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Science wrong.... again.

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posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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Bad bad science!

We should all be in the trees eating bugs and fruit!

Personally I kinda like science.

Not sure what you have against science OP since without it you probably would of died a long time ago, eaten by a Lion or succumb to an infected tooth.




posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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Science doesn't know how light works.

I don't think many people understand this thread at all. It's not about hating or liking science as if you're on a team...

It's more like, if science is always evolving why say anti-gravity (or other technology etc) is impossible? Gravity is the only thing that can bend light without slowing it down and we don't know how light works. Connect the dots.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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Yea since they found life on Earth, with a Earth size Sun it would only be logical to look first at similar size type stars, plus there are so many Stars, first check the ones you know have been found to have Earth type planets and life.
Then you say that must of been fluke, maybe there are more Earth type planets on a differnt size Type Star.

Ever try and find needle in hay stack, has been done but there is method, or several methods.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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The problem here is too often scientists make assumptions, which is a narrow-minded thing to do. Based on these assumptions they make the mistake of researching something with a preconceived idea of how it will work based on only a small number of examples and accept that as the general rule.
We need more open-mindedness in the scientific community, especially when dealing with Astronomy. Poor research is studying something to fit your model for how it will work rather than following the evidence and seeing where it takes you.

Space should be a journey of discovery not looked at with the attitude of "we should be seeing this here or that there". It should be approached with the attitude of "Let's see what we find here" instead.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in science and we have a lot to be thankful for because of it, but I feel even more discoveries could be made without the assumptions.

The universe is a vast mysterious place, how can any of us assume that the rules that apply to our little corner of it applies everywhere?
Scientists assumed the world was flat once and that the Earth was the centre of the universe. It took someone who actually did some unbiased research to confirm that this notion was wrong. How are many of todays scientists any different? A planet must have water to sustain life and have any possibility of harbouring intelligent life? How do they know that for certain? "Life as we know it" perhaps, but us humans we don't really know much do we? We still don't know much about what sits at the bottom of our oceans, yet we can make a confident claim like this? Who's to say that an alien species hasn't developed on some alien world with no water? They could have a totally different make up that doen't require water, their bodies could be reliant on dust for all we know. While everyone's studying the pretty, watery world for life we could be overlooking the harsh looking one teaming with it because we "assumed".

Sir Arthur Eddington summed it up pretty well in my opinion. Just look at my signature.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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I completely get what you are trying to say OP. But I think you are taking it a bit to far. We wouldn't be where we are today without science. Science is a never-ending process. You don't have to be called a 'scientist' to do 'science.'

Sure, there are some knuckle-head so-called scientists that are arrogant about their work to the point of ignoring other possibilities, but that's the case in every profession.

Do we really know everything that goes on in the scientific community? I mean, what is it you think makes the headlines?: a lot of times, it's not the conformist one following a study that's been done over and over, it's the ones that DO look outside the known boundaries and DO happen to STUMBLE across something special.

There will always be an "accepted" model for the way things work that will be considered the correct theory. Always, that's just how it works. But that doesn't mean that it really IS right. And I promise you not everyone will agree, and those theories will always be tested.

So I see what you are saying, and it can be frustrating to watch some of the morons in science world, but do you really want to base your argument on a poorly written, completely over-generalized CNN article?



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by Phlynx
May I ask you why we should trust religion with anything relating to real life, when they haven't even been able to prove there own beliefs?

At least science can come up with proof. Religion has had some interesting things happen, but science has had way more proof behind there "strange things".

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Phlynx]


Science has become its own religion based on the bible of Newton and Einstein. Anytime "regular joe" scientists are confronted with something their bible says cant exist they simply regurgitate their scripture instead of considering the possibility of new ideas. Just like real religion, its much easier to quote your religious text than think for yourself.

If Pope Hawkings or Einstein said that faster than light speed travel (for example) is going to hell, many scientists would just nod their heads and go back to work never thinking about faster than light speed travel ever again.

