The majority of Americans came to America in the last century and didn't kill Indians or enslave bl

I find it strange us nasty English are getting the flak,What about the Spanish and Portuguese who were there hundreds of years before us nasty redcoats came over.Here in merry old England 10 year old kids were getting hung for stealing a apple or forced into slavery in the work houses then we have the press ganger's who whisked you off to sea plus we had the black pirates stealing people of the coast of Britain,every country had their fair share of slavery in one form or another.To those plastic paddy's in America stop with the English bashing and stay out of the IRA drinking dens where old men hark back to the good old days,the only problem i have with America is the rap and gun culture which you have spread here.

well my very poor ancestors started out in Germany then moved to Russia during ww2 and after ww2 they moved to America and slowly moved to Oregon witch we are at now we never did own any slaves or killed any native Americans i think there really cool people

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Now...how would you fix it?

Shut down all government assistance programs, shut down all government period for just one month. Lock the doors.

When the smoke clears, bury the millions of dead (after removing their jewelry), and waltz into a brand spankin' new world with millions of job openings, low crime (because the uncontrolled gang wars pretty much wasted the gangs & drug traffic), abundant resources relative to population, low to zero senior population, and drastically reduced automotive emissions (which is great for the environment, right?). Capitalism would spring forth anew, crunching the bones of Marxism underfoot.

The surviving socialists would be beheaded, quartered, dried, and sold as fuel or dog food. A fairy tale ending.


— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Now...how would you fix it?

Shut down all government assistance programs, shut down all government period for just one month. Lock the doors.

When the smoke clears, bury the millions of dead (after removing their jewelry), and waltz into a brand spankin' new world with millions of job openings, low crime (because the uncontrolled gang wars pretty much wasted the gangs & drug traffic), abundant resources relative to population, low to zero senior population, and drastically reduced automotive emissions (which is great for the environment, right?). Capitalism would spring forth anew, crunching the bones of Marxism underfoot.

The surviving socialists would be beheaded, quartered, dried, and sold as fuel or dog food. A fairy tale ending.— Doc Velocity

Glib, but ineffectual.

Is that the best you can do?

reply to post by Chainmaker

Not to be offensive to you, but it seems that you hold reverse-racist views of American history. Your post attempts to take away all the positive actions of whites in American history and only allows for whites to be greedy, thieving, oppressors who were only ever capable of a good deed if they had an ulterior motive.

I don't hold reverse-racist views, i just learned the truth that wasn't taught in school. This country wasn't founded on the principles of freedom for all, just for a few.

You do a disgrace to the hundreds of thousands of men who died in the Civil War fighting for the end of slavery, not for economic reasons. They laid down their lives and without them you would not have the opportunity you have today. Not every soldier in the Civil War was there for righteous reasons, but many abolitionists on the side of the North were, and I wish you could acknowledge that.

I'm very aware of the sacrifice EVERYONE made. Too many times people act like just white people where in the civil war when they weren't. They were in the beginning but not the end. That is the point i'm making.

Again, people need to count their blessings. Every American has so much opportunity compared to most of the rest of the world. What we call poverty is a life of luxury to a large percentage of the world's population

I agree with you here.

I appreciate your premise but you weaken it by citing an untruth as a fact. According to the latest census figures, only 11% of Americans are foreign born.
The title of your thread is misleading in that regard

Originally posted by Daniem
reply to post by gdeed

 

Honestly.. in what backwards place have you heard people beeing angry at american citizens because of what people who came there did hundreds of years ago? Who has this beef with americans?? Do you have a source? Sounds pretty dumb to me, i cant imagine there beeing a big mass of people having beef with living americans because of this.

Slavery was everywhere, not just in america.

[edit on 20/12/2009 by Daniem]

To me as well it sounds dumb that this would exist,but infact..it does. Many people who refuse to think for themselves believe something on the lines of "every white persons grandfather's father used black people as slaves". What is absurd to me is the fact that these people do not know that it was the same black people who sold other blacks into slavery. Not that it mattered ..sorta', they were prisoners of war and were used as slaves in the camp of the victorious tribe anyway. But to answer your question, Who has this beef ? Many many people, have a disdain towards whites just because they are whats left of the culture that enslaved the black people. Fairly simple, it is much deeper, many more reasons, but it is all ignorance to me, to have any ill feelings towards these people. The slave owners have died out. And the irony is, that given the opportunity, im sure many black people would go withdraw some money from the bank to purchase people from a different race and culture out of a shackled line up. To have our own slave ? pssh ofcourse we would do it. So many people who attack on the sole basis of past slavery..are just full of #.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Thoughtful rebuttal.

