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The majority of Americans came to America in the last century and didn't kill Indians or enslave bl

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posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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well they haven't had it for forever yet have they?

So because our collective european ancestors didn't make sure these native american leaders completely understood the contract I am culpable?

got change for a $20?

now as far as the slavery thing,sucks man.
embarrassing for the human species that we ever came up with it.
but I am blameless and owe nothing for it and I will not accept blame for it.


[edit on 22-12-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]




posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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My ancestors may have been involved in the African slave trade. Your ancestors may have been involved in the slave trade. The nations of those taken as slaves were also involved in the slave trade!
But the truth is none of us who are here today are responsible or guilty. Tell me, where do we draw the line at blame? Should I perhaps go after the Italians because the Romans conquered Britain? On the other hand I believe they brought us central heating so maybe not...
We need to put aside endless - and rather convenient - recriminations. We need to let go of blame and guilt. We need to address things in the present.
Frankly I'm tired of the endless whining that invariable comes with the open hand. 'You owe us this because...' 'We are this way because...'. Like a young person growing up, cultures need eventually to take responsibility for themselves.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Nice dialogue JohnnyCanuck. My question to you is why is that most foreigners (especially Canadians) seem to understand the systemic institution slavery created in America and its benefits for a certain group better than ACTUAL American citizens. Jeez it's like if they stick their head in the ground long enough to problem will suddenly go away.

I'd like to see you and Pat Robertson having a nice chat!

Good job!



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by the_denv
 


Erm.....maybe you should read some history books.



i dont know why people even read history books. they seem no better than Bible when it comes to the amount of fairy tales they contain.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by marsvolta]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
If there was an award for making the most pathetic, unlogical, bias and or least historically accurate threads, this OP would win it hands down.

Obviously the OP's vision is seriously clouded by stuckup white middle class american ideologies combined with racial southern redneck social standards.

Really give up OP, maybe make a thread about stuff you actually know about. Might I suggest Lamchops Play Along, Sesame street and remedial english 101


ok, not to be a devil`s advocate, but still tho you gave zero contra argument that`s logically backed up aside from kiddie style bashing of the OP. and you got bagillion stars for it.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by magnetik
Doc Velocity No disrespect but , How are you full blooded American if your ancestors are from Europe ? 2 of my Great Grand Parents are full blood Americans as in Native to this land

Thank you for asking that question, magnetik, I really mean that. Now, I'm going to go through this one time, and I hope I don't have to repeat myself later.

First of all, I stated that my European ancestors repeatedly interbred with the Indians, which is the term I prefer over "Native American," and we've got so much native blood in my family, collected from the East Coast to the Gulf Coast to the American Southwest, we by God look like Indians, and we are tough like Indians, and we commune with the Earth like Indians, and we don't like other Indians, just like the real Indians do.

So, I'm more Indian than Fred Bear or Frank Waters, okay. And I'm a better hunter with a long bow than Fred Bear — I'll just put that out there for you archers. That qualifies me as Indian, for sure...




wow this tramples everything. what an accomplishment. you are a trve Uhumrican. welll earned cvlt status.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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That actually would be a really cool thread,
the hidden messages in sesame street...

but to keep on topic.

why aren't they spending time freeing the slaves in africa today?
I just watched a horrible documentary on cocoa plantations keeping slaves in africa on the western coast.

but I guess the slaves got their freedom and their descendants are equal americans now so why not blame white americans rather than try to free others still in africa enslaved.*(referring to some and not all,some aren't retarded just like everyone else)

but what do i know
there's enough blame for everyone because if you buy stuff from china it was made by pretty much child labor.

we are all horrible mammals!
lets go back to the trees!

[edit on 22-12-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by semperfoo


I wasnt going to respond till I read this post...Its ripe for the picking.
People like you make Iraq sound like it was some grand utopia before the evil mighty US invaded...when in fact, it was not. Saddam killed millions, and ruled with an iron fist. his people were far worse off under him, and his two sons. if you think otherwise, you are delusional, which given by the rest of your post, wouldnt be that far off of an accurate assessment.


i heard and read exactly the opposite of you are saying here. that Iraq was a functioning society prior to USofA invasion. what is your source? is it better than other sources? maybe the ones i read were lying...that`s the reason i dont believe one bit of whatever media.


[edit on 22-12-2009 by marsvolta]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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gdeed, you're as full of # as a Christmas turkey if you don't think the settlers of America mistreated Native Americans. You're thread is the second most uninformed thread I have ever seen here at ATS in the last two days!!! Moderators, what is going on!!!??? Why even allow for drivel like this to be posted?

[edit on 22-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
I am blameless and owe nothing for it and I will not accept blame for it.

