Why the hatrid towards American soldiers, by Americans?

It seems, as time goes by that more and more posters here delight in posting anti American videos, as well as decrying the troops in really vile ways. Do bad things happen? Yes, but for every negative video posted, you could just as easily post a positive one.
I guess commiting sedition, without fear of prosecution, due in no small part to our liberally biased media, is easier than actually making a change. Before posting about how evil and vile our troops are, perhaps realize they are doing a job you never could do. It seems, alot of people on here tend to paint the military with a rather broad brush.....how would that work on other topics, I wonder?
Since a right wing Christian bombed an abortion clinic, all Christians are Evil.
Since a few Muslims have killed their off spring through honour killings, all Muslims are bad.
Since black rappers seem to glorify the thus life, all blacks are thugs.
None of these comments make any sense at all......yet this same logic is applied to our troops all of the time. Why?

It's easy to have contempt and anamosity towards our troops as they are a direct reflection of our corrupt and tyrannical government. Taken as individuals soldiers are just doing their job......but as a whole their meaning and "job" becomes much different. It's not the individual soldiers many of us lambast. It's the "whole" i.e. the wars, the foreign policy, the defense budget, yadda yadda. And we must remember we have an all volunteer military. Without young men volunteering shoot and kill the rich old white men in congress wouldn't hold the power that they do. Also more and more the goals of the US military is less and less about freedom, democracy and protecting the Constitution and more and more about protecting corporate interests. If America wants to send their young men and women off to die because of their standard of living and reliance on oil...........that's fine........but let's be honest about it then. Can we stomach the cause of war for prosperity? Because as much as they try to brainwash us it has little to do with national security or protecting me the individual middle class American.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Zosynspiracy]

So taking them as individuals, they are o.k.? But grouping them all together brings about this hate? I fail to see the logic behind that arguement.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


You see all these vile things said about soldiers? Really? Where? I'm sure that if it were as rampant as you say, I would have seen it plenty in my several years here. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Instead what I see is, as often as not, a bunch of pro-war pipsqueeks who assume anything bad said about a war or its execution are "badmouthing" the soldiers.

That said? Look at it this way. We have a volunteer force, right? Both wars we're currently in were drummed up on fake evidence and are totally unnecessary. What would YOU think of someone who volunteers to kill other people based on claims that are known to be false?

I'm not American, our media (Czech Republic) are pro-American, I do not hate American soldiers. I hate politics which force US soldiers to fight unjust wars which do not bring peace to other countries and even do not bring peace to USA. That is the European "anti-Americanism". We do not hate soldiers but stupids who send them to stupid wars. We hate the people full mouthed with freedom and proposing Patriot Act.
I'm pretty sure that videos you criticise are rooted in same view.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox
Did I specifically say you, no, so lets dispense with that nonsense from the get go. Secondly, so following orders, while under military contract is a bad idea? Thirdly, if the wars are unjust, then maybe you could ask congress to do something about it, after they're done raping the rest of the country. Finally, as far as being a pro war pipsqueak.....nah as a Veteran of the U.S. Army, I feel if nothing I have earned the right to ask this question, what have you sone sir?

TO answer... they do it on line cause they don't have the Cojones to say their crap to my face....

Not to sound like a rant but people will always look to someone else to blame for all the wrongs in the world...it's never there fault for not getting out and voting for real change... they would rather rant about the problems their apathy and lack of civil participation helped create... I'm not saying were saints or something... we only ever do what were ordered too... at least we servicemen and women did something for our fallow mankind



if people really want to find fault they should talk to our leaders who time and time again place us in harms way...personally I'd rather be back home with a soft lady under one arm and cold beer in the other

lastly consider the source... these comments are coming from people who've never left the safety of their parents basements... it's academic until someone starts shooting at you... funny how fast they scream for for the Marines to come save their sorry A$$e$... We're only ever the Heroes when they need us...

