Do you think the US is headed for a Civil War?

reply to post by Genfinity


You dont go to war with the government. They are at the ends of the strings being pulled.

It needs to be a war between the middle class and the elite. The elite tell the government what to do so we have to go after them. They are easy to find, just go to the most effluent neighborhoods.

when a starving people have nothing to loose and everything to gain and when events move so fast and the Governemetn is so dysfunctional that events outpace its ability to cope with them. Its what happend in the French Revolution and in Russian in 1917.

I agree 100%

I don't see a civil war on the horizon, but I do fear a public uprising within a year or two if things don't get better economically.

People are getting very aware of the fact that that our leaders no longer feel bound to represent their constituents. I am 49 years old and I don't ever recall seeing people from all across the political spectrum so angry.

As a liberal in many ways, I was delighted when Obama won the election. But Obama began to betray the liberals as soon as he was elected. The network news outlets try to play it down, but the left is seething mad right now, especially over healthcare. The right hates Obama too of course although for different reasons, but they are not any less pleased with the govt. than the left is.

A good article entitled "Obama's Big Sell Out" was recently written by Matt Taibbi. It chronicles just what a phony Obama is. The left, including myself, was duped big time.

www.rollingstone.com...

Add this realization about Obama's cynical duplicity and that our votes count for nothing anymore to the unrest already caused by record setting foreclosure rates, high unemployment, sweetheart deals to mega rich Wall street bankers, the Patriot Act, and several things I won't bother mentioning....well, what can I say.

I think it truly is in the best interest of the govt and the wealthy to get this economy going, now.

People are right when they say that we're too comfortable drinking beer and watching football to revolt. But people who have no home to watch TV or drink beer in are not comfortable. Then remove hope for the future with a high unemployment rate. Add in that the govt could care less about anyone whose last name isn't Inc.

In short, very few people trust our govt anymore. More and more people think the U.S. govt has totally sold out the people with trade agreements like NAFTA and GATT. The gulf between rich and poor is larger than ever before and getting bigger, and the middle class is being eviscerated.

The national mood is ugly and for good reason. It wouldn't take a lot at this point for the people to grab torches and pitchforks.

I think the battle is between the good bad guys and the bad bad guys. Part of the Illuminati/Council of 300/NWO wants to annihilate humanity to a manageable level and part want to move in a positive direction of freedom for all. I do suspect that there are a mix of influences on both sides, some earth based, some extra terrestrial, some perhaps, inner dimensional. What ever the catalysts the battle has been going on for 20/30 years at least and seems to be coming to a head. I think in the next year or so we should see significant disclosure on a variety of issues.

It does seem that the bad bad guys are overtly threatening the good bad guys as indicated by the sky Spiral over Norway and the blue beam that has been traced to a HARPE site in that area. Project Camelot has some recent info on that which seem to make some sense. (Part of it anyway)

The thing is that most of the network of the NWO is built on franchise dependencies and appeasing all of those varied interests and even weening them off of their free lunch, is not an easy matter while maintaining a positive influence. The bad bad guys made a huge mistake in wanting to wipe out the population because that directly impacts the existence and revenue of their network and that can't be good for relationships. So the good bad guys have gained a lot of friends and are trying to manage that while moving forewad. But the bad bag guys have a lot of high end technology and military power and basically won't give up without a fight. The bad bad guys also have some key franchises such as the legal society that they can wield to maintain influence.

There is likely to be a period of disruption. Destroying the middle class is not happening as well as the bad bad guys would like. However, we are definitely not going back to the dark ages. I still maintain that the real change coming is with the shock of reality which will cause the spirits to look more seriously at their true spiritual well being and for many it will be an end to the notion that this dark, empty place is their true home.

Strange but perhaps true, it may be that people like Jesse Ventura and Obama are programmed for the of the good bad guys. Clearly we only have Youtube, Google, Project Camelot, perhaps ATS because the good bad guys are taking a stand against the evilest influence.

The true test of any real change will be in what is not said and what is not done. If Obama comes out an says "the world is now free and chocolate chip cookies for everyone", but the criminal corrupts don't end then it's not true and real. If Obama comes out with a positive statement and lists criminal abuses and the media begin to crusade against those abuses and arrests are made and corruptions stopped, then only will we know that real change is occurring. The problem is that the corruptions as so pervasive that there is sure to be significant backlash. To anything positive. I suspect we will have to ride that out.

reply to post by Genfinity


Homeland Security just ordered 200 million rounds of 40 cal. ammunition.