The real problem with people treating Science as a religion is that Science is constantly changing and evolving. What we think now is not necessarily what we will think in the future.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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i think you thought you could use this article to criticize science but i don't think that you actually understood it and in the end it backfired on you.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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I think it should be:

Religion wrong.... again.


We're not the chosen ones ya'll.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by ts117
Anytime "regular joe" scientists are confronted with something their bible says cant exist they simply regurgitate their scripture instead of considering the possibility of new ideas.

Can you give us an objective example of this happening?


The real problem with people treating Science as a religion is that Science is constantly changing and evolving.

And isn't that just what you did? Treated science as a religion? I'm glad that at the end of your rant you realized the two aren't comparable. Better late than never I guess.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by Total Package
 


Don't trust science. Don't go to school, either, for that matter, or read books.

Just don't do it.. More for me =)



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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Where does the OP think we would be as a society without Science? If you think Religion is a more reasonable answer, lets conduct an experiment (Yes I know, i said the E word, you might actually learn a thing or two, oh how scary!)

You can sit and pray all day, and live your life EXACTLY how the bible says you should. A true literal interpretation of your lord and savior.

While you do this, I will live my life by reason, logic, and everything else science teaches us.

After 10 years, let's do an interview and see what the results are.

Anytime your ready, let me know.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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People who support science can only support it on what they know ,
If they dont know they cant support it , Thats where science is sneaky ,
i agree , scientists are always debunking each other ,its in their culture ,
Believe nothing what they tell you and half of what you see , its a never ending circle of shi* throwing , there are good and bad in everything , Its easy , LIFE IS BOUND TO BE EVERYWHERE ,let the scientists break it down about why and how , but i can never take scientists on there word for the EVERYTHING . They will find new things all the time, i say let them get on with it, but they are not GODS ,they still dont know everything ,but let them do their job, i would hate to be in there shoes ,thats for sure , Its a hard profession to keep up with, Even Einstein was debunked here and there , scientist need to remain humble as a developing career unfolds , And im sure non scientists will be more willing to understand , Cool Thread S&F !



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Total Package
 


Spot on, I totally agree with you. This is the same thinking when it comes to our history, physics and everything else. They can't think of it because they are taught to believe it's only one way. This fits exactly to the Pyramids where they say it had to be the egyptian pharoh of such and such time because it fits the 5 thousand year time line of Western history. When in fact there is increased evidence that it could be at least 10,000 years old. I alot of astronomers thought at one time that single star systems where the norm and its not. double and triple star systems are more common. Also since we have been finding massive planets (super gas giants/brown dwarfs (at least 7 to 9 jupiter masses) and super earths) may be the norm also. Since gas giants and large planets are being found, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that moons of these giants including brown dwarfs could harbor habitable moons. Can you imagine (just look at Avatar) a habitable moon circling a gas giant, heck it's possible that the moon would be tidal locked. Or a planet that is habitable but 6 times the size of earth. They see what they have or got and then try to fit the theory to fit what they see or saw instead of doing what they are supposed to do and theorize the possibilities.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by Total Package
 


Spot on, I totally agree with you. This is the same thinking when it comes to our history, physics and everything else. They can't think of it because they are taught to believe it's only one way. This fits exactly to the Pyramids where they say it had to be the egyptian pharoh of such and such time because it fits the 5 thousand year time line of Western history. When in fact there is increased evidence that it could be at least 10,000 years old. I alot of astronomers thought at one time that single star systems where the norm and its not. double and triple star systems are more common. Also since we have been finding massive planets (super gas giants/brown dwarfs (at least 7 to 9 jupiter masses) and super earths) may be the norm also. Since gas giants and large planets are being found, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that moons of these giants including brown dwarfs could harbor habitable moons. Can you imagine (just look at Avatar) a habitable moon circling a gas giant, heck it's possible that the moon would be tidal locked. Or a planet that is habitable but 6 times the size of earth. They see what they have or got and then try to fit the theory to fit what they see or saw instead of doing what they are supposed to do and theorize the possibilities.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by Total Package
 


You know, what's scary is the utter ignorance of your post. What's even scarier, as evidenced by all the stars you've received, are all the people who are seemingly aligned with your very flawed "logic", that science is essentially an unnecessary tool in discovering and studying the worlds around us, including our own.