Thing is...are your tax dollars going towards supporting an unending ineffectual social safety net that does nothing to actually give folks a leg up? Cuz ours appear to be. What I'm saying is that if you keep doing the something over and over again expecting different results...that is a measure of insanity, right? Time to do something different because whether you like it or not, problems exist and whether you accept it or not, they are inherent in the system due to disenfranchisement in the colonial process.


Originally posted by cenpuppie
Nice dialogue JohnnyCanuck. My question to you is why is that most foreigners (especially Canadians) seem to understand the systemic institution slavery created in America and its benefits for a certain group better than ACTUAL American citizens.

Aside from the American History I took in university...(did you know that during the great emancipation, Lincoln only freed the slaves that were not under his control) we had slavery here too (banned in 1833), and we have a dismal history of dealing with the First Nations as well. We are close enough kin to the US that we understand the issues if we choose to, and far enough removed that some of them are revealed in that context.


Originally posted by unicorn1
Tell me, where do we draw the line at blame? Should I perhaps go after the Italians because the Romans conquered Britain?

I don't know..do you feel that you have been disenfranchised by the Italians, and that subsequent minority issues affect your life on a daily basis? Then maybe so... Maybe you should talk to the Irish for a better perspective.


We need to address things in the present. Frankly I'm tired of the endless whining that invariable comes with the open hand. 'You owe us this because...' 'We are this way because...'. Like a young person growing up, cultures need eventually to take responsibility for themselves.

Sure...how to do that is the question...not a lot of answers turning up here, but sure as hell the problems won't go away until something is fixed.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


well we have no say in our government.
I tried and failed repeatedly to change it for 20 yrs.
It can only go on for so long before it collapses from corruption
only thing i see is let it die and try to survive long enough to build a better one from the ashes.

too many problems in the world and my own life to sit around worrying how other ethnicities can be brought to feel pretty.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Moderators, what is going on!!!??? Why even allow for drivel like this to be posted?


Naturally you and many like you want to shut people like me up.
You are in good company, the public schools and Hollywood, when it comes to willfully distorting the truth about Americans and don't want the real truth out.



[edit on 22-12-2009 by gdeed]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Little One
ALL you you that refer to Native Americans as 'Indians' are JUST AS IGNORANT as any person that would use the words ni&&er - spick - jap or chink. EDUCATE YOURSELVES before you talk about us NATIVE AMERICANS! You dont even respect us enough to call us our proper names - instead some of you choose to stick 'Indian' on us and expect us not to give a damn... WELL IM DAMN SICK AND TIRED OF IT BEING OK HERE TO CALL A Native American AN INDIAN and that be ACCEPTABLE HERE!
WRONG!!!! Did I say this was wrong? ITS W R O N G!

Keep your Ghost Dancer shirt on, Chief. I've got more Indian blood running through my veins than you do, and I think the politically-correct "Native Americans" out there are spineless, thin-skinned sellouts who would rather adopt a specifically Italian name ("Amerigo") than use their own tribal name.

Problem is, my Indian blood comes from many tribes all across this continent — so what tribal name should I use? Do I call myself Iroquois-Shawnee-Bear River-Cherokee-Kickapoo-Choctaw-Natchez-Arapaho-Comanche?



Or should I go by French-Mexican-German-Scottish-British?

Or do I call myself Caucasian-Negro-Mongol?



Or do I call myself Native American although I have no Italian blood in me whatsoever?

If I have to identify myself by nationality, I'll go by American, because I was born and raised in America, just as you were. If I must identify myself by mixed cultural background, I choose Earthman.

But don't pretend to lecture me on my preference for "Indian"... I know better than you do, Chief.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by rizla

Originally posted by Chad_Thomas89
There is no debt. The history of mankind is based off someone killing someone, someone invading someone, someone destroying someone. It's just what we do. There's no changing it. No people or land is safe from the atrocities their ancestors have caused and to say their is a debt is naive. It's not the American way, it's the human way.


But their is shame. If their is no shame, the soul is dead.
Of course there is shame but our generations after violence should feel a sense of pity more than anything. There should be no debt, no apology, no forgiveness. That just leaves us all in a neverending cycle of dillusion and stagnation. The key is to study the past, analyze it, learn from it, and then practice what you learnt from it. Hopefully for the better but we are human afterall.....to apologize to a black man for my ancestors actions is to apologize for humanity's actions. I can't do that. We are who we are and the only thing we can do is try to better ourselves as a whole and move forward.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Chad_Thomas89
There is no debt... to apologize to a black man for my ancestors actions is to apologize for humanity's actions. I can't do that. We are who we are and the only thing we can do is try to better ourselves as a whole and move forward.