Nah...civil war will never happen if the oligarch's can't figure out how to consolidate their power and make more money off of it.

Originally posted by Aircow



A good article entitled "Obama's Big Sell Out" was recently written by Matt Taibbi. It chronicles just what a phony Obama is. The left, including myself, was duped big time.

I really don't get how people were 'duped' .... You've had God-only-knows how many years of successive Republican and Democrat presidents and governments grinding your nation to the ground, being totally self-serving, spending WAY more than you can afford, pandering to Big Business and lobbyists, and basically being two sides of the same coin.

What on earth possessed people to think (something apparently greatly lacking in the general voter) that anything is going to change, anything be any different?

... incidentally, I live in the UK and what I'm saying applies just as much here with Labour and Conservatives taking turns at running the country into the ground, and people STILL voting for them.

Personally, I think people get the government they deserve. If you're fed up with the way things are, here's a thought.... Forget all the Republicans versus Democrats BS, forget Left versus Right, forget Liberals versus Conservatives. and DON'T VOTE THE BUGGERS IN!!!!!

THINK!!!

[edit on 20/12/2009 by Dagar]

[edit on 20/12/2009 by Dagar]

I think there is a high probability that there will be some kind of civil war. Here's why. The Federal government is on the verge of bankruptcy. It's massive multi-trillion $ debt is so large now that it can never be paid off. As taxes rise, more and more people will shift to an underground economy, thereby causing federal AND state income tax revenues to fall even more. As the states find themselves in a serious fiscal mess, there will be increasing pressue to withdraw from the Union especially if the Feds continue to trample states rights as they have been doing lately. Once the first state heads for the exit, the rest of the states will suddenly realize that they're in a game of musical chairs and the last states left in the Union will find themselves with an impossible federal tax burden to carry. Where the war comes is is my belief that the vested interests ie. the Powers That Be, have too much to lose by letting the Federal government collapse and they will try to use the military to keep the states from leaving.

To minimize the chaos, it would be prudent for states to enter into agreements with each other now, to set up contingency plans that will come into effect if the whole federal house of cards collapses suddenly.

I doubt that they went to the trouble of setting up all the FEMA camps for nothing. Not to mention the 'large plastic containers'

If "They" (government, NWO etc) mess with the internet I would be sure of something happening. It may start out as civil unrest but it would spread globally extremely fast. It is the one thing that unites us all.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
reply to post by Genfinity

 

You dont go to war with the government. They are at the ends of the strings being pulled.

It needs to be a war between the middle class and the elite. The elite tell the government what to do so we have to go after them. They are easy to find, just go to the most effluent neighborhoods.

I'm fairly sure you mean affluent.
But thanks for making me snort hot coffee out of my nose

It also took the sting out of your hate post. Why hate ? Because it is a simple statement of
"They have money I don't the b@#...let's get 'em."

reply to post by Genfinity


No I don't.

I think we will see a change however. I think the power of the radicals and extremists is about to take a plunge. People are waking up to the damage being done by a tiny minority.

I think we may see a genuine third political party enter the scene representing the majority who are moderate conservatives. As evidence the Tea Party which does not even exist is polling well vs the corrupt big two. That tells me that voters are ready to retire the aging corrupt incumbents.

It won't happen overnight, but I think it will happen.

reply to post by Watcher777


Worrying about the Internet is a diversion. What matters far more is the corruption in the media. When the media started supporting select candidates by not reporting on them, we headed down a seriously dangerous road.

The Internet sources for the most part are worthless to begin with. They are even more biased than the traditional media. Blogs and pseudo-news sites are completely unreliable and spread more propaganda than anything. The Internet is a far more powerful tool for them than us.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I agree MSM is corrupt, that is why so many people have turned to the internet. I can't say the internet it not corrupt but the information is there, sometimes we have to search through all the BS to find it.

Fortunately people are not as stupid as they look and they are figuring out the BS from the true information.

reply to post by Watcher777


What worries me is that people tend to accept what they read on the Internet and they are forgetting even how to research. In particular young people. Look how easily they were manipulated by a charismatic Obama.

Our greatest protection was our main stream media until they became extensions of the political parties. We need the media back on our side and we need it now. Bad things are afoot in the White House. Perhaps the worst in our history since the Civil War.