Care to give it another shot, perhaps even you know, make a passing attempt at correcting?

Is it just that you're upset I pointed out that slavery in America was different than slavery in, say, ancient greece? or are you just irritated that I pointed out that the Confederate states din't secede because the north was calling htem unkind names?

I know my history, chief. I also know propaganda when I see it. You've laced yourself with a fair amount of both, and are repeating the "po' innocent south done got kicked by big ol' mean north fer no reason 'tall!" crap found on such wonderful websites as Stormfront.

reply to post by snipermeister


Huge difference between Spain and England's interaction with hte Americas.

Spain was absolutely brutal. We're talking stuff that would make Marquis de Sade blanch and go "that ain't right man." How bad was it? The Roman Catholic church sensured Columbus for his behavior in Hispaniola. This is the same Roman Catholic church (literally, the same pope and clergy and everything) who were saying that Torquemada was an okay guy, just let him do his thing. Think about it for a moment. This maniac inquisitor is running around torturing and killing thousands in the name of Jesus, but Columbus is worse than that in the eyes of the church.

Then you have de Soto, Cortes, and Pizarro and their wacky, blood-soaked hijinks... Yeah, the spanish were some nasty bastards in the Americas.

The huge thing was, though... they never colonized. They came, they conquered and plundered, then for the most part they went home, leaving some governors and a few totally insane Spanish families to care for the plantations manned by blacks and indians.

The English, on the other hand, were less overtly brutal, but far more methodical and thorough in their eradication of the natives. Why? because they were colonizing. Whereas the Spanish would just say "this land is mine, I'm building a fort up on that hill so I can keep an eye on all you people living here", the English went "this land is mine, you're all going to have to clear out so I can sell this stuff to the people behind me. Move or we'll kill you"

That's why the natives of Mexico, central and south america are so much more numerous than the ones in the US and Canada - they had a lot of brutality thrown at them, but they were never really subject to the systemic ethnic cleansing and genocide foisted on the Indians of territories that the English (and later, the Americans) claimed.

Originally posted by 4nsicphd
I appreciate your premise but you weaken it by citing an untruth as a fact. According to the latest census figures, only 11% of Americans are foreign born.
The title of your thread is misleading in that regard

Millions of foreigners moved here in the early part of the last century (1900s) and every year millions more became/become American citizens. All those foreigners had lots of children, grandchildren, great grand children and on and on and now, those offspring make up a huge part of the America we have today, the America that had "nothing" to do with slavery and killing of native people.
People from every nation in the world make up this huge collection of people called Americans.


www.csmonitor.com...

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Doc Velocity

 

Thoughtful rebuttal.

Care to give it another shot, perhaps even you know, make a passing attempt at correcting?

Is it just that you're upset I pointed out that slavery in America was different than slavery in, say, ancient greece? or are you just irritated that I pointed out that the Confederate states din't secede because the north was calling htem unkind names?

I know my history, chief. I also know propaganda when I see it. You've laced yourself with a fair amount of both, and are repeating the "po' innocent south done got kicked by big ol' mean north fer no reason 'tall!" crap found on such wonderful websites as Stormfront.

dude seriously are you trying to make me laugh myself to death or something?

I COMPLETELY shot down your incorrect and lame assertions that slavery was different in america than anywhere else in history.
the ONLY history you(or I for that matter) KNOW is what has happened in OUR OWN LIFETIME in front of us with OUR OWN EYES,EVERYTHING ELSE is HEARSAY.

Who are you to decide which rapes,murders or enslavement s in history were 'worse' than anyone elses?
I understand you dislike america.fine
I'm not thrilled with it at the moment either but have a little perspective with your delusions.

reply to post by snipermeister


agree 98%
rap sucks.gun culture doesn't.
America has two super powers no other country can touch.

1.Hollywood/mass media-sure other countries can and do make movies and other media but who else comes close?bollywood? yeah right.

2.killing stuff-we kill more stuff by accident than others do on purpose.
which IS bad until you come across folk that need killing.

