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Science wrong.... again.

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posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by Helmkat
Bad bad science!

We should all be in the trees eating bugs and fruit!

Personally I kinda like science.

Not sure what you have against science OP since without it you probably would of died a long time ago, eaten by a Lion or succumb to an infected tooth.


Because finding far away planets totally saved me from a man-eating lion. Sending rockets to the moon sure fixed my infected tooth!




posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:04 AM
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Once you accept the fact that science is only wrong to prove itself right, then you can enjoy it.

Science and scientists have the capacity to admit fault, scholars once believed the Earth was the center of the universe, everything else revolved around us.

Only under overwhelming evidence and some simple calculations was the idea that the sun was the center of the universe accepted...later to be again proven wrong.

The Andromeda GALAXY was once thought to be a comet-like object, only under close inspection by Mr. Messier was it shown to be something completely different.

It was once widely accepted to perform operations without sterilizing tools or covering your mouth or hands, this has proven to be quite dangerous to patients and long since abandoned by surgeons.

The discovery of penicillin was an accident but has saved countless lives since.

I can almost bet that EVERYTHING you use in your daily life is the result of a good idea using scientific principles and advancing technology.

So yes, science is wrong...again. Not really news to me.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by links234
 


i love how science is used against itself. no other school of thought is anywhere near as self conflicting. and as a sidenote the heavens were an unlocked secret way before the foolishness of popular thought drowned out what was taught to us ...

the only good that has ever come out of science is a method of procedure, but even that gets abused.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by notsympl]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 01:24 AM
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I think the OP's intent was not to bash science itself but rather the narrow minded mentality that the common scientist of today has acquired. Quite often this narrow mindedness comes off as arrogance, and like a virus it spreads, and has become apart of what we call the scientific community (the majority of scientists).

Many things in this universe will only be found when there is an intent to find the unknown, the mysteries of this existence. The scientific mentality of today seems too hesitant in turning over those rocks -- in uncovering knowledge they have not already acquired.

This is what must be opposed. Scientists who have spent the better part of their lives becoming an "expert" -- and are hell bent on keeping it that way.

[edit on 21/12/09 by Navieko]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 01:35 AM
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Regardless if they are right or wrong, it's not a bad thing. That's what a lot of science is. They try to explain our bodies, our world, and our universe. First scientists make a theory, then research that theory. The fact that they discovered that they where wrong, was in fact a great discovery. I mean, it's not like they can just look out their windows and get an up close and personal view of anything in the universe. They had to make criteria of what stars to focus on, because in case you haven't noticed, there are lots and lots of stars in the universe.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by solomons path
 


I know what you're saying but something new may be missed because of these assumptions.
If mainstream science accepts as a general rule that only Earth-like planets orbiting their sun in what's known as "the goldie locks zone" can harbour intelligent advanced lifeforms then they will more than likely be unwilling to look for life on a planet that doesn't fall into this category.

We haven't explored every area of our own planet let alone the universe, I feel it's a little arrogant of scientists to not expect the unexpected. They need to be willing to look at numerous scenarios, not just their model.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by StevesResearch]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by Total Package
but that's ok... because that's what science is all about right? New discoveries... being proven wrong etc etc or so they keep justifying their f#@k ups that way anyway.

So why do people continually use science when trying to debunk UFO's?? something they much less understand than even accept.

I came across this the other day.

edition.cnn.com...



(CNN) -- Astronomers announced this week they found a water-rich and relatively nearby planet that's similar in size to Earth.

While the planet probably has too thick of an atmosphere and is too hot to support life similar to that found on Earth, the discovery is being heralded as a major breakthrough in humanity's search for life on other planets.


What particularly cracks me up though was this line:




for many years, astronomers assumed that planets only would be found orbiting stars that are similar in size to the sun.

Because of that assumption, researchers didn't spend much time looking for planets circling small stars, he said. The discovery of this "watery world" helps debunk the notion that Earth-like planets could form only in conditions similar to those in our solar system.



I make note of that particular point.... because this is exactly the issue I have with Science and anyone who uses it as any sort of measuring tool. I mean.... this is another perfect example of the arrogance of the Scientific community... who were so utterly convinced they were right about the behaviour of the planets ... that they did not even bother to spend any time looking for these planets which could contain life.... until they were once again proven wrong. No doubt they were teaching this crap to up and coming scientists in journals as "gospel" as well.