I was heartened when the White House tried to silence FoxNews and the rest of the media finally took a stand. I think it is starting to sink in they are cutting their own throats by being partisan tools.

We need a FoxNews and a CNN, MSNBS, ABC, ....... We need all the points of view we can get.

Originally posted by Misoir
...so we can have more democracy in America and stop with this whole state thing.

You're kidding, right? Democracy is one of the primary tools to initiate tyranny. This has been proven in history time & again. The Constitution calls for a Republican (representative) form of government under the Rule of Law. The Founding Forefathers abhorred Democracy at least as much as Americans during the Cold War Era abhorred Communism.

Democracy is what they corrupted the Republic into so they could accelerate tyranny. Once Congress stopped acting like representatives & listened more to lobbying special interest groups, that's when "democracy" corrupted the Republic. As the POTUS (most energetically by Bush) stole more Powers in violation of the Constitution's "checks & balances" system & stacked the SCOTUS according more to political favoring than to upholding the Law, that's how democracy devolves to tyranny.

Originally posted by Aircow
As a liberal in many ways, I was delighted when Obama won the election. But Obama began to betray the liberals as soon as he was elected.

Yep...And quite probably by a far greater margin than we know about.

Originally posted by ReelView
There is likely to be a period of disruption. Destroying the middle class is not happening as well as the bad bad guys would like.

Maybe not as well as they want, but they've already made the Middle Class all but extinct. Unless you're at least 40 years old, you may not even be aware of how much the Middle Class has lost already. It's very tough to even imagine what it was like to grow up during an era when there was a sizable Middle Class with the promise of prosperity...Most being families managing reasonably well on a single-income & then seeing it disintegrate right in front of your eyes as the years pass in front of you. I don't have to imagine it; I have seen it because I've lived through it.
Obstacles that terminated the recent "Golden Age" of America's middle class
The Digital Death Rattle of the Middle Class
The Family Income Report; Part 1 & Part 2

Originally posted by Dagar
Personally, I think people get the government they deserve. If you're fed up with the way things are, here's a thought.... Forget all the Republicans versus Democrats BS, forget Left versus Right, forget Liberals versus Conservatives. and DON'T VOTE THE BUGGERS IN!!!!!

Well, there's already some effort along those lines...But, not surprisingly, we don't see much in MSM about it.
Downsize DC
The Kick Them All Out Project

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The Internet sources for the most part are worthless to begin with. They are even more biased than the traditional media. Blogs and pseudo-news sites are completely unreliable and spread more propaganda than anything. The Internet is a far more powerful tool for them than us.

Well, more people are beginning to be more discriminating about what they find on the internet. At first, the "Information Superhighway" overloaded people with "too much" information & we had trouble sorting & collating it into something meaningful. Now that the newest generation is growing up with the internet, they can take up where the olders leave off, already knowing right from the start how pervasive "media spin" actually is.

Originally posted by Watcher777
Fortunately people are not as stupid as they look and they are figuring out the BS from the true information.

This is really one of their "keys to control." If they can keep bombarding the "masses" they have an edge in "mob psychology." It's much easier to predict the actions of a group than it is the individual. Every police officer has some training that includes the concept that "A person is smart, but people are dumb, panicky animals."

The internet has reduced the idiocy of mob mentality to the intelligence of the individual! On the internet, snap decisions (good or bad) are not required, as they would be in a group situation...A person can sit, think & deliberate over the information they get. This is why a free internet is dangerous to them & why they would need to control it...They wouldn't be very likely to destroy it outright, because they rely on it to maintain their control more than the average person does.

It hasn't been so long since there were multiple threads on ATS with people almost "foaming at the mouth", for a revolution, planning all their little weapons and such. It creeped me out. Some of those people have stopped posting, and it seems a little better to me now. Maybe they've taken to the caves already, and have no internet.

But a civil war? I don't really think so. Sometimes I think the media would like to push us in that direction; they are always stirring the pot about one thing or another. But so far they haven't had much luck.

Like another poster said, I believe we will have localized outbursts/riots from time to time, like the one in California a few years back, but I don't think we will see anything which rises to the definition of a Civil War.

God, I hope not. Surely we won't ever stoop that low again.

reply to post by Dagar

I really don't get how people were 'duped' .... You've had God-only-knows how many years of successive Republican and Democrat presidents and governments grinding your nation to the ground, being totally self-serving, spending WAY more than you can afford, pandering to Big Business and lobbyists, and basically being two sides of the same coin.