[edit on 19-12-2009 by DaddyBare]

reply to post by DaddyBare


That's not fair, I'm sure some of them left the basement and are attending one of our great libeal colleges learning about how evil we are. All seriousness though, I feel your one comment was right.......as well as not having the cajones to say it to a service mans face, have they ever met let alone talked to a service man, ever volunteered at the V.A. hospital, ever even considered a service mans side. I think not. I'm sure Mother Theresa will post on here how they gleened their opinion after talking to servicemen, but gotta expect exgerrations from key board know it alls.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
That said? Look at it this way. We have a volunteer force, right? Both wars we're currently in were drummed up on fake evidence and are totally unnecessary. What would YOU think of someone who volunteers to kill other people based on claims that are known to be false?

Good enough point. However we were well into the conflict and even had moved on to another before it was determined that the intel was fake. So at the time the dirty work was underway they were acting on what they knew at the time was genuine intel. By the time we knew different it was too late to recall the bullets that were already headed down range. Its always easier to say what a soldier should or should not do on a battle field or off. It's and entirely different thing to get armchair quarterbacks into the action and see if their process of thinking remains the same.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by ch1ldofthe70s]

I feel that a lot of the hatred comes from complacency. Most of these people have been handed everything in life and are spoon fed what to think, eat, wear and act. We've heaped so much on people about how special, unique and important individuals they are that their ego can't handle that they're just one of the worker drones no matter how flashy and provocative they act. Most of this all? pleas for attention as well as denigrating a voiceless group behind their back to shore up their constantly hungry ego as a way to make themselves feel somehow superior.

You'll also notice, that by and large, these are the people that always have their hand out saying 'gimme gimme gimme' and howl the loudest when they feel their rights (whether real or imaginary) have been violated, but are always happy and free to stomp on the rights of others if it benefits themselves.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


I've got four years on ATS over you, and I'm simply saying that I haven't seen what you're getting at.

And as a veteran, you should know that yes, it is your duty as a soldier to refuse illegal orders, contract be damned.

of course, since everyone who posts about hte military on the internet is a veteran, I'm taking your claim with a grain of salt. Nothing personal, just standard operating procedure

Originally posted by DaddyBare
TO answer... they do it on line cause they don't have the Cojones to say their crap to my face....

Not to sound like a rant but people will always look to someone else to blame for all the wrongs in the world...it's never there fault for not getting out and voting for real change... they would rather rant about the problems their apathy and lack of civil participation helped create... I'm not saying were saints or something... we only ever do what were ordered too... at least we servicemen and women did something for our fallow mankind



if people really want to find fault they should talk to our leaders who time and time again place us in harms way...personally I'd rather be back home with a soft lady under one arm and cold beer in the other

lastly consider the source... these comments are coming from people who've never left the safety of their parents basements... it's academic until someone starts shooting at you... funny how fast they scream for for the Marines to come save their sorry A$$e$... We're only ever the Heroes when they need us...

[edit on 19-12-2009 by DaddyBare]

Not to throw a wrench in your argument, but exactly which war(s) was it that the people screamed for the military to come save their asses? I was under the impression that our defense force has only fought wars of offense against foreign nations, and we haven't been threatened by a foreign government since...oh...WW2?

So please, don't make stuff up to make yourself look/feel better. We haven't fought any wars for freedom, defense, or liberty in a long while. They've all been about bloating the military/industrial complex and securing resources for the corporate lobby that really runs our country.

I respect soldiers as my peers. Just because someone has served doesn't make them better than anyone else or mean they've done more for "mankind". Looking at private citizens as beneath you is an arrogant and dangerous way of thinking.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Four years more on ATS, and that matters in what way. There are several going now as we speak. What illegal orders specifically have been followed? I understand that you have to take it with a grain of salt that I served as frankly there are a few on here I seriously doubt myself. U2U me if ya want more info on that.

