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Should we be seeing these Snowstorms if Global Warming was Real?

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posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


we are at a solar minimum at the moment , a minimum thats not been seen for 200 years.

so dont jump on the climategate horsie yet, i can predict that when the spots come back we´ll be having a bit warmer, nothing to do with co2 gases and global taxation wont help againts the suns own activities.

its just logic , after the rain usualy the sun comes , and when the sun goes down its usualy night...




posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Haven't read through the pages so not sure if anyone mentioned this. But global warming is a predecessor of global cooling. The movie "Day After Tomorrow" is based on scientific study. If the polar icecaps melt (due to global warming man-made or natural) then all of that fresh water is deposited into the ocean (which is saltwater). It disrupts the natural flow of warm air and causes massive freeze storms and blizzards. There is a book that the movie is based off of that explains all of this in detail, but I don't remember what it's called. I'll have to find it.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by PeterGriffin
 





ProfEmeritus....Did you REALLY just go there to prove your point?? The guy posted on the 20th, and you had to correct him saying "uhhh nooo....that happens on the 21st"...good for you pointing out he was off by 24 hours...geeez

No, the POINT is that on the East Coast, most snow storms like that one yesterday don't occur until the SECOND or THIRD month of winter. To get a snowstorm of this magnitude before the official start of winter is VERY unusual. That is why it set records FOR THIS DATE on most parts of the east.

Think about melatonin's post.IT WAS cynical, stating that it was winter.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus


Firstly, it's winter in the NH!


WRONG!

It is AUTUMN. Winter in the NH does not occur until DECEMBER 21st.


WRONG!

lol

Meteorologically, NH winter is Dec, Jan, Feb (starts on 1st Dec).

[edit on 20-12-2009 by melatonin]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
 





Meterologically, winter is Dec, Jan, Feb (starts on 1st Dec).


Your comeback is typical of the GW advocates. Take what definitions and "facts" MATCH your opinion, and through away anything that doesn't fit.
Anyway, we had a big blizzard in March, so by your definition, that was an unusual SPRING event. You can't have it both ways, but I'm sure you'll find a way to "redefine" it, so that even a blizzard in June in the NH is normal.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Your comeback is typical of the GW advocates. Take what definitions and "facts" MATCH your opinion, and through away anything that doesn't fit.
Anyway, we had a big blizzard in March, so by your definition, that was an unusual SPRING event. You can't have it both ways, but I'm sure you'll find a way to "redefine" it, so that even a blizzard in June in the NH is normal.


It's not my definition. It's the definition used in meteorology.

Take it up with them. Perhaps write them a letter.


Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

No, the POINT is that on the East Coast, most snow storms like that one yesterday don't occur until the SECOND or THIRD month of winter. To get a snowstorm of this magnitude before the official start of winter is VERY unusual. That is why it set records FOR THIS DATE on most parts of the east.


In early Jan 1998, the NE coast of NA was hit by a massive icestorm. That would be in your first month of winter.

The common link is that there was also an El Nino during that winter (as now).

[edit on 20-12-2009 by melatonin]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by melatonin
 





Meterologically, winter is Dec, Jan, Feb (starts on 1st Dec).


Your comeback is typical of the GW advocates.


What on earth has GW got to do with it?
Meteorologically, winter is determined as Dec-Jan-Feb. Though many of us prefer the astronomical definition of 21st Dec - 21st Mar.

Obviously wintry weather can occur outside of such periods - just as mild weather can occur within them.

It's nice to see some wintry weather in Dec in Britain. It's occurrence neither proves nor disproves global warming, any more than a hot spell in May or October proves or disproves it.

From a climate perspective we look at multi decadaltrends. So, if we see over a 30 year period that decembers are becoming colder or Marchs are becomeing warmer, then we may make a conclusions with regards changes.

Anyone trying to make out the weather this month in a few countries proves/disproves anything with regards climate is, frankly, a complete fool. All you are doing is displaying your ignorance for all to see.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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living by the arctic circle all i can say is that winter is as it should be, and the real blizzards come march / april



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
we are at a solar minimum at the moment , a minimum thats not been seen for 200 years.
And that means what?


so dont jump on the climategate horsie yet, i can predict that when the spots come back we´ll be having a bit warmer, nothing to do with co2 gases and global taxation wont help againts the suns own activities.
I guess you didn't read that part where I said that this was years ago, before the "climagate horsie", as you call it. Countries closer to desert areas (like Portugal, that is relatively close to North Africa) have been noticing the effects for some years, even before they called it "global warming".


its just logic , after the rain usualy the sun comes , and when the sun goes down its usualy night...
Yes, but what do you do when you notice that after the rain the sun doesn't come or that the sun doesn't go down as before?