Bravo.


Beyond the futility of offering apologies 140 years or more after the fact, there is the insult of offering monetary compensation for the suffering of others.

Monetary reparation for slavery is a revolting bribe to forget the suffering of one's ancestors — only a revolting pig would offer such "reparation," and only a revolting pig would accept it.

Besides, how are they going to prove who is or is not a descendent of slaves?

Does that mean that blacks who are the descendants of slave-owners are disqualified from reparations? Does that mean whites who have the blood of slave ancestors are qualified to receive reparations?

You can't sort it out, and it shouldn't be sorted out, because it constitutes the worst kind of racial profiling — it's racial profiling to determine who is worthy and who is unworthy.

And when you reach that despicable depth of profiling, you're just a breath away from race war.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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You hit it square on, friend.

I'm German and Irish, and both sides of the family hailed from there.

Dad's side came here from Germany in the 1930s before WW2 broke out, and Mom's side came here from Ireland in the early 1900s / late 1800s.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Africans and Haitians continue to enslave their own people. Former slaves created their utopia away from the white man in Haiti and have remained slaves to black overloads since.


news.yahoo.com...



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by gdeed
Yet the two big beefs about Americans are that they killed Indians and stole their land and they brought black slaves here. Baloney!
Millions of Chinese, Italians, Germans, Irish and people from every corner of the world came to America to escape tyranny in their own countries and to have a chance to make a life for themselves. They didn't kill or enslave anyone! So back off, all you haters of Americans!
Reparations are designed to dived and conquer America, and they are winning with deceit and baloney!




[edit on 20-12-2009 by gdeed]

European's and decendent's of European's (American's) DID kill indian's and bring black slave's as well as enslave native population's in all of the America's.

It makes me sad that people can be so hatefull and uncaring about the GENOCIDE of human being's and actually try to defend the inhumane murderer's that carried out such evil deed's.

I keep hearing about how the Irish etc never killed indian's which is complete BS as some of the greatest Injun fighter's were of irish decent and were killing indian's right up until the early 1900's.

No one has to feel guilt about what other people's ancestor's did, but there is still nothing wrong with respecting the ten's of million's of innocent human live's that were lost to greed and deception.

Im Santee Sioux and I don't want anyone to feel guilty about anything but only to respect those that were lost. And to all of the people making racial slur's and saying racist remark's like "sell a few pelt's" grow up and if your older then 25 year's old slap yourself for being so immature.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Keep your Ghost Dancer shirt on, Chief. I've got more Indian blood running through my veins than you do, and I think the politically-correct "Native Americans" out there are spineless, thin-skinned sellouts who would rather adopt a specifically Italian name ("Amerigo") than use their own tribal name.

Problem is, my Indian blood comes from many tribes all across this continent — so what tribal name should I use? Do I call myself Iroquois-Shawnee-Bear River-Cherokee-Kickapoo-Choctaw-Natchez-Arapaho-Comanche?



Or should I go by French-Mexican-German-Scottish-British?

Or do I call myself Caucasian-Negro-Mongol?



Or do I call myself Native American although I have no Italian blood in me whatsoever?

If I have to identify myself by nationality, I'll go by American, because I was born and raised in America, just as you were. If I must identify myself by mixed cultural background, I choose Earthman.

But don't pretend to lecture me on my preference for "Indian"... I know better than you do, Chief.

— Doc Velocity
Keep in mind being a "real" indian is different then being of indian decent. If you were a true indian you would know that you claim your father's lineage and you would know what to call yourself.

Im from the great Isanti Dacotah Oyate, you are but a mere Pretendian.

Keep in mind that you must add "Mexican" to the list of all the tribe's your claiming to be since the term is actually Spanish slang for the Mexica tribe which all of the country of Mexico was named after. Another slang term for this particular tribe is "Aztec".



posted on Dec, 23 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Isanti_dacotah
It makes me sad that people can be so hatefull and uncaring about the GENOCIDE of human being's and actually try to defend the inhumane murderer's that carried out such evil deed's.

Whoah, whoah, whoah... Who's defending evil deeds?

What ticks me off are the crybabies who lament the poor, poor Indians and black slaves, but who won't acknowledge that GEE the Indians committed genocide and enslaved each other, too, before the White Devil ever arrived. And warring tribes in Africa have committed genocide and slavery on a scale that should sicken anyone who knows their history.

Fact is, they're still committing genocide and enslaving each other in Africa.

Where's the outrage?

Oh, the outrage is being wasted on atrocities committed centuries ago, rather than on atrocities being committed RIGHT NOW.

— Doc Velocity








[edit on 12/23/2009 by Doc Velocity]



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