, ownership is low.



You also state that I wish " everyone" to own handguns- is this some sort of fertile imagintion, lie or mistake- I have never stated such a thing, please quote such a comment.

What I DO support (I'll form my own opinions thank you) is the right for law abiding citizens to own them- I do not wish to force

a) everyone to own them

b) allow criminals to have them


The people breaking and entering would generally be classed as criminals.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by TheWalkingFoxSo I presume you're typing form beneath your bed? It must be terrifyiing for you.



Odd comment- I do not live my life in fear, but know many people that do, elderly, women alone etc- I fully support the right of such law abiding citizens, as well as myself, to be armed.


So do I. Surprise! I also realize however, that armed law-abiding citizens are very often the ones who end up breaking the law, thereby transforming (As if by magic!) into "armed criminals". I also realize that Switzerland's security is largely a product of damn near draconian gun regulation laws, rather than some silly supposition of a "good neighbor" policy.

You brought up all the gun crime in "the hood" (wherever that may be). One would figure, by your logic and the logic of the OP, that this would in fact be a completely safe, Switzerland-like place, because so many people are armed. This is obviously not the case however.



Well, cap'n, I happen to live in the US. Originally from Alabama. I'm also not white, in fact. I'm Choctaw. well, half, on my dad's side. a fair number of the rednecks I know are, in fact, red all over, but that's beside the point.


what is your other half, white, black or asian? If that is half of your heritage, why do you obliterate one half?

The other half is a muddled medly of western european genetics to convoluted to trace. I identify as Choctaw first because I was raised as a Choctaw. It's as much a culture thing as a genetics thing. I understand this may be kind of hard to reconcile for you.


Yes, because that is how most people who own guns speak, kudos on such an insight


No, but I do make a distinction between "gun owner" and "gun nut". The gun owner is a person who owns a gun. The gun nut is someone who thinks possessing a gun makes him special, superior, part of a "culture".




as bad as saying all black men are rapists


Really? Saying gun nuts tend towards mullets and cheap beer is like saying an entire race of people are rapists?

Maybe if I had said "all whites are murderers" THAT would be like saying "all blacks are rapists"



No doubt, still don't fancy my chances armed with a tin of beans against someone with a gun or a knife


Well, even if you had a gun, you shouldn't fancy your chances in that situation anyway. Especially if you're Swiss, and your choice is throwing your can of spam, or spending a few minutes unlocking your gun, digging out ammo, loading, etc.

Hell, maybe gun crime in Switzerland is so low because it's just such a pain to get everything ready to go knock over the local jaeger store.




Very odd- you are saying that a the disabled, the infirm, most females, pensioners or people who are just not a crime fighting hero like yourself deserve to get "jacked up"- lovely stuff, I recommend spending Christmas in a hospital ward laughing at the victims of the crime- your assessment is like saying a woman who wears a mini skirt deserves to get raped

Totally bizzarre


Not at all. I'm saying if you can't figure out how it's done, then you're too dumb to own property in the first place. I didn't say you had to be able to execute the plan, just be able to figure out how it would be done. And I work at an elder care facility. Those little old ladies in their wheelchairs might not look like much, but they can pack a whollop. never underestimate the elderly. Anyone who makes it that long has definitely got something going for them




See above, and you wouldnt be happy if you get shot in the face waving your little tin of beans


I doubt i'd be much of anything if I got shot in the face while doing anything, really. Becoming abruptly deceased tends to do away with such things as "happy" or "perturbed" or "puzzled"




You would be better directing that at someone who likes breaking and entering someone's home- you seem to have me confused with that someone, I was talking about law abiding citizens arming themselves


And I was talking about the gun laws in Switzerland, but we both seem to have gotten into a tangent.

So again with hte "law abiding citizens". Why do pro-gun people talk like they're in a superman comic? Ah well. So, you're in favor of law-abiding citizens having guns, that's fine. How about law-abiding non-citizens?

Better yet though, let's look at the law-abiding part. You're really hard up for this bit, the right of law-abiding people to have guns. Like a lot of pro-gun people, you give the impression that there are two immutable castes, the law-abiding, and the criminal. You want the law-abiders to have guns to protect them from the criminals.

So. Where do the criminals get their guns? Now a logical thought is that the criminals are, in fact, the same people as the law-abiders who have simply ceased to adhere to the law, and are using the guns they legally purchased as law-abiding citizens. This is backed up by evidence of many a law-abider purchasing a gun specifically to commit a crime with it.

Since this conflicts with your black-white view of the universe, where there are only 100% law-abiders and 100% criminals and no grey between them, I presume you have a much more entertaining explanation for criminals being armed. This being ATS, feel free to involve reptilians, cubes of time, and a Kennedy in your explanation if you feel the need.


And for the record, I wouldn't give a damn if it was an Indian, white or black dude waving a tin of beans *in this bizzarre hypothetical scenario where I am breaking into homes*


Well, true enough, getting your ass beat by a can of baked beans would be pretty embarassing no matter who chucked it. Point for you.



speaking from personal experience one presumes


*sticks on Mozart*


Well, my experience with certain islanders, sure.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
So do I. Surprise! I also realize however, that armed law-abiding citizens are very often the ones who end up breaking the law, thereby transforming (As if by magic!) into "armed criminals".



Then they would not be law abiding citizens would they, they would be "criminals"- one cannot guarantee things, I never dive into the realm of utopia, that would be silly, and I am not silly



I also realize that Switzerland's security is largely a product of damn near draconian gun regulation laws, rather than some silly supposition of a "good neighbor" policy.


