Isn't this what the global warming debate is actually all about?

This just hits the nail on the head:





Best,
Skunknuts

reply to post by skunknuts


In a word...... NO!

The climate debate, as it exists right now is predominantly geared around financial and economic power plays. The people pushing most for the current accords are also deeply embroiled in organisations that will profit handsomely from the creation of the carbon credit trading scam.

See, they know the argument for man made global climate change is BS and supported only by doctored and "adjusted" data being spewed out by computer models. They have already been exposed as a bunch of frauds and they know we know it, but they don't care when so much money is at stake.

The "Deniers", as they like to call us, are painted as a bunch of environmental terrorists, who care nothing for the world around us. That is so far from the truth that it is extremely insulting! Yes, we do recognise that we need to clean up our act, but we also recognise a scam when we see one.
If we were in imminent peril, as they keep telling us, they wouldn't need to push these schemes for making money, they'd actually be doing something to curb emissions immediately. If we were indeed all about to drown under rising sea levels or fry in deserts, they'd be spending money of preparing for it, not spending $Trillions on wars to secure dirty fossil fuels and the transportation of those fuels.

See how their arguments just start to all fall apart when you think about what is presented versus what they are actually doing?

What if its all a big hoax and we have to pay allready rich people money just to breeth air

I agree men are dirty creatures, I do not agree that less than one percent of the atmosphere, CO2, can have such a huge effect on the rest of the atmosphere, it seems to me the 'scientists' deliberately ignore water vapour,
and Methane, those are the two doing the most 'damage', perhaps those 'scientists' need to find out how 'Google' works.

reply to post by skunknuts

It is a pointed little cartoon.

But some see a little more to it than the obvious point that people should agree that it would be a good thing for the planet to survive in some sort of decent shape.

Nowadays in particular, any "crisis" or "global situation" is suspect. Because they can be used by the Powers That Be to keep the population in foment while masking the true nature of the situation.

Global warming, or "climate change," is a possible example of this. There is a theory out there that the atmosphere is getting warmer because we are burning too much carbon-based fuel. The fact is, burning a lot of carbon-based fuel is dumb for a lot of other reasons, too. But we have somehow been surviving doing it for a long time.

Other scientists have been studying ice cores and other data about long-term climatic cycles on earth. And you look at their data and it seems like it's about time for the earth's atmosphere to warm up regardless of what kind of fuel we are burning. If this is true, reducing that kind of fuel consumption will reduce various kinds of pollution, but it won't necessarily stop the atmosphere from warming up! So there is the possibility that we could go totally green over the whole planet, and the ice caps would still melt down, causing widespread flooding and possible tectonic imbalances of unsure result.

There is always a possibility that our decision makers have become convinced of the incorrect cause for something. They work their butts off to fix the situation, and it never goes away! If they are being purposely mislead (as I believe they have been in the case of mental illness, to give one example, and the War Against Terrorism, to give another example), then a society can spend tremendous amounts of time, effort and resources and never really gain any ground. The expense might even assist the society to collapse.

As far as I know, no one at the conference is really into this aspect of the global warming problem. If it is caused by "greenhouse gasses" then at least there is something we can do to slow it down! On the other hand, if a combined earth-solar cycle that has been going on for millions of years is really driving the warming trend, then what we really need to do is start moving out of the low lands. And no amount of anti-pollution work is going to accomplish that.

So that's what I see is the real problem with global warming. Do we have the correct cause, and is someone purposely pushing an incorrect cause?




[edit on 19-12-2009 by l_e_cox]

I agree, we should be moving towards a cleaner more sustainable society. carbon trading, however, is not the way forward in my opinion and will have devestating consequences for the poorer nations.

Unfortunately, our so Called leaders have been manipulated so they no longer represent the views of their citizens instead they work on behalf of the rich corporations. What we see now is a trading for the SKY, the sky is now a commodity, how much sky can a nation afford. It's madness.

I think Copenhagen has showed quite clearly the difference between us the people and our elected officials. We live in different worlds.



[edit on 19-12-2009 by woodwardjnr]

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by skunknuts

 

In a word...... NO!

The climate debate, as it exists right now is predominantly geared around financial and ecblah blah blah

You forgot to mention that Al Gore is using it to try to take over the world for the lizard people from Mars.

Basically the movement is about this.

The OP narrows it down to just doing good for the planet.

This response basically says, screw the planet and our future generations because people are hijacking this for power plays and some of us would rather pollute than let some liberal nutjob make money off my kids having clean water.

There is greed and power to be hand on both sides. I am not all that worried about who has power over my carbon credits or whatever else. If it cleans up the planet so we can all enjoy getting screwed a little longer, hey.

edit to add that I do not mean screwed in a pleasurable or utilitarian sense.

[edit on 12/19/09 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by TinFoilBat
What if its all a big hoax and we have to pay allready rich people money just to breeth air

What if it's NOT a hoax and we have to pay the already rich people money just to NOT breathe polluted air? But, corporations destroying the earth to increase their profit is such a crazy conspiracy theory, right?

