Does God hate religion too?

Israel was delivered from slavery in Egypt because of a promise made to Abraham.

Israel was being oppressed, so it was an act of justice to have them made free.

But in a relatively short time they manufactured their own form of bondage...
...they made 'the 10 words' (Decalogue 10 Commands) into 612...
...and simple meals as memorials of their deliverance they soon formalized into a religion.

By the time of prophets Isaiah and Amos, the Lord found their religion abhorrant...
...and called them to reflect the justice that He had shown them.

Isaiah 1:11-17 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? 13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. 14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.


Amos 5:21-24 "I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. 22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. 23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. 24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream."

Modern versions try to clean this up...
...but Amos records the Lord as saying 'I will not 'fart' in your solemn assemblies.

It seems to be a weakness of humans that we...
...prefer ritual to freedom...
...and religion to helping the oppressed...
...and being right to doing right.

Apparently God hates religion too!



[edit on 20/12/09 by troubleshooter]

Lol, yeah. God can be a complete asshole, even to his own people.
Ya know, lol, if you think about it like that, this world makes a bit more sense.
Did God eventually just say,"here son, take'em, I'm getin' the @#$% outta here!?"

Don't forget about the rest of the Bible. We don't have to make 'apparent' guesses about what God does and does not approve of when the Bible says already:

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." - James 1:27

"But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God." - 1 Timothy 5:4

[edit on 20-12-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by troubleshooter

Agree.
The most "religious" persons of Jesus' day were the Pharasies, a Jewish sect, one of three main sects at the time. He indicated that in their perfect adherence to religious law, behavior, and ceremony, they missed and obscured God's truth and righteousness.

ATSers interested in reading more....Every gospel, i.e. the four "books" of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John contained in the first part of the New Testament of the Bible are filled with exchanges between Jesus and the Pharisies.


[edit on 20-12-2009 by pumpkinorange]

Who knows. I don't profess to know the mind of god, and find the hubris of those who do a mixture of novelty and revulsion. Pondering and speculating upon the whim of such a being who is every bit as likely to be a figment of our imaginations is fine in the exploration of human curiosity, but until God speaks for itself as to his intentions and feelings on the matter - it is important to note that whatever is concluded about his intent IS simply human imagination - and not to be taken with but more than a grain of salt and levity.

Our study of the creation we find ourselves in, and how we came to be here, has revealed that human intuition is in most cases so profoundly contrary to the way the Universe really works. We wouldn't need Science, after all, if we were innately skilled at inferring the way things are based on intuition. We see the world in ways which are useful to us and our survival at the scale and size of the middle-world (as Dawkins puts it) we inhabit. I find it likely that our perceptions of God are similarly speckled with anthropomorphic intuitions which apply to our human interactions... but which are meaningless and inapplicable to reality.

Does god hate religion? If god were a human living in our human societies... perhaps... but isn't just as applicable to ask; Do tornadoes hate religion? Do the solar winds hate religion? Have the 15 or so odd pounds of bacterial colonies in our intestines hate religion?

We tend to infer order and structure as being created from top-down... but reality is almost exclusively arranged from the bottom up. Couldn't it also well be the case that God may be better described in terms of bottom-up organization like the creation we are a part of, whereas the religions that man creates illustrate top-down cosmologies that reflect our top-down view of social hierarchy, organization, and order?

I believe in God, but I empathize with the position of Atheists and my reasoning aligns with theirs. There is no evidence to suggest a god exists yet discovered in the natural cosmology. But if God does exist, would people be willing to give up their religion to embrace god? Would god even be something we can embrace and engage on a personal level? Or is such a being no only so far beyond our meager conceptions - but so contrary to those very conceptions that matters of religion and spirituality are just not applicable.

The age old question of what motivates Helios to drive his chariot through the sky still hasn't been answered despite all of our science and philosophy. This doesn't indicate the limit of our understanding Helios, that we can't answer the question... it's just a matter of the question not being relevant.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Lasheic]

Christianity is in for a rude awakening.

They make it all about sacrifice, but sacrifice is not what is desired.

Matthew 9

13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

That is what Jesus says. But still they make it all about the sacrifice. Jesus was quoting the OT there.

Hosea 6

5Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

6For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

7But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Originally posted by heyo
Ya know, lol, if you think about it like that, this world makes a bit more sense.

Israel began with a promise and a deliverance from oppression...
...but it became an oppressive religion.

The spirit of freedom solidified into a cold formalism.

Christendom has done the same thing.



[edit on 21/12/09 by troubleshooter]

reply to post by troubleshooter

Apparently God hates religion too!

Perhaps God DOES hate religion... at least, some forms of it. Religion is a man made means to gather and concentrate the human value under one roof.

But none of this is to say that one absolutely must adhere to any specific religion to believe in God or to follow His word. It is a point I have tried to make many times here at ATS... that religion is not the work of God, but of man and so too, the acts of religion should be attributed to man and not God.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

Apparently God hates religion too!

Perhaps God DOES hate religion... at least, some forms of it. Religion is a man made means to gather and concentrate the human value under one roof.

But none of this is to say that one absolutely must adhere to any specific religion to believe in God or to follow His word. It is a point I have tried to make many times here at ATS... that religion is not the work of God, but of man and so too, the acts of religion should be attributed to man and not God.

This is my concern...
...what I read in the biblical manuscripts is that the Lord is concerned for humanity not religion...
...that Jesus strongest words were spoken against religionists...
...and He spent His time with those religion had rejected and oppressed.

Most on ATS fail to make the distinction between the 'Lord who became Jesus and Christ' and religion...
...which He hates...
...but although Christendom claims His name, their system is the antithesis of Him.

