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Just Say NO to Fed Health Plan

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posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Anti-Evil
Just say no to a TAX, Just say no to a microchip, Just say no to ______.
We have been saying NO... they are not listening... and I find it very interesting that Rothchilds financial interests mean so much to Obama... dont you... also those of maurice strong and Al Gore.... boo hoo ... it appears someone is violating his oath. may not even be eligible for office... this is going to be very bad




By Barbara Owens on May 15th, 2009 at 5:12 am

Taxation Without Representation, by agents and assigns from a foreign country (the federal U.S.). Public Officials with no Registration, within 15 days of election or appointment, No insurance bond attached to the filing. No Office VACANT!! If they are pretending to be in office, pretending, impersonating an officer or an official. A crime punishable by imprisonment and must pay back all salary and other compensations to the Republic immediately. This also includes Judges who have not registered either. This is how to correct our Judicial system.

RE: Red Amendment(14th Amendment), Pass the Word. So Saith I. As one we are Victorious.
Check out all elected officials using Foia(Freedom of information act), the US Marshals can arrest them and seize assets including off shore bank accounts, monies that have been stolen from the Republic pretending to be in office. This I do Swear to be true and correct.


I think she said it all. It was from another forum and she was pissed. If we check their oaths of office and file criminal charges and demand the U.S. Marshalls service arrest them for treason/impersonating an officer, I can only imagine it would have to be done. Wouldn't you? The Marshalls as well take an oath. Maybe we should check into this. In each state.




posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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It seems to me that the folks who are most vocal against any kind of Federal Health care overall or public health option are those that already have a form of health insurance that works for them and that they either have provided for them or can afford. I think these discussions can become much clearer if the people who argue against any type of government health care system offer their status as insured or uninsured. Believe me folks, whatever bill is passed and signed by our president will not end the debate on health care in America. As time goes on, health insurance will become more and more expensive and less available to all which will eventually widen the audience to a tipping point.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 


You didn't but I think it is all connected.
A conspiratorial effort to maintain a status quo of sick people. This is reprehensible. I support any measures including this new health care plan that takes a little more power from insurance companies and shines a light on where the big money is going.

I wanted a public option and I think those fighting tooth and nail against that choice are like people who will cut off their nose to spite their face.

A comprehensive attack was needed to reverse damage already done by incentives for being sick rather than the reverse. It would have meant a healthier stronger nation, mentally alert and able to innovate, invent and produce verses the bunch of pathetically ill we have begging for help and in no position to help anyone least of all themselves.

Welcome to America...home of the sick.



I completely agree with your take. I also think its less about the health care industry than it is about agribusiness in this country - which is also a tremendously strong political lobby. We like to pay "farmers" to grow stuff we don't need - like corn, cotton, and tobacco as well as huge quantities of corn-fed animals. We've become addicted to the products made from these materials at the same time food companies have gotten rich off of them.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Excuse my ignorance here, and be gentle with me as it is not my intention to trolletc. but...

Why are you all against something that will benefit millions of fellow americans??

Why do you appear callous in this regard??

I'd love to know...



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by mrsoul2009
 



I am currently without a job and no insurance, don't need it. I am educated enough to understand medicine just like those people 150 years ago. I use Colloidal Silver every day at 30 ppm, and take a few vitamins. I ride bicycle to most places and am very careful what I eat. I recently dislocated my thumb and had a chiropractor friend set it for free. I may have also broken a bone in my hand, but oh well, I will live with it. I also have an internist friend so if I need anything really bad, he would help me. What you do not understand is that there are thousands of private practioners who are being put out of business by this legislature. They are pissed because they are being forced into an unethical situation.

THAT is what bothers me. People don't understand their responsibility to themselves and their families. Make arrangements, find a doctor who wil work with you outside the system, F*cK the system, it is bullsh)t anyway.

The Federal Government has NO enumerated powers to dictate to US, we the people. THAT again is what I do not understand, what don't people get about that. WE have dominion, right, authority.

I am also a few years shy of 50.