So why should we trust science at all with anything to do with UFOs or crop circles or much less anything else?


Thanks for this, Total Package. It's time "science" is held to account for its gross ignorance and stupidity. Its arrogance and haughty superiority has rendered it incompetent to provide us with credible, reliable answers to some of the world's most basic questions.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by Navieko
 


"Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."-George Orwell


Science is capable of change. notsympl already stated it's the only realm that is, which helps perfect it.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by Doglord
Hmm perhaps because it was other scientists who challenged the "assumptions" you are making such a big deal about?
Or do you think this planet was discovered by butchers, bakers and candlestick makers?


Hmmm, perhaps you didn't heard about Halton C. Arp, a professional scientist, (late) Edwin Hubble's assistant?

He found so called peculiar galaxies, proving the red shift has nothing to do with distance, hence making the Big Bang theory false...

This of course would be nothing unusual if the mainstream scientists didn't start to ridicule him, silence him, NASA cropped out quasars from his pictures (which are obviously connected to galaxies with a much different 'red shift') and he was denied observatory time...

yes, that is today's science, dogmatic Inquisition filled with arrogant, close minded, corrupted scientists that are scared their dogmas are wrong and are concerned more about their bank accounts and their careers, than the scientific pursuit for the truth...

so, I don't see any point mentioning butchers, bakers and candlestick makers when the real problem are arrogant, corrupted scientists...



[edit on 21-12-2009 by donhuangenaro]

[edit on 21-12-2009 by donhuangenaro]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by links234
reply to post by Navieko
 


"Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."-George Orwell


Science is capable of change. notsympl already stated it's the only realm that is, which helps perfect it.


of course it is, but not until it is financed by corrupted governments and military industrial complex which only goal is profit, power, profit, power, profit, power...



[edit on 21-12-2009 by donhuangenaro]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:42 AM
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This is an example of an "Argument From Ignorance" or "Negative Evidence"

Fist off, Science cannot prove a negative.

For example... Science cannot prove that "God" does not exist, and Science cannot prove that "God" DOES exist Either.

Let me give you an example:

Lets suppose that a "Man" descended from heaven, on a beam of light... he parted the seas, and healed all the sick.

He stopped the sun in the sky, and brought the dead back to life.

Many would claim that this person was god, or God's emissary or Avatar.

Maybe they are right... maybe they are wrong...


Scientifically speaking, This would be untestable, unprovable, and completely outside the bounds of scientific inquiry.

All of the "Miracles" that this man would produce as "Proof" of divinity, are within the technological capabilities of a type 2 or 3 technological civilization.

Complicated Force fields
Gravity manipulators
Advanced Genetic technology.... etc.

"God", being an infinite, omnipotent, super genius of unlimited power, who created the universe... is a completely untestable claim.

EVEN IF IT WERE ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

Science could not be used to PROVE THIS.

And this is the basis of an Argument From Ignorance.


Getting back to the Topic at hand... with the UFO's, is almost the exact same thing.


Science cannot CLAIM that UFO's (Being extraterrestrial or Alien spaceships) do NOT exist... because that KNOWLEDGE would require observation of every point of the universe simultaneously.

Science cannot (Practically) claim that UFO's have NOT visited the Earth, because that would require constant surveillance of every cubic inch of the planet earth.

These types of things, science merely does not comment on... because until you have Proof, verifiable observations, Evidence, and REPEATABLE EXPERIMENTATION... then you are not doing SCIENCE.

And, so far... TO OUR KNOWLEDGE (The general public)... we have not captured any aliens or flying saucers.


Attempting to Prove, OR DISPROVE a Negative... is NOT SCIENCE.

It is religion.

-Edrick



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by Total Package
 


Why are you so utterly hostile to science being wrong? That really is how it works you know. Someone makes a theory based on the current evidence, someone else finds new evidence and destroys or adjusts the initial theory and the whole model becomes more accurate. Eventually it will become so accurate that it is very useful and explanatory.