Best,
Skunknuts

The points in the cartoon are real kickers. Here's a rundown, with my take:

1. Energy Independence.
Errrrr.... so why are we invading countries with the natural resources to steal them or install puppet governments that will sell them to our corporations cheaply? And, why do those mega corporations who keep us, via our governments, shackled to those resources get to buy their way into beneficial legislation?

2. Preserve Rainforests.
Well, that's a bit rich coming from the western nations who form a big market for the goods reaped from the detruction.

3. Sustainability.
Ah!, the new buzzword. Again, why do the big mega corporations who create most of the problems get away with keeping us shackled to their products?

4. Green Jobs.
Now this one has me puzzled! I keep seeing ministers talking about the creation of thousands of new jobs in "Green Industries". Where? Doing what and making what they never say. In fact, they can't say at all but it sounds good in the speeches.

5. Livable cities.
Say what? From what I have seen, it's huge cities that seem to produce the most wastage of energy and pollution.

6. Renewables.
Nothing but another buzzword - see number 3.

7. Clean water, air.
Again, the biggest polluters get tiny fines and carry on as always due to the lobbying money they flash around the politicians.

8. Healthy children.
Yeah, lets get them all medicated and kept dumb to make them all compliant little drones. Better still, lets use the kiddies to push through our climate propaganda - nobody likes to see scared kiddies.
Also, lets keep the food jacked up full of chemical goodies to keep the Pharma, Agri-business and Chemical corporations happy.

9. etc..etc.
Well, I'm sure they can come up with some other angles the more they pay the PR companies.

reply to post by Lillydale


Aha! Another drone trolling.

Did you even read what I posted? Nowhere did I mention Al Gore or Lizard People from Mars. If that is what you are seeing then I urge you to seek psychiatric help and medication immediately!

I did make the point that we deniers care every bit about the environment as anyone else, but that does not mean we are about to bend over and get shafted by those out to make money. If you want to get screwed then go ahead, knock yerself out, but don't expect everyone else to want to pay for your own selfishness and misguided beliefs.

Originally posted by Britguy
The points in the cartoon are real kickers. Here's a rundown, with my take:

1. Energy Independence.
Errrrr.... so why are we invading countries with the natural resources to steal them or install puppet governments that will sell them to our corporations cheaply? And, why do those mega corporations who keep us, via our governments, shackled to those resources get to buy their way into beneficial legislation?

Because we do not have energy independence. We would not want it if we already had it.

2. Preserve Rainforests.
Well, that's a bit rich coming from the western nations who form a big market for the goods reaped from the detruction.

Again, that is why it needs to be changed. Changing this stuff is what the 'movement' is all about. Otherwise it would be a 'still here.'

3. Sustainability.
Ah!, the new buzzword. Again, why do the big mega corporations who create most of the problems get away with keeping us shackled to their products?

Which corporations and which products. I do not argue with the premise alone but I do not see what it has to do with the word. Sustainability is about setting up systems that can continue without your responses to 1 and 2.

4. Green Jobs.
Now this one has me puzzled! I keep seeing ministers talking about the creation of thousands of new jobs in "Green Industries". Where? Doing what and making what they never say. In fact, they can't say at all but it sounds good in the speeches.

Have you tried google? These are jobs based around newer forms of energy such as wind and solar. Google is your friend.

5. Livable cities.
Say what? From what I have seen, it's huge cities that seem to produce the most wastage of energy and pollution.

That would be the reason to make 'livable cities.' That would be an attempt to cut down on the waste produced by cities.

6. Renewables.
Nothing but another buzzword - see number 3.

Sources that can be easily renewed and do not have a finite supply.

7. Clean water, air.
Again, the biggest polluters get tiny fines and carry on as always due to the lobbying money they flash around the politicians.

So we should ignore the idea of clean water and air because of the people that get away with it now?

8. Healthy children.
Yeah, lets get them all medicated and kept dumb to make them all compliant little drones. Better still, lets use the kiddies to push through our climate propaganda - nobody likes to see scared kiddies.
Also, lets keep the food jacked up full of chemical goodies to keep the Pharma, Agri-business and Chemical corporations happy.

It seems you have a great deal on your plate right now so I will just remind you that with drought, it is hard to feed those kiddies and with less land, it will be harder to keep them healthy.

9. etc..etc.
Well, I'm sure they can come up with some other angles the more they pay the PR companies.

I hope so because I would love to hear more of your responses to them.

What if it's NOT a hoax and we have to pay the already rich people money just to NOT breathe polluted air? But, corporations destroying the earth to increase their profit is such a crazy conspiracy theory, right?

Best,
Skunknuts


Destroying the earth the ice caps are melting the sky will fall down next quick give al gore some cash he'll save you

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Aha! Another drone trolling.

Did you even read what I posted? Nowhere did I mention Al Gore or Lizard People from Mars. If that is what you are seeing then I urge you to seek psychiatric help and medication immediately!

Did you even read what I posted? I specifically said you forgot to include those things. This would mean you did NOT write about them so I was reminding you.

You completely miss-read my post and begin yours by berating my reading skills? And with that...you are no more.

Yep. Britguy said it right.