Indeed, you may not get just how it is that we feel "duped". But be that as it may, you have only to read the left wing American blogs to confirm it.

As silly as it may seem to you, many Americans were in hopes that Obama was going to fight against the lobbyists and corrupting corporate influences in congress, not give them a pass. We thought he would fight against continuing many of Bush's unconstitutional policies.

We didn't think he would go along with business as usual. That's what all that change stuff was about. That's a summary of what Obama campaigned on.

As far as "thinking" goes and not voting the buggers in, I don't think you understand the situation over here. About 55 million of us believed what Obama said in his campaign. We were happy that there was a candidate who might be on the side of the people, for once. He was extremely convincing. Even his critics concede that.
It may seem foolish to you, but we thought that perhaps the system was going to work and we preferred that to just giving up.

Not voting the buggers in as you say, is the last resort of a people with no hope. When you don't use your right to vote you forfiet your right to demand accountability. You give the govt a pass to do as it pleases. You in effect tell them that you're not interested in your rights anymore. A lot of people died to give us the right to vote, and that makes it sacred.

Obama inspired hope in many of us that he was going to represent the American people over the elite and the powerful.

That will be a very difficult thing for a candidate to accomplish now. It has become very obvious to both the right and the left in this country that the people are going to have to remind the govt just who they really work for.

People are angrier than I have ever seen them in my 49 years. I think the days of people just complaining about the govt are close to being over. The people showed last November just how ready for change they really are, and govt needs to take note of that.

Originally posted by aristocrat2

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
There are only two possible reasons that I can see that could ever possibly divide ordinary Americans into two fiercely separate camps to start another civil war.

White versus black, or Democrat versus Republican.

I just cannot ever see it happening like that.............

This is the most staggeringly stupid and breathtakingly ignorant post I have ever read and shows an EXTREME lack of knowledge of your own country's history. The last civil war was not about Democrats and Republicans, but over slavery.

When everyone looses their jobs and all the pension funds collapse and the Government can't fund welfare any more, that is when fighting would start... when a starving people have nothing to loose and everything to gain and when events move so fast and the Governemetn is so dysfunctional that events outpace its ability to cope with them. Its what happend in the French Revolution and in Russian in 1917.

So you are suggesting half of America will support this unemployment as necessary, and the other half of America will condemn it.
And the two sides will actually fight a war over the morality of unemployment ?
Duh ???

Yes the French had a REVOLUTION, but the French never had a civil war.

The Russians had a REVOLUTION, but never had a civil war.

America will probably soon have a REVOLUTION too, but a revolution is NOT a civil war.

Americans did onece fight a real civil war over the principle of slavery.
The war was between northern states and the southern states, not between the American people all united against the American Government.

For a civil war you need a reason that divides one half of a nation against the other half, over some "moral principle".

So what is going to divide 300 million Americans to take up two opposing sides mad enough at each other to fight ?
If not race, or politics, (or slavery) then what would do it ?

And don't mention the government in this, because if you do, then that is not a civil war, but a revolution.

Can you guys now see the difference between a civil war and a revolution?

I guess not..............



[edit on 21/12/2009 by Silver Shadow]

[edit on 21/12/2009 by Silver Shadow]

Originally posted by awake_awoke
As a liberal I can assure you liberals really wouldn't fight anyway...I'll just make a snarky blog about my opponant whilst I sip my latte and listen to my Jack Johnson Cd.

That is only half true for me. I wouldn't fight but the hospital where I practice would undoubtedly call me in to assist in triage of the river of shredded wingnuts flowing into the ER. I'll have to earn my latte!

We are already in a civil war, and have been for a short while. Most do not know we have been in world war III since Carter, so they can be forgiven for not recognizing the strictly U.S. war.
The leaders of the "enemy" are untouchable for the most part, but so are the leaders of the resistance. We can't get to them, but they cannot get to us either. That is, the leaders.
The fools and the helpless always die.
Wars are fought differently know and there is not one single Hollywood movie that GETS it. So, don't look there...

There are irreconcilable differences between collectivists and individualists. You cannot have a revolution with significant numbers of BOTH calling themselves Americans.
Thus, a civil war.
Much like the last civil war, we are looking at ideological differences.