[edit on 20-12-2009 by daddio]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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Too bad the spineless Democrats caved into the Socialist baiting and fear mongering -
Now its a corporate goodie bag - lets hope there are some consumer protections -

or scrap it and ram the good stuff thru



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 
Bravo! Before the shooting starts, it is best to attempt to disgrace them before the LAW! If they have violated the constitution, then in my opinion, they are guilty of treason. Especially if they have knowingly violated it. (I have no doubt that every member of Congress that voted for this bill know they were violating the constiution by doing so.) The question now is, How do we legally hold them accountable, charge them, and bring them to trial on charges of treason before they are able to dystroy the country?
This is not a friviolous question. We need to know the procedures for this.
I, for one, would love to get Marion Berry and Blanche Lincoln to stand trial.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 


UK article:
"There'll Be Nowhere To Run From The New World Government"

www.telegraph.co.uk...



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by mrsoul2009
It seems to me that the folks who are most vocal against any kind of Federal Health care overall or public health option are those that already have a form of health insurance that works for them and that they either have provided for them or can afford. I think these discussions can become much clearer if the people who argue against any type of government health care system offer their status as insured or uninsured.


Since you asked:
I pay dearly for insurance for myself and my wife. I am dissatisfied with the plan and extremely unhappy with the premiums. I am even less happy with the concept of government intervention.

When was the last time government `fixed' something? If you want to know how the healthcare bill will look, you already have an example: Medicare. I'll add social security for good measure.

I'm not arguing that there's a serious problem. I'm arguing that the answer is NOT the government. Especially the Best Congress Money Can Buy.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by benoni
Excuse my ignorance here, and be gentle with me as it is not my intention to trolletc. but...

Why are you all against something that will benefit millions of fellow americans??

Why do you appear callous in this regard??


Good question. We Americans sometimes forget there are other countries


I can't speak for the other billions but I don't have anything against helping others. Unfortunately the others who are going to be helped include insurers, politicians, big pharma, illegal immigrants, and who knows who else.

The system as it exists is horribly broken. The only people who won't agree with that are the Congresscritters, who get their own special healthcare and don't have to pay for it like us proles. Many have suggested they wade in the mud with us but they haven't the courtesy to respond.

The argument is less about helping others than how the system gets modified (fixed is too strong a word).

In certain instances, the non-insured do better than the insured as far as treatment. But I can see where this would appear callous to people outside the US.

Thanks for asking and being involved.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Evil
 


No thanks. I am gonna go ahead and think critically for myself. Good luck with the group think.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 


Just say no, because thats the only solution conservatives can come up with. Failing private healthcare system? Just say no. Regulation to loose speculative policies on wallstreet. Just say no. Basically, if it doesnt involve cutting out programmes or tax cuts, its a "no" from conservatives.

No solutions, no leadership. Just say "no".



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by mrsoul2009
It seems to me that the folks who are most vocal against any kind of Federal Health care overall or public health option are those that already have a form of health insurance that works for them and that they either have provided for them or can afford.

Wrong...I don't have any such plan & I still oppose any Federal Health Plan because they have to violate the Law to even propose any. It's the same with any Federal regulations on any of our Rights...In the 1st Amendment, what part of "Congress shall make no Law abridging..." & in the 2nd Amendment, what part of "shall not be infringed" do they have trouble comprehending? Dont' do it means don't do it...but they've been doing it for several generations.

The United States Government is nothing less than a criminal consortium of foreign invaders that have usurped our Republic of Sovereign States. They are not a government by Law, they are a government of impostors & of foreign origin; Literally, Illegal Aliens! The usurped control by stealth at least since the alleged ratification of the 14th Amendment. There was no standing military because the Founding Forefathers knew that the 2nd Amendment establishing militias & armed citizenry could repel any foreign military invasion. But since the Civil "War" (which was not a war because Congress could not lawfully declare one), our Republic was gone in Law & the buildup of military began with the eventual goal to use it on the Citizens.


Originally posted by benoni
Excuse my ignorance here, and be gentle with me as it is not my intention to trolletc. but...
Why are you all against something that will benefit millions of fellow americans??
Why do you appear callous in this regard??
I'd love to know...