Christendom has become like the religion/religionists that Jesus rebuked...
...He even predicted that it would...
...Jesus said the following to the final church through John...

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:" Revelation 3:15-17

Jesus is depicted standing outside knocking to gain entry...
...to the end time church that bears His name...
...and He gives up on the task and makes an appeal to any individual that will hear Hiim.

"I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20

Are you 'any man'?

interesting how people upon hearing God quote Bible. as if there`s no such book as Koran. this is true for Muslims and the reps of other religions too. i mean does the fact that there are several religious books not seed some doubt as to the credibility of Bible or any other religious book??

also why do people hate Satan? isnt it his credit that you evolved from being a dumb ape in Eden and obtained knowledge? if it wasnt for him, how would you know he`s evil? apparently God wanted you stay dumb in a paradise, maybe inbreed and do other such atrocious sh*t due to your lack of knowledge...then Satan comes along, educates you...and you hate Satan for that. also how many years are there between this event and the writing of Bible?

assigning thought processes to a mythical being, has no validity. thus an answer to your question delves into the world of fantasy.

it was more of a rhetorical question aimed at religious folk. as for the one about the years, well, i think religious people can come with credible documents.

Not to try and plug an old thread of mine, but I personally don't think God intended for "religion" either.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Gnostic Christians were of the opinion that the thing some people like to define as "God," the infinite creator entity, was far beyond our understaning in any way, shape or form, and that there was no way we could deal with it. Praying to such a thing was a complete and egotistical waste of time. To think one pathetic human could influence God was ridiculous.

They concluded that we were essentially trapped in an insane existence of torment and fear, and one way to deal with it was by trying to be nice to each other and not make the torment worse by being mean and cruel. It doesn't matter in the end, of course, since we all die. But at least while we're alive if we can make it a tiny bit better, why not?

A religion that helps us make it through life with the minimum amount of pain makes sense, but it doesn't have anything to do with the will of some incomprehensible, unfathomable, transdimensional creator/driver "thing."

Originally posted by 2000 Yards
The Gnostic Christians were of the opinion that the thing some people like to define as "God," the infinite creator entity, was far beyond our understaning in any way, shape or form, and that there was no way we could deal with it. Praying to such a thing was a complete and egotistical waste of time. To think one pathetic human could influence God was ridiculous.

Gnostic Christians is an oxymoron.

Gnostics believe they are saved by secret knowledge.

Christians believe the basis of salvation is no secret...
...although it seems like foolishness.

Salvation for Christians is a historical act that sealed a covenant and began a New Creation...
...God became man and did what we could not do, transend death and begin a New Creation.

The goal of Gnosticism is to be released from the flesh to become pure spirit.

Christians believe we are part of God's family now by faith and our flesh will be remade soon at an Escatological event.

Gnosicism has Greek roots.
Christians have Hebrew roots.

They concluded that we were essentially trapped in an insane existence of torment and fear, and one way to deal with it was by trying to be nice to each other and not make the torment worse by being mean and cruel. It doesn't matter in the end, of course, since we all die. But at least while we're alive if we can make it a tiny bit better, why not?

The Gnostics imported Jesus into their philosophy to take advantage of its growing popularity...
...but 'spiritualized' His death and resurrection to fit their philosophy...
...as some New Age adherents do today.

A religion that helps us make it through life with the minimum amount of pain makes sense, but it doesn't have anything to do with the will of some incomprehensible, unfathomable, transdimensional creator/driver "thing."

Christianity originally was, and is still not a religion...
...what you see now are merely man made forms run by administrators and accountants...
...but these forms are not 'the church'.

Christianity was forced into existence by a historical event that happened amongst them...
... Jesus was seen following His resurrection by more than 500 people.

These people were confronted with a historical event...
...and the realization that the Lord who walked with Adam and who had spoken to Noah, Abraham and Moses, the Shekinah presence of God that inhabited the Sanctuary...
...had become human, sealed the covenant by His death...
...and gone through death to become a transphysical being.

This was followed up at Penecost by His Spirit coming to reside in all who believe.

Real Christians are those who have been confronted with this history...
...and who have the Spirit of Jesus within and among them.

Ps.
Being a Christian does not made your life easy...
...the Spirit makes demands that cut across your natural inclinations...
...He confronts you with situations you think you can not bear...
...a relationship with the Spirit is 'tough love'...
...but it is the true realization of who you are and why you are here...
...and that is worth all the pain.

I will warn you, don't ask for His Spirit unless you are ready for pain and change and so much self-realization that you think you will break...
...but being part of this New Creation is worth every bit of it.



[edit on 22/12/09 by troubleshooter]

Religion is what you have left when the Spirit leaves the building - Bono

god hates?
*sigh*
one doesn't even know where to start on that one...

religion is to prevent wisdom and replace it with obedience

from root words

LIG, LI, LY- bindligament, oblige, religion, liable, liaison, lien, ally

www.scribd.com...

I see the root word lie in there too

Originally posted by Danbones
god hates?
*sigh*
one doesn't even know where to start on that one...

religion is to prevent wisdom and replace it with obedience

from root words

LIG, LI, LY- bindligament, oblige, religion, liable, liaison, lien, ally

www.scribd.com...

I see the root word lie in there too

What does religion mean?

"Re" means "again"; "ligare" means "to bind."

So 'religion' actually means to 'bind to' or to 'bind again'.

This is in stark contrast to Jesus words that he came to set men free.

John 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

In his first letter Paul warned the Galatian Christians about retreating back into religious forms when he said, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Galatians 5:1