I get angry with people who are ignorant of how science works, who have a go at science when they are typing on a computer, given to them by science, when they have lights in their home, given to them by science and when they're alive, probably through medical intervention, again invented by science.

Scientists are able to say "we don't know" and because of being able to say that they can constantly discover new things and improve our understanding of everything.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by Total Package
 


Come on..science can be wrong, religion can be wrong, assumptions can be wrong, politicians can be wrong, doctors can be wrong...are we all seeing the common denominator here?

Drum roll......

People.

People can be wrong, sometimes, partly, mostly or totally.

It's not scientist, it's not clerics, it's not one specific group...it's all of us.

We KNOW this about ourselves..don't we?

We have history, a record of deeds and happenings that show us how we are all wrong about all things, at one time or another. (We are often right too)

Never mind our personal histories...i know i've mead a lot of wrong choices and mistakes in my life so far, one or two of them serious ones...i'm sure the same is probably true of each of you reading this post (the one or two that will read it anyway!).

Why then are we shocked or surprised when mistakes and wrong assumptions are made?

I would have thought it was supremely obvious that we are not all knowing, we do not posses the knowledge of the universe..so why do we act as though we have all the answers and are at the pinnacle of knowledge?

It doesn't matter if that's in science, theology, medicine, philosophy, in fact every area and subject that humans have ever delved into is full of errors and incorrect assumptions.

Just because something works in ways that have been known for centuries, does not negate the fact that there is probably an alternative way(s) to get the same effect, from the same material at an astoundingly greater efficiency...but because of wrong assumptions...the route to the potential discovery is a cul-de-sac.

I believe this is true for most of what we think we know.

Arrogance leads to ignorance. Closed minds lead to developmental stagnation.

All that is required for progression is desire to achieve a goal, an open mind, a healthy imagination, and the realisation that the current methodologies we employ in our lives, may not be the best way to achieve certain goals...

Robotically repeating centuries old methods and practices, and holding those as sacrosanct, doesn't help us along our road to knowledge (sceptics take note) and progression.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by donhuangenaro
 





financed by corrupted governments and military industrial complex which only goal is profit, power, profit, power, profit, power...


Shouldn't that be Powder, profit, power, powder, profit, power...



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 05:09 AM
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Come on it's not like they disproved evolution or a theory that science holds dearly, to use the word in the OP it was just a "notion" and scientists can be just as anthropocentric in thinking other solar systems might be like our own, as contactees who draw aliens who are bipedal and surprisingly human looking.

And they didn't NOT look at the other stars, they were just setting priorities where they thought they'd get the best results first. So I think this is not a great example of where science is really "wrong", but the sun going around the earth issue, that IS a great example of where science was totally wrong.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Arbitrageur]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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The thing about computers was said in the 70ies, and the prediction proved to be correct for the next 35 years. (Not to mention that the guy wasn't a scientist)

I wonder how long the OP would use a computer if he had only a command line interface and a database application, and would double his electricity bill and take up an entire room in his house.

Your computer has replaced your phone, your TV, your Radio and your Notepad. And while it is practical to have all that in one device, I doubt the OP uses his computer for anything he would actually *need* a computer for.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 06:24 AM
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I completely understand where OP is comming from here. I for one do not believe that the current scientific establishment have the TOOLS let alone the freedom of thought to actualy identifiy a life form that doesnt conform to a preconcieved idea of what one might look like.
I have been thinking about this for a long time. It seems to me that scientists expect, and assume, more than they know and learn by observation, with regard to alien life and the possibilities therein. They think that certain chemicals are required for life, and so they search the galaxy with thier instruments set to what they believe will be the tell tales evidence for life. But its a broken system, because it relies on arrogance . Arrogance that says we know what we are looking for arrogance even when we cant damned well find it half the time. They ignore the variables that they cannot account for because otherwise they would cease thier looking and have to admit that at our current level, we are incapable of even imagining the myriad of possible formats intelligent life could take, and therefore are incapable of surmising what evidence there may be in the cosmos, for the existance of these unusual and unknown life types.
All the knowlege we posses is based on our expeirence of life, but it seems bizzare that we insist that life conform to our limited existance. Theres no accounting for energy beings in scientific exploration, nor accounting for silicone based life, or anything other than flesh, blood, by products we can read and understand as a chemical beacon in an atmosphere. Its bunk ! We look for radio waves , even though for all we know the communication methods adopted by spacefaring civilisations may not even be recordable by our technology!
I am not saying that scientists as a whole are dumb, obviously they know more about the general truths of the universe than most, but they have also been indoctrinated (some of them) into a state which denies the existance of things that science cannot explain, and that is simply antagonistic. Its almost as if they have been set on a path that conflicts entirely with the idealology of science. Learning by observation, not assumption.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 07:45 AM
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Science was designed to disprove itself. It's the only way of keeping checks and balances in an arbitrary fashion. That's the beauty of it. Of course scientists are going to be arrogant, they're a gigantic collective of the brightest minds in the world. Every profession has it's "elite" if you will. The problem is, anyone who can make a living off of crafting half-truths, and untested theories...is pretty elite.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
I for one do not believe that the current scientific establishment have the TOOLS let alone the freedom of thought to actualy identifiy a life form that doesnt conform to a preconcieved idea of what one might look like.....