To be honest, provisions in that Reform will actually cause widespread death. We oppose it to save lives, not end them. To go along with an illegal government that has no regard whatsoever for the Citizens are the ones being callous. Thank you for at least being honest enough to admit ignorance & seeking to Deny Ignorance...Heh! Like the way I slipped in the ATS motto there?

As Will Rogers had said:

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.

So on that note I'd better admit that I don't know everything either...



Originally posted by daddio
The Federal Government has NO enumerated powers to dictate to US, we the people. THAT again is what I do not understand, what don't people get about that. WE have dominion, right, authority.

Actually, the Feds only have the Powers enumerated in the Constitution itself and nothing else. Compare that with the 9th & 10th Amendments that restricts the States from only a very few Powers...From there the Powers come back to the People.

Hold on, did I just say "back to the People?" I sure did! In the Preamble, it's specified that (excerpted):

We the People of the United States...
...do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That's right...All Political Power originates from the People & it's delegated through the Federal & State governments & comes back full circle. What We the People have delegated to our various levels of Government, We the People can also take away, as a Natural Right & by Natural Law.

In essence, the main body of the Constitution forms a "contract of employment" with our various levels of government. You don't think so? Do you have your Social Security Card? Not the original one that was issued when your Birth Ceritficate was registered, but have you requested a new card since then? There will be a number in the bottom corner of the back side of the card...That is your Employer Identification Number! We are the employers, they are the employees & they are lawfully bound to obey that contract by the Oath of Office that all Officers must swear/affirm; One particular phrase that's universal among all of the differing Oaths of Office is to "defend & uphold the Constitution." They're doing a real bang-up job of that now, aren't they?
Once any violation of the Constitution has been committed, the offfending Officer has immediately self-revoked the Lawful Authority to act in the name of the Office and furthermore rendered that particular action as legally null & void.

The Bill of Rights, ratified with the Constitutuion & as a part of the whole, are specific limitations on what the government is allowed to do...The 9th Amendment also shows that the Rights listed in the Bill of Rights is not a complete list. The other Rights We the People have make up the bulk of American Common Law & occassional rulings from the Supreme Court; The SCOTUS was Constitutionally delegated the Power of Constitutional Interpretation, but the employers (We the People) have the ultimate first & final authority on all Political Powers that were delegated.

With all of the constitutional violations that have been coming out of the Federal Government for over 130 years, can there be any doubt that they're nothing but a consortium of criminals, acting as impostors? However, I've been seeing indications that many States are taking steps to invoke their delegated their stolen Powers from the Feds...Just a look around ATS & links provided to news sources to see a few instances.


Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
The question now is, How do we legally hold them accountable, charge them, and bring them to trial on charges of treason before they are able to dystroy the country?

Very good question...Initially, the only answer I could think of is a large group of Citizens making a Citizens' Arrest under the Law. But I also realize that large groups of people are going to put them on edge immediately & may cause them to call for trained gurads & initiate violence. It's my desire to avoid large scale violence if that's humanly possible.

Then I read daddio's post up above & that seems like the way to go...Prove it sufficiently (through the Freedom of Information Act) for enough Law Enforcement Officers (who still abide by their own Oaths of Office) to perform the arrests. If the FOIA information shows evidence of proof that they're imposters, then it can be done (relatively) peacfully without the need for large groups. Mind that, if the FOIA info is true, it really shouldn't be much trouble for even State level Officers to do the arrests...Heck, the way States have been locking horns with the Feds lately, we might even get a pretty good group of willing volunteers so that we don't have to invoke their own Oaths against them. The real truth here is that, if the FOIA info indicates that they're imposters, then not even the Constitutuion can grant them any of its stated immunities against arrest!


Originally posted by pumpkinorange
reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 

UK article:
"There'll Be Nowhere To Run From The New World Government"

If there's nowhere to to run then what other recourse is there, but to Act...Right?



Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 

Just say no, because thats the only solution conservatives can come up with. Failing private healthcare system? Just say no. Regulation to loose speculative policies on wallstreet. Just say no. Basically, if it doesnt involve cutting out programmes or tax cuts, its a "no" from conservatives.