Originally posted by gdeed
Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by gdeed

The "Vast" majority of Americans had nothing to do with bringing blacks to America. The vast Majority had nothing to do with stealing land or killing Indians.
In fact most people came to America and became Americans to get away from those kinds of atrocities.

What you are saying is like the "Plantation" calling the kettle Black. You can't rewrite atrocities in American history to make it fit neatly into your scrapebook.



[edit on 21-12-2009 by Level X]

The majority of Americans came to America in the last century and didn't kill Indians or enslave blacks?

- Guess they're trying to make up for lost opportunities in Iraq.

*reply to previous couple posts
well this america bashing is fun and all but have you considered that if it wasn't america it'd be england or russia or china or someone else.

And let's not pretend iraq was paradise before we bombed it,they were always fighting iran.

And I don't think afghanistan EVER had peace,if they did they set it on fire and threw it into their enemies tents.

Back to slavery for a second,why does nobody care about the slaves that exist TODAY?
As you read this there are slaves working in cocoa plantations in africa.
(well depending on time zones and such)
where are your tears for them?
but the bad guys there aren't white or american so it's ok.

you aren't mad about the white american atrocities,you are mad that your peoples weren't the ones committing them!

why aren't you going to the ivory coast to rescue the slaves there?

[edit on 22-12-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]sorry still learning site

[edit on 22-12-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


yawn yawn yawn, lots of things were "brutal" several hundred years ago- including the "natives" who had a lovely little line in the sacrifice of kids- now grow a set, step away from the historical victimhood seeking and be thankful you were not born then

Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
Back to slavery for a second,why does nobody care about the slaves that exist TODAY?

EXACTLY. these charlatans do not REALLY care about the old fashioned slavery, they just use it as a chance to hit the "eurocentrics"- if they really cared they would be protesting at various brothels across the world to free those enslaved prostitutes, they would be hitting some of those African hellholes - but they don't because they are week people who try to use a group mentality and blame my white children for non existent crimes

Screw them and their hatred

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
Back to slavery for a second,why does nobody care about the slaves that exist TODAY?

EXACTLY. these charlatans do not REALLY care about the old fashioned slavery, they just use it as a chance to hit the "eurocentrics"- if they really cared they would be protesting at various brothels across the world to free those enslaved prostitutes, they would be hitting some of those African hellholes - but they don't because they are week people who try to use a group mentality and blame my white children for non existent crimes Screw them and their hatred

Nice little rant, and I trust you got your ya-yas out, but the subject of the thread is: "The majority of Americans came to America in the last century and didn't kill Indians or enslave bl...
Yet the two big beefs about Americans are that they killed Indians and stole their land and they brought black slaves here. Baloney!"

Now that you've taken out your straw man, would you like to rejoin the rest of the class?

We are still looking at a scenario where European colonialism brought a new economy to North America applied those rules to the existing economy and swindled the Indians. What was it ? $24 for Manhattan? A transaction that the Natives simply didn't understand...strictly as an example.

And the black slaves upon which the US economy was based for so long...

You don't have top be a Liberal to see that the repercussions are still resonating through North American society. So, we can go on with the handouts that change nothing, or you can apply that present funding in a different manner...something that will put more people in schools, create leadership, end the existing cycles of poverty and abuse.

No...not reparations, but an attempt to integrate everyone into society on an equal basis...as one poster said:"Equal Opportunity". Ya can't fix it all, but what's going on now surly isn't working, right?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


in all fairness I'm certain it was a really cool string of beads
Don't the native leaders of that time bear a bit of responsibility as well?
They had two options.
1.take deal and go away with cool stuff
or
2. have land taken anyways and you go with nothing.

so do you want the trinkets or not?

but have you been to that island lately?
I'm happy with my beads.

everybody forgets the irish and the chinese too.
they were treated badly also.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]

Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

in all fairness I'm certain it was a really cool string of beads
Don't the native leaders of that time bear a bit of responsibility as well?
They had two options.
1.take deal and go away with cool stuff
or
2. have land taken anyways and you go with nothing.
so do you want the trinkets or not?
but have you been to that island lately?
I'm happy with my beads.

Cute...but the concept of ownership was foreign to the Native Americans...they were allowing the new guys to access the resources...not take the lands forever.

And leadership continues to be a problem, doesn't it?