What do you ( or any of the people here who are in concurrence with your post) propose we use as a tool for measurement then?

What you may be failing to comprehend and realize is that the very scientists you're bashing- you know, the ones who study the stars and such- could very likely be the ones who will discover alien life on another world. You do realize that this is one thing many scientists are actively trying to do, right? And when that does happen, what will you say then? Nothing I suppose.

I only hope that your ignorance stems from the fact that you're just a young and confused kid and that your opinion of the world is just based on a lack of reading the right material.

Do you know who Carl Sagan is? Do yourself a favor and learn about him and pick up one of his books.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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Richard Feynman is good, too.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261372060&sr=1-1



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by StevesResearch
The problem here is too often scientists make assumptions, which is a narrow-minded thing to do. Based on these assumptions they make the mistake of researching something with a preconceived idea of how it will work based on only a small number of examples and accept that as the general rule.
We need more open-mindedness in the scientific community, especially when dealing with Astronomy. Poor research is studying something to fit your model for how it will work rather than following the evidence and seeing where it takes you.

Space should be a journey of discovery not looked at with the attitude of "we should be seeing this here or that there". It should be approached with the attitude of "Let's see what we find here" instead.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in science and we have a lot to be thankful for because of it, but I feel even more discoveries could be made without the assumptions.

The universe is a vast mysterious place, how can any of us assume that the rules that apply to our little corner of it applies everywhere?
Scientists assumed the world was flat once and that the Earth was the centre of the universe. It took someone who actually did some unbiased research to confirm that this notion was wrong. How are many of todays scientists any different? A planet must have water to sustain life and have any possibility of harbouring intelligent life? How do they know that for certain? "Life as we know it" perhaps, but us humans we don't really know much do we? We still don't know much about what sits at the bottom of our oceans, yet we can make a confident claim like this? Who's to say that an alien species hasn't developed on some alien world with no water? They could have a totally different make up that doen't require water, their bodies could be reliant on dust for all we know. While everyone's studying the pretty, watery world for life we could be overlooking the harsh looking one teaming with it because we "assumed".

Sir Arthur Eddington summed it up pretty well in my opinion. Just look at my signature.


While this is true to a point, you fail to take into account why these assumptions are made. A scientist's "assumptions" are based on hard data and accepted/tested theory. No scientist I've ever known simply dismisses anything new. If the data/evidence is there to support these new claims, I don't know one scientist that will discard this new line of thought. The problem is with psuedo-scientists making claims that don't stand up to rigorous testing, then turning and proclaiming some sort of censorship. If you, or anyone, wants new ideas to be looked at seriously they have to put in the work and have a data set that stands up to modeling. This also goes for, the standard on sites like this of, a scientist in one field to postulate a hypothesis in a totally unrelated field without the proper data or backround to make said claim (like the anthropologist/archeologist that claims aliens spliced our DNA based on wall art without knowing a thing about genetics or how to go about disproving their hypothesis).



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by ts117

Originally posted by Phlynx
May I ask you why we should trust religion with anything relating to real life, when they haven't even been able to prove there own beliefs?

At least science can come up with proof. Religion has had some interesting things happen, but science has had way more proof behind there "strange things".

[edit on 20-12-2009 by Phlynx]


Science has become its own religion based on the bible of Newton and Einstein. Anytime "regular joe" scientists are confronted with something their bible says cant exist they simply regurgitate their scripture instead of considering the possibility of new ideas. Just like real religion, its much easier to quote your religious text than think for yourself.

If Pope Hawkings or Einstein said that faster than light speed travel (for example) is going to hell, many scientists would just nod their heads and go back to work never thinking about faster than light speed travel ever again.

The real problem with people treating Science as a religion is that Science is constantly changing and evolving. What we think now is not necessarily what we will think in the future.


The only people I've ever heard say what you just did . . . are fundi-christians and those who lack any understanding on the scientific method (or the work that goes into testing and how accurate theorhetical models actually are).