That's not really true. There are plenty of scientist working on finding life here on this very planet that challenges our notion of life and how it can survive. The word extremophile comes to mind.


They think that certain chemicals are required for life, and so they search the galaxy with thier instruments set to what they believe will be the tell tales evidence for life...


I think most of the time, scientist will mention that they are looking for "life as we know it", so it makes sense to look for things that we are familiar with. I don't think many scientist would tell you they know 100% what is required for life to begin, but it makes sense to start looking based on the limited amount of what we know...does it not?


But its a broken system, because it relies on arrogance . Arrogance that says we know what we are looking for arrogance even when we cant damned well find it half the time. They ignore the variables that they cannot account for because otherwise they would cease thier looking and have to admit that at our current level, we are incapable of even imagining the myriad of possible formats intelligent life could take, and therefore are incapable of surmising what evidence there may be in the cosmos, for the existance of these unusual and unknown life types.


You have a rather limited and ignorant view on this, but it comes across as arrogance too....hmm? I don't know where to begin to comment on the above quote it is riddled with so much ignorant absurdity.


All the knowlege we posses is based on our expeirence of life, but it seems bizzare that we insist that life conform to our limited existance.


I didn't know the "we insist" life conforms to our limited knowledge and existence. When you say "we" are you speaking for the entire scientific community? Becasue you don't know jack about science and I think they should be able to find a better spokesman than you. I haven't really heard science pound assumptions of life into the mainstream, I hear the opposite all the time...scientist saying that we don't really understand life here yet, and that there could be things we can't imagine out there.

But, how do you start to look for what you can't imagine? I think the best way is to start by looking for what you know. I mean, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and science has to learn the basics of our condition before learning how something lives in another galaxy under a different set of chemical bonds.

So basically, you shun science because you grew up watching science fiction, reading fiction, watching the Jetsons every Saturday morning and you all disappointed with reality?

Damn those arrogant scientist......damn them straight to hell for not looking for what they don't even know to look for, lol.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by watcher73

Originally posted by Total Package
I see. So because the article quoted what he said... but didn't use the correct punctuation..... it's obviously all made up to make science look bad?

Gotta love the way you science scumbags try and squirm out of having to be answerable for anything.



Oh I get it... we only use Occam's razor when it suits us right? Pathetic.


Who is we? I never use Occams razor. Its not a law. It's Occams opinion.

There are more than a few instances in that article that arent marked with quotations. I am just wondering why.

You are forgetting that it was still science and a scientist who discovered this planet while you sit and claim "SCIENCE IS WRONG AGAIN!" Who is to say they arent wrong now?

Wheres that slap and shake button mods?


I have an idea. The scientists patent and restrict usage of any scientific advances so that Luddites like this troll don't get to use them.
Einstein was wrong? OK, no GPS for you. Or your car, or the police who protect you. Or the airplanes you fly in.
Evolution is wrong? OK. No vaccines for you since they are formulated to work against evolved viruses.
QM is wrong? OK. There goes your TV and cell phone and PET scan/MRI/CAT scan at the hospital. And your computer.
Let's send these trolls back to the dark ages, or maybe the stone age where they won't have to worry about exo-planets being found.




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