People started studying these things because the effects were known before they had any idea of what was the cause. Some people blamed the hole in the ozone layer when that was discovered, but soon noticed that they had the wrong suspect, so they kept looking for a reason for it.

Is it the (possible) excess CO2 in the atmosphere? Is it the Sun? Is it cosmic radiation? Is it anything else?

Who cares? The fact is that this has been going on for some years, although most people only noticed it when it was presented as an "official explanation" for something they never knew about before.

As the thread title is "Should we be seeing these Snowstorms if Global Warming was Real?" and, from what I have seen, the answer is "Yes", I just posted that, regardless of whatever may be behind global warming.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


sun spots in corelation to the weather on earth , the more spots (solar maximum) the warmer it gets and less spots (solar minimum) the colder it gets.

and now with a solar minimum i frankly cant even say ive seen northen lights lately,

98-99 was cold years after that there was sun spots again and we had warmer years , now at a solar minimum we should get a colder winter once again , last week we had -20/25 depending on where you live here and plus/minus the wind wich adds some numbers to the temprature,

all im saying is that before any conclutions are made wether its natural or man made, one should ponder this ,
where the snowdrifts bigger in the past because you where younger and smaller,
was the summers longer and warmer when you where in pre school and not so warm and long now that you work and such ,

a persons own view of time and space changes with growing up, so just because i dont see the same snow drifts i did when i was a child does not mean they arent just as big as they used to.

just because summers feel shorter and colder does not mean they ve always been just as long and warm.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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germay messured on spots the lowist temps ever meassured in history...

hopefully the vulcano's Mayon ( Phillypines) and one in Russia (Kamtjastska) won't come to an burst...
all the extra dust in the higher regions could trigger a mini iceage above
Europe now...

the 2012 issue still hold stand.. guess the following next 2 years we will have moore extreme weather conditions.. after that it will ease douwn to normal...

[edit on 20-12-2009 by ressiv]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
sun spots in corelation to the weather on earth , the more spots (solar maximum) the warmer it gets and less spots (solar minimum) the colder it gets.

and now with a solar minimum i frankly cant even say ive seen northen lights lately,
Does that mean that the average Earth temperature was lower this year, along with that decreased sun spot activity?


98-99 was cold years after that there was sun spots again and we had warmer years , now at a solar minimum we should get a colder winter once again , last week we had -20/25 depending on where you live here and plus/minus the wind wich adds some numbers to the temprature,
Last week we had up to 12º C here in Portugal, and as far as I know the wind does not change the Earth's temperature, only our perception of it.


all im saying is that before any conclutions are made wether its natural or man made, one should ponder this ,
I am not discussing if it's man made or not, because I don't think that was part of the reason for the creation of this thread.

And when I speak of warmer summers I do not rely just on my subjective interpretation, I use the data published by the Portuguese Meteorologic Institute.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


You miss the point of my post.

OK, Lots of posters have pointed me in the right direction with excellent replies of how Climate Change is not to be confused with Global Warming.

How, the climate changes we are seeing can cause more severe weather, and not just drops or rises in temps.

My OP was not supposed to be about Temp change over a period of time, thats in 100 other places on ATS. Its about Severe Snowstorms during so called "global Warming".

Extreme weather, and cold Extremem weather at that. Not trends in Temperature.




posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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You guys are all so stupid! Come one!

Just because we've just had a few cold weeks, suddenly global warming is not happening! That is ignorance! Has everyone already forgot that November was extremely warm (at least here in the UK!!).

Also, weather is weather and climate is climate. Two different things! Of course there will be colder and warmer weather, even with global warming. What we need to look at is average temperatures...not what happened during one week in December. Besides, just because it's snowing in one corner of the world, does not mean that the rest of the planet is boiling. It even rains sometime in the Sahara...but it's still a desert.

Also, these freak weathers are happening all the time nowadays, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was triggered by our climate changing too...

And yes...of course putting billions of tons of C02 into the atmosphare will affect the planet. Only stupid people would deny that!



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by robmatt66
 





You guys are all so stupid! Come one!


coming from someone who can't spell "on".




posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by robmatt66
 


Yes we're all stupid... yer the only one with an eye in here.

Listen... november was "hot" for a "november" yes, but take a look at the "summer". I know brits dont know much about "real summer" but let me tell you that in here, southern sunny europe, summer is getting colder and colder and you can notice it.

When I was a kid, there were nights you couldnt even sleep, how hot it was... I'm 30 and every year I end up saying "man I hope this turns out to be a REAL SUMMER LIKE IT USED TO BE" but no... it rains, its cold...

