Death penalty may force UK out of Saddam trial

The Brits are set to complicate matters in the upcoming trial of Saddam Hussein because of their personal beliefs regarding the death penalty.

here

BRITAIN is set to refuse to hand over evidence of Saddam Hussein�s atrocities to Iraqi prosecutors because of opposition to the death penalty faced by the deposed dictator.

Scotland on Sunday has learned that squeamishness in government circles about the likely fate awaiting Saddam is one of the factors complicating his long-awaited prosecution.

An opinion poll last week revealed that four out of five Iraqis believe Saddam was guilty of murdering and torturing civilians, and more than 60% believe he should face the death penalty.

But the Foreign Office has confirmed that the Iraqi�s continuing determination to mete out the ultimate punishment on Saddam has thrown into doubt Britain�s participation in the tribunal that will decide his fate.

The fact that the majority of Iraqi's believe he should face the death penalty apparently means nothing to the UK. Should the UK park their own laws at the door when it comes to the most important trial in Iraqi history?

Originally posted by jsobecky


The fact that the majority of Iraqi's believe he should face the death penalty apparently means nothing to the UK. Should the UK park their own laws at the door when it comes to the most important trial in Iraqi history?

Since when did people start worrying about what the majority of Iraqis want? Oh, yes, June 30th, how silly of me. Since the Brits were really the only country who had our backs through all of this, and since Blair put his butt on the line for Bush, I think we owe them to let them have a say on Iraqi matters. Me personally? I don't see how us kicking Saddam out, putting him on trial, then killing him, is really going to win hearts and minds. Put him in a prison and let him get old. I don't think we need people wearing t-shirts saying "Remember Saddam!"

EDIT: curse word

[Edited on 23-5-2004 by curme]

The Iraqi people will decided Saddam's fate, as they rightly should.
Whether the UK or the US or anyone else's gives their own evidences, the Iraqis were excellent record keepers and have their OWN records to judge and sentence Saddam.


seekerof

You will find that is our illustrious leaders (Blair 'Mr good lap dog') and his socialist eurotrash loving commie bast**ds colleagues talking there.

Most ordinary UK members of Britain's Joe P. Ublic would like to see a 'Berg' done on Saddam.

Soldiers shoulda just shot the sod on sight.

Originally posted by rustiswordz
Most ordinary UK members of Britain's Joe P. Ublic would like to see a 'Berg' done on Saddam.

Really, rustiswordz? I would hope that "most ordinary" Britons would be above condoning that kind of disgusting act. I know I would. There are a lot of Americans and other nationalities on this board, so please be more circumspect when you're signing the British public up for something - not everyone will realise you're in a minority.

At the risk of opening the floodgates, we're supposed to be the civilised world. Surely we're beyond capital punishment by now - and if we're not, we damn well should be.

Most Britons ???

Anyway,I think this is a bit of a story out of nothing.UK and EU policy is well known but does a conviction of Saddam Hussein really hang in the balance because of "British Evidence".

Some how I doubt it.As for UK participation in any legal tribunal,I think it should be done by the Iraqis.Not the U.S or the UK.

Again a non-issue.

What a pointlessly inflammatory article.

We don't need to provide evidence, they have enough in Iraq.
As to the death penalty, it was stopped in this country because its a barbaric ( and often stupid ) way to treat your criminals.
It is, quite simply, against the law.

That prevents us from supporting any trial that may result in the death of the suspect.

i thik that saddam is a little mofo he sucks ass. They should have killed him when they cought em

To John Bull and Simon:

You may think it is a non-issue, but it would appear that the UK has some influence in the trial, in the form of evidence and witnesses that would be used in the trial.
From the original article:

"Either we produce our evidence in the full expectation that it will help condemn someone to the death penalty," one said, "or we sit it out altogether - and it is obvious how badly that would go down."

and this:

British officials last night confirmed that the stalemate could veto any handover of British intelligence reports and other information, and prevent any government staff from standing as witnesses against Saddam.

If the Brits had evidence that could help convict a thief, and the Iraqi penalty for theft was to cut off the hand of the thief, should the UK withhold it's evidence?

And to Simon:

As to the death penalty, it was stopped in this country because its a barbaric ( and often stupid ) way to treat your criminals.

That is a liberal view that is not universally held, by a long shot.

......and the hang 'em, flog 'em brigade are not the majority in the UK either.

A Saddam Hussein conviction isn't dependent on British evidence.It doesn't matter if we participate or not.

This is The Scotsman right ? Trying to think...... that's one of the papers Andrew Neil edits isn't it ?

Why the hell is everything liberal or conservative with you people. It is not a "liberal" view its my view. We still have those. And the fact that its not universally held ? who cares. I've seen polls indicating Britain's want the death penalty, I've seen polls indicating they don't, Its certainly not been a big enough issue to stop people voting for the government on it and it certainly IS barbaric.

As to it being a non issue whether we give evidence or not, its really simple.

In the UK we don't support the death penalty.
The Iraqi's have plenty of evidence to sentence him to death without ours.

Regardless of whether we give evidence or don't he will get the death penalty. So what is the point in overthrowing our political stance on providing supporting evidence to countries that maintain the death penalty when ultimately it won't effect the outcome ?

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by Simon]

Originally posted by StrangeLands

Originally posted by rustiswordz
Most ordinary UK members of Britain's Joe P. Ublic would like to see a 'Berg' done on Saddam.

Really, rustiswordz? I would hope that "most ordinary" Britons would be above condoning that kind of disgusting act. I know I would.

Really, everyone ive spoken to, men and women (i work in the public sector so i talk to a lot of people) all say that we should have executed him on sight.

i think you place FAR too much 'faith' in human 'civilization'

How exactly does the death penalty solve anything? Maybe the guy does deserve to die, but it's not up to any individual or group to make that call.

Really, everyone ive spoken to, men and women (i work in the public sector so i talk to a lot of people) all say that we should have executed him on sight.

And this coming from a nation of people who supposedly believe in upholding the law. Sentence and execution without trial, what a great precedent that would set. Moron...

Dead men don't suffer...

And...? If you're trying to say what I think you are then I have to agree with you, why kill the guy when life would be worse for him with life-imprisonment?

Exactly!

Death isn't punishment, death is release.

Originally posted by rustiswordz
i think you place FAR too much 'faith' in human 'civilisation'

I couldn't disagree more. The barbaric, vocal minority may carry the tabloid headlines, but I believe that every person has a spark of good - a human capacity for charity, compassion and consideration - inside them. Most people don't let it out, in the same way that most people don't exercise their intellect and most people (in the UK at least) will be drooling in front of Big Brother 5 this coming Friday night.

"Most people" are ruled by fear and ignorance.

I couldn't disagree more. The barbaric, vocal minority may carry the tabloid headlines, but I believe that every person has a spark of good - a human capacity for charity, compassion and consideration - inside them. Most people don't let it out, in the same way that most people don't exercise their intellect and most people (in the UK at least) will be drooling in front of Big Brother 5 this coming Friday night.

I hate to generalise here but why is it that the posts from this side of the atlantic are always a little more controlled?

Originally posted by Oisin
I hate to generalise here but why is it that the posts from this side of the atlantic are always a little more controlled?

Because, my very dear Sir, we're always frightfully afraid of offending anyone, don't you know? I myself labour daily to remain in good sorts and cultivate a cheery demeanour. Indeed, I recommend we all Prepare For The Charmed Revolution!

I can't say I've noticed an Atlantic factor in the restraint displayed in posts - nutters seem to be universal!

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by StrangeLands]

Yep, maybe you're right, anyway I'm Irish so I don't qualify, Celtic fireyness and all that