No solutions, no leadership. Just say "no".

That's a pretty pat answer...Did you even read the intent behind the title of this thread? It's not as much saying "no" to Health Care Reform as it is to say "no" to Federal intervention on something best left to the States & the People; Refer to the 9th & 10th Amendments of the Bill of Rights.

Besides, if there's to be sufficient & efficient Health Care that will include everyone equally, then the States would be able to administer it better over the population of merely one State, rather than have an already-over-bloated Federal Government try to manage for a population over 300 million. Or haven't you already noticed how bad the Feds screw up everything they touch?

Besides, I never claimed to be conservative or liberal...Democrat or Republican. I have, in fact, already stated my political leanings in various ATS threads in the past. Both of the major parties seek to bloat the government...Both parties will attempt total control over every aspect of life...They use different methods & philosophies to accomplish that goal, but it is the same goal. I'm more a student of history & Law than anything else. I don't give one whit about the political philosophies that have already driven our country to the verge of utter collapse.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by benoni
Excuse my ignorance here, and be gentle with me as it is not my intention to trolletc. but...

Why are you all against something that will benefit millions of fellow americans??

Why do you appear callous in this regard??

I'd love to know...

Health care reform is needed. What people are against is the method. We don't think this mess will work. Most of us are convinced it will make matters worse. The gov. running programs historically makes them much worse, not better.

We need some health care reform, but we don't need this!



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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I hope this doesn't de-rail this thread but I was thinking about some of the responses here and how things are connected. What we are dealing with is really a huge bait and switch program.
TPTB are taking an issue that a large number of people can agree with, like health care reform or pollution and twisting it just enough. So now if you disagree with the method they plan to "fix' things then somehow you are against the root. If the method the want to use to fix health care is wrong and you object then well you must want people to die.
It really is insidious.
Disagree with Obama - must be racist.
Disagree with healthcare -- must want people to die, work for insurance company etc.
Disagree with cap n trade -- must want the world to end with the horror of global warming and nasty pollution, work for big oil.

Its garbage.
The only people that fall for it are not paying attention.
What we, the deniers (which is the new racist) want is real answers. Things that actually help fix the problems not just line pockets.
For the US, states rights may be the only real hope. For the rest of the world it may be over.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:20 AM
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Thanks for the replies....

Still not sure why you would turn against something that seems to have "the people" and their wellbeing at the forefront....regardless of whether or not its the best option around, as opposed to NO healthCare which benefits nobody but the big Pharma,and healthcare companies etc...whose shareprices have rose nicely for the last 12 months I see....

But , yeah...i dont live there and I am sure its more complicated than it seems.....

BIG PHARMA Versus little people ......I would choose the people personally..not the HealthCare Company, which to me is the simplified version of these events..



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by benoni
 



Why are you all against something that will benefit millions of fellow americans??


Do you really believe that garbage? Benefit millions of Americans at whose expense?

Who do you think will pay for this?



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by benoni
 


Well you can easy see how much it hurts insurance and big pharma, their stocks are all up, way up.
If it did actually hurt them stocks would be down. In fact this helps insurance and big pharma rape us more.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 


Interesting write up you have there? Do you mind giving me your source? Do you mind telling us where you got it from?

I know where you got it from. I have written permission from the Author of that newsletter and the rest of his newsletters to re-post them on ATS. I can show you the email from John Hammel, the person who wrote it.

When ever I post the IAHF newsletters I always credit the author.

Of course I agree with the content, but I do not agree with you shamelessly stealing the newsletter and not even crediting the original source.

I thought plagiarism was strictly against ATS policy.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 01:45 AM
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So if we each have employer numbers, why not circulate one of those damn annoying fwd: messages I hate so much, but this one I would participate in...

Just have everyone put their name and employer number, and above the signatures, have it state the purpose, something along the lines of...

We the people do hereby relieve you "insert name" of your command? duties? job? whatever fits best... I'm no writer.


Hopefully in that jumbled heap of words I was able to get my point across, if not I'll try harder. LOL

Oh and if I was able to get my point across and it's just a dumbass idea... my bad.



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