They are not "draconian"- "draconian" gun laws are what we have here in the UK and in..............North Korea for example



You brought up all the gun crime in "the hood" (wherever that may be).


Is the hood like "narnia", does it not really exist?

Certain areas where there is a greater (and much greater) occurrence of crime than the norm



One would figure, by your logic and the logic of the OP, that this would in fact be a completely safe, Switzerland-like place, because so many people are armed. This is obviously not the case however.


That would be some strange logic- is the crime in the "hood"/narnia mainly committed by legally held weaponry by citizens without criminal records? Wowser, who would have thought it!





The other half is a muddled medly of western european genetics to convoluted to trace. I identify as Choctaw first because I was raised as a Choctaw. It's as much a culture thing as a genetics thing. I understand this may be kind of hard to reconcile for you.


The other half is white/european then- pretty simple, no need to complicate it- and certainly no need to remove half your heritage, you are half white, half indian




No, but I do make a distinction between "gun owner" and "gun nut". The gun owner is a person who owns a gun. The gun nut is someone who thinks possessing a gun makes him special, superior, part of a "culture".


One suspects your classification for those in the "nut" category would be rather large, and perhaps it is your view of them that is the superior one, perhaps you should shine a mirror on your own preconceptions?





Really? Saying gun nuts tend towards mullets and cheap beer is like saying an entire race of people are rapists?


yeah, same ball park, both lazy categorisation



Maybe if I had said "all whites are murderers" THAT would be like saying "all blacks are rapists"


that would be lazy too



Well, even if you had a gun, you shouldn't fancy your chances in that situation anyway. Especially if you're Swiss, and your choice is throwing your can of spam, or spending a few minutes unlocking your gun, digging out ammo, loading, etc.


So many scenarios, noise downstairs, I would have ample time to load my gun, another scenario is that inside my house, perhaps I was awake and decided to clean my gun and check my bullets, they just "happened" to be ready, so easy to get around



Hell, maybe gun crime in Switzerland is so low because it's just such a pain to get everything ready to go knock over the local jaeger store.


They have a strong moral, social and national sense of "code"- family units are strong and they are armed- they also ban minarets- they make great chocolate have some of the most amazing scenery in the world and do a great line in watches and knives- if I was you I'd be researching my "complicated" white half and latchin onto any Swiss culture





Not at all. I'm saying if you can't figure out how it's done, then you're too dumb to own property in the first place.


So, for anyone who cannot take out an intruder with the use of a tin of beans (ie the majority of the population) they are "too dumb" to own property- have you listened to yourself, seriously, that is classic



I didn't say you had to be able to execute the plan, just be able to figure out how it would be done.


I could figure out how to set up a home alone style system of traps, sticky tar, broken glass on the floor etc routine, doesnt mean it is practical or would actually help



And I work at an elder care facility. Those little old ladies in their wheelchairs might not look like much, but they can pack a whollop. never underestimate the elderly. Anyone who makes it that long has definitely got something going for them



They would have something going for them, but they would be more likely to be raped and murdered if they were not armed



I doubt i'd be much of anything if I got shot in the face while doing anything, really. Becoming abruptly deceased tends to do away with such things as "happy" or "perturbed" or "puzzled"


indeed, the split second before the bullet smashing open your head would be a rather unhappy one



So again with hte "law abiding citizens". Why do pro-gun people talk like they're in a superman comic?


heh, so says the crime fighting jackie chan laughing at the non ninjas



Ah well. So, you're in favor of law-abiding citizens having guns, that's fine. How about law-abiding non-citizens?


Are you referring to immigrants? No, not until they are legally part of the country, sorry immigrants, but nobody forced you to come



Better yet though, let's look at the law-abiding part. You're really hard up for this bit, the right of law-abiding people to have guns.


far from hard up



Like a lot of pro-gun people, you give the impression that there are two immutable castes, the law-abiding, and the criminal.


at any one time there are- like a lot of pro gun people, I am not a "utopian" though



You want the law-abiders to have guns to protect them from the criminals.


No, the "right" to, I would not make it compulsory



So. Where do the criminals get their guns?


mainly from other criminals



Now a logical thought is that the criminals are, in fact, the same people as the law-abiders who have simply ceased to adhere to the law, and are using the guns they legally purchased as law-abiding citizens. This is backed up by evidence of many a law-abider purchasing a gun specifically to commit a crime with it.


If those previously law abiding people use their legally held weapon to commit a crime, they should

a) be punished for the crime
b) forfeith the right to own a gun

Clearly we do not have devices which can see into the future to see whether someone who has currently not committed a crime, will commit a crime- I am not utopian




Since this conflicts with your black-white view of the universe, where there are only 100% law-abiders and 100% criminals and no grey between them, I presume you have a much more entertaining explanation for criminals being armed. This being ATS, feel free to involve reptilians, cubes of time, and a Kennedy in your explanation if you feel the need.



That does not conflict with my view, that conflicts with your mistaken belief as to what my view is





Well, true enough, getting your ass beat by a can of baked beans would be pretty embarassing no matter who chucked it. Point for you.



Firstly, I would not have broken into the home, secondly, if someone randomly assaulted me with a can of beans, I would hope that I could fight back, but if I was beaten to death with it, say someone blindsided me with it, I would say that "embarrassment" is not what my wife and kids would be feeling



Well, my experience with certain islanders, sure.


Probably says more about your own "circle" of friends, but hey, you hang out with who you like


[edit on 22-12-2009 by blueorder]



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