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


I'm sorry, I have never been in service but:

... are spoon fed what to think, eat, wear and act.

is definition of good soldier. Being anarchist (in Europe similar to libertarian in US) I strictly oppose organized religion, federal police and ... army. I'm sure that USA could be perfectly safe nation with National guards under common command in case of emergency. US Army is now bigger threat to World then Red Army ever was - and my nation was occupied by Red Army for 20 years. Please reread your founding fathers thoughts and restore your democracy.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


My mistake... I was under the impression the National Guard troops and Marines are stationed along the US Mexico border were there to prevent the Drug war from spilling into your back yard... sad thing that war over 7,000 murders this year alone...16,000 in all since the start of that rather nasty conflict...

well let me just run along and tell everyone gecko said he's got it and we can all go home...

reply to post by adifferentbreed

Why?

Some people find it horrifying to perceive the evil that is in the enemy. Some find it far more horrifying to perceive that very same evil...in themselves.

Since a right wing Christian bombed an abortion clinic, all Christians are Evil.
Since a few Muslims have killed their off spring through honour killings, all Muslims are bad.
Since black rappers seem to glorify the thus life, all blacks are thugs.

That's not it. It's not simply generalization. It's a more guttural horror with the idea that the very qualities that allow us to perceive others as evil can be found within ourselves. Those people over there are bad and it's ok to destroy them because they do X. But wait....we do X too. That can be a powerful and terrible realization for some people.

And for those people, suddenly it becomes far more important to cleanse the evil within than the evil without.


[edit on 19-12-2009 by LordBucket]

Originally posted by DaddyBare
reply to post by Avenginggecko

 

My mistake... I was under the impression the National Guard troops and Marines are stationed along the US Mexico border were there to prevent the Drug war from spilling into your back yard... sad thing that war over 7,000 murders this year alone...16,000 in all since the start of that rather nasty conflict...

well let me just run along and tell everyone gecko said he's got it and we can all go home...

Oh that's rich, the war on drugs? You might want to educate yourself on the causes and driving forces behind the "War on Drugs" before you use it as an example of the military defending Americans.

I agree that many Americans take out their frustrations on 'unecessary wars' on the troops themselves. I personally have the highest regard for our troops and know that the vast majority of them want to do their jobs, complete the missions, and return home. The relatively few troops who lack discipline and morals and who steal, rape, or murder for self-benefit should be taken out (literally).

The real blame is, of course, at the top who set the precedent for war. These include those who recklessly create war for profit just like Pres. Eisenhower warned about (Defense contractors, CIA, highly vested interests who can reap profit from having our troops invade and occupy other countries such as Big Oil, drug cartels/CIA, even elected officials with extreme conflicts of interest - ie. a President, Vice-President, and cabinet officials who have worked for Defense companies and are highly invested in them).

Another problem with the military in recent decades are the Generals and higher-ups in command positions who have a lucrative future with Defense contractors after retirement from the military and basically do their (contractors) bidding to further their economic objectives, at the expense of the lives and futures of the troops they command as well as the country in general.

Problem is, those who have the most to lose, at first, are the troops themselves, then the country itself due to the psychological and economic repercussions. At this time, our troops are extremely screwed since Iraq and Afghanistan make Vietnam look like a walk in the park and their suicide rate shows it. My heart cries for our troops and in my opinion they should be sent out only when absolutely necessary and their use for personal profit should be considered among the highest degrees of treason.

reply to post by TypeSH2001

I agree that many Americans take out their frustrations on 'unecessary wars' on the troops themselves.

Is that unreasonable?

Let's say someone tells you go murder your neighbor. So you do. Is your neighbor justified in being angry at you for it?

Isn't that exactly what's going on? Sure, we can say that it's our unreasonable leaders who are giving the orders to fight unjust wars, but they're not the ones pulling the trigger.

Who would you say is responsible?


[edit on 19-12-2009 by LordBucket]

reply to post by adifferentbreed


my guess would be that people hate the war and instead of being mad at the war itself they take it out on soldiers my opinion is that I may not support the war but I support those that fight it. Yes they do stuff I couldn't imagine doing. They sacrifice alot for our freedom. I think people tend to forget that and just see them and get mad at them for either someone they lost due to the war or they feel like the war isn't over or won't ever be over. They keep hearing people like the president saying just 6 more months. I'm not sure how long now I've heard just a little bit longer. Well I think the time for the little bit longer has long since past.