No one is against any of those things listed in your cartoon. The fact is that's the exact way THEY Big Government Elitist want you to think about the people like us who are against this treaty. They want you to believe we must be against all those things if we don't agree with the treaty. This is nothing but Lies, Doublespeak and Misdirection.

We do want those things.. All of those things.. but we do not want to make them come about as a result of a deceptive treaty. The price for our lost freedoms in the long run is way too high.

We can still do all of those things without this treaty and avoid the power plays our Governments are trying to make.

How about we produce electric cars like Tesla built. He used a magnetic motor and got the power from the electrical charge in the atmosphere. No batteries, no fuel. It ran 90 miles an hour and had No emissions. He used a large antenna to power the car through a converter box he made to the magnetic motor. he literally plucked the energy from the sky. This was back in 1936 ! This is the same Free Energy that we can detect with voltmeters running through large TV antenna towers. Any large metal structure picks up this voltage.

No more need for oil and gas for cars except a little grease for some mechanical parts.. and we can synthesize this.

This is just one example of what could have been done a long time ago. but you can't make money on Free Energy so no one wants to do it. Professional debunkers will tell you no one has done it because it won't work. BS. Tons of people saw this work, it was tested for weeks in public. Debunkers will have you believe that Zero Point Energy is not possible and Anti-Gravity is not possible.

They fear this technology because it will put the people they work for out of business. Their whole mission is to discourage people from even trying to figure out how to make these things work and make them practical. Anytime someone tells you something is impossible Never believe them Especially if they are scientist. Science has been disproven again and again throughout history and always a new better theory takes the old model or theories place. It all depends on how you choose to look at something, the models you choose to use and the experiments to test your theories. Nothing is ever absolute.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Yep. Britguy said it right.

No one is against any of those things listed in your cartoon. The fact is that's the exact way THEY Big Government Elitist want you to think about the people like us who are against this treaty. They want you to believe we must be against all those things if we don't agree with the treaty. This is nothing but Lies, Doublespeak and Misdirection.

We do want those things.. All of those things.. but we do not want to make them come about as a result of a deceptive treaty. The price for our lost freedoms in the long run is way too high.

You really need to look around the board, or maybe the country. "Drill baby drill" sound familiar to anyone? There are plenty of people that are more than happy to pollute and anything else they can to be in opposition of that cartoon. Have you not heard the climate change deniers proclaiming that we can treat the planet any way we want because man is not great enough to have an effect on it?

reply to post by Lillydale


I specifically didn't mention Al Gore, or Lizard People from Mars because they have no relevence to this discussion. By implying that I forgot to mention them you seem to suggest that I am some sort of crazy conspiracy nutjob. Oh, wait! Isn't this a conspiracy oriented site?

Bringing irrelevent issues into a discussion does nothing for the issue at hand, it only serves to derail it. Please stick to the point of the thread!

What if it's NOT a hoax and we have to pay the already rich people money just to NOT breathe polluted air? But, corporations destroying the earth to increase their profit is such a crazy conspiracy theory, right?

Best,
Skunknuts

Destroying the earth

the ice caps are melting the sky will fall down next quick give al gore some cash he'll save you

Sorry Bud, but after being called 'chicken little' for the last 8 years, I'm not taking your mocking tone seriously. The sky has already fallen, and the adults of the world are trying to clean-up the tipped-over port-a-potties left by the conservative deniers.

Thanks to your ilk we got massive tax-cuts, tax-payer paid orgies for the military industrial complex, deregulation, total disregard of civil liberties which, predictably, has lead us to where we are.

Furthermore, you spin this massive conspiracy theory that flies in the face of reason, yet I am the one who is claiming that the sky is falling?

Best,
Skunknuts


[edit on 12/19/2009 by skunknuts]

[edit on 12/19/2009 by skunknuts]

Originally posted by skunknuts

What if it's NOT a hoax and we have to pay the already rich people money just to NOT breathe polluted air? But, corporations destroying the earth to increase their profit is such a crazy conspiracy theory, right?

Best,
Skunknuts

Destroying the earth

the ice caps are melting the sky will fall down next quick give al gore some cash he'll save you

Sorry Bud, but after being called 'chicken little' for the last 8 years, I'm not taking your mocking tone seriously. The sky has already fallen, and the adults of the world are trying to clean-up the tipped-over port-a-potties left by the conservative deniers.

Thanks to your ilk we got massive tax-cuts, tax-payer paid orgies for the military industrial complex, deregulation, total disregard of civil liberties which, predictably, has lead us to where we are.

Furthermore, you spin this massive conspiracy theory that flies in the face of reason, yet I am the one who is claiming that the sky is falling?

Best,
Skunknuts


[edit on 12/19/2009 by skunknuts]

[edit on 12/19/2009 by skunknuts]

The only time the sky will fall is if we have to pay al and his crew money to fart im off to hug a tree now that should cheer you up

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Have you not heard the climate change deniers proclaiming that we can treat the planet any way we want because man is not great enough to have an effect on it?

No I have not heard that. But if that is true, then they are not true climate change deniers

I will tell you a little story. A while back Shawn Hannity has a Tv special on the San Joaquin valley water supply. There were