As you were asked before . . . can you show an actual example of this happening in the scientific community that doesn't come from an evangelical op-ed?



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by Total Package
but that's ok... because that's what science is all about right? New discoveries... being proven wrong etc etc or so they keep justifying their f#@k ups that way anyway.

So why do people continually use science when trying to debunk UFO's?? something they much less understand than even accept.

I came across this the other day.

edition.cnn.com...



(CNN) -- Astronomers announced this week they found a water-rich and relatively nearby planet that's similar in size to Earth.

While the planet probably has too thick of an atmosphere and is too hot to support life similar to that found on Earth, the discovery is being heralded as a major breakthrough in humanity's search for life on other planets.


What particularly cracks me up though was this line:




for many years, astronomers assumed that planets only would be found orbiting stars that are similar in size to the sun.

Because of that assumption, researchers didn't spend much time looking for planets circling small stars, he said. The discovery of this "watery world" helps debunk the notion that Earth-like planets could form only in conditions similar to those in our solar system.



I make note of that particular point.... because this is exactly the issue I have with Science and anyone who uses it as any sort of measuring tool. I mean.... this is another perfect example of the arrogance of the Scientific community... who were so utterly convinced they were right about the behaviour of the planets ... that they did not even bother to spend any time looking for these planets which could contain life.... until they were once again proven wrong. No doubt they were teaching this crap to up and coming scientists in journals as "gospel" as well.

So why should we trust science at all with anything to do with UFOs or crop circles or much less anything else?


I completely understand and sympathize with your frustration. However, this isn't a case of, "The scientists totally didn't think!" First of all, realize that you're getting this information from the media (where does most info come from these days? Do you believe most info?). Secondly, you need to realize that it's not science itself that is wrong, but that scientists, ones being human, have many issues.

Scientists are so-called by society. However, very few scientists are actually scientists. Most so-called scientists are actually closet politicians, businessmen, and the like. You gotta realize that these people -do- search wherever and whenever FREQUENTLY. The media is not the ALL-KNOWING SOURCE of ALL KNOWLEDGE. The media is actually a brain-training tool. It's like the one webpage amongst the entire internet of information. The media is a culture. You are born and grow within it and that's all you know and you are never given a chance.

Scientists know how to find things and look for things and determine the truth (somewhat). However, there are many reasons why not revealing everything they find out is good for them. For one, knowledge is power in society. Whoever has the information has the upper hand. Also, you will find that scientists often laugh as people run with one of their pieces of information and make up this whole crazy scenario based on a complete lie. Meaning, a scientist will come up with a theory to explain something, knowing full well that their theory is way out of line (but airing on the side of chance as well as understanding the reality of possibility, they will never rule out something that is logically impossible) and then they will sit back and silently laugh as people run away with their farce. This doesn't mean that scientists are just making these theories up for this purpose, but it turns out like this in the long run.

I personally think there are much worse things to be screwing up about... I personally think there are much better examples of how scientists screw up science so badly that people are following false-theory and inevitably returning to paganism. Look as technology grows! Scientists will begin to overwhelm the minds of young people until finally, when all is said and done, science will turn into the worship of the different aspects of life instead of the creator of life and the appreciation of life. Biologists of the future will worship gods of birth and sex. Geologists of the future will worship gods of the earth, the sun, the moon, and the stars; of the oceans and the seas, of all the different types of lands and their abodes will be with them. Chemists will worship the gods of alchemy (duh) and what will be perceived as "magic" (Due to more and more specialization and less generalization, one who specializes in chemistry will be seen as a god of chemistry their work will seem as magic to people of other specialties). Physicists will worship the gods of energy, form, lightness, darkness, space, perceived-time (once they figure out that time is not a dimension as we perceived it, but is really the canvas upon which the picture of life is painted).

When it is all said and done, yes, you are correct, scientists these days are contributing to an insanity and their lies will amount to the destruction of humanity. However, be careful not to put down science itself and be careful to realize that the media had its hand in changing the information you received.

Continue the fight against stupidity and recklessness.



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