I'm not calling global warming or cooling... I just think the planet is changing along with its seasons... the earth is just entering a different cycle.

And about that Co2.. look, the planet can deal pretty well with that crap, you are living on a LIVING THING that has cycles. There was always global warming and global cooling / Ice ages... its called a cycle of equilibrium and renewal. If all of the pollution can accelerate the cycle, maybe, but not cause it.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by OrphenFire
 


Actually, I think you're right. I remember now seeing a clip once of a guy talking about the Oceans Salinity and if the Ice Caps Melt the Oceans Salt level will be wrong so the gulf Stream etc break down, then the cooling begins.

Interesting.


[edit on 20-12-2009 by grantbeed]



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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I am a retired weather forecaster and believe the evidence/science in favour of CO2 being the culprit of GW. The point is the Sun's energy output has changed but a fraction of a percent whilst man has been measuring it. Also the earth's orbital characteristics around the sun currently should lead to a cooling trend ( see Milankovitch cycles - that match closely with the ice ages ). CO2 on the other hand has risen to levels not seen in the human era. Ice cores and many other things show this and tie up with temperature levels experienced in the climate record. Historic CO2 levels do lag temperature on initial retreat from an ice age - man wasn't around to inject the CO2 and so it follows temperature rise ( decaying vegetation release from permafrost etc ). Some say that water vapour is a more significant greenhouse gas - yes it is but atmospheric levels follow rather than precede warming. That is, water vapour is in balance at a particular global temperature and that is the crucial point - balance - the climate is delicately poised in balance and a nudge in one direction sets off a domino effect. The current and uncharted solar minimum is interesting and there is IMO a cogent theory to say that it is currently affecting winters in the NH due to increased cosmic ray bombardment of the stratosphere ( greater warming of Ozone levels leading to a warmer and less strong/fixed stratospheric vortex - in turn influencing the blocking patterns at high latitudes and giving rise to colder conditions in places ( i.e. western Europe last winter and currently ). Any theory regarding an influence on cloud cover is at best speculative and certainly unproven.

I believe in the "precautionary principle" - meaning that yes we are unsure of the outcome - but, say, as an analogy, you were to see your daughter off on a long air flight and ask the pilot of the plane "what are the chances of the plane crashing? ". Say, he says 100 to 1. Would you let your daughter take the flight? At what odds would you take the risk? Precisely. You take the precaution and don't fly.

Scientists aren't scamming people - the cock up principle generally applies to life, not the conspiracy. And sorry, if we come over arrogant, but that is probably down to how important the problem is and many scientists rather unworldly academic nature and frustration at what seems to be ( I'm sorry but I'll say it ) denial of the science.

If ever the has been a conspiracy on the world then it has been 100 years of the petro-chemical companies controlling the worlds energy resources when ( of course ) there has been a better/cleaner/cheaper way the do things. Look up Tesla amongst others.

The world will gain many things in a switch to green energy in innovation and jobs, cleaner air and cheaper energy. Already there are significant advances being made in battery/capacitor and solar panel technology. The world must curb it's population explosion mind.

I quote from earlier in the thread ......

"You will have to come up with another way to put the nail in the coffin of the US of A!"

I'm sorry but that is a very sad reflection of human nature in my view.
I do hope it doesn’t win the day, it’s selfishness in the extreme.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
I know brits dont know much about "real summer" but let me tell you that in here, southern sunny europe, summer is getting colder and colder and you can notice it.
Here in Portugal the summer was hotter than normal, with the average values above the average between 1971 and 2000, with 1.1ºC for the maximum, 0.5ºC for the average and 0.1ºC for the minimum, but while the hot weather lasted longer we did not had any week with very high temperatures, like we used to have.



posted on Dec, 20 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by said _zebidee
 





CO2 on the other hand has risen to levels not seen in the human era.


SO WHAT?

NO ONE has been able to tie increased levels of CO2 to "so-called" global warming.
You GW people JUST DON"T GET IT.
The fact that two variables seem to correlate, indicates NOTHING.

The National DEBT has been increasing, and that increase is COMPLETELY correlated with CO2 increases.
So is Global Warming the cause of the National Debt increase?
Or maybe you think Global warming is causing the national debt to increase, so if we cut CO2, then our national debt will DROP. In fact, just the opposite will happen, as we get taxed out of existence with cap and trade.
You may have been a meteorologist, but you do not understand the difference between casual correlation and cause and effect. They are NOT the same, and so far, NO ONE has PROVEN cause and effect. They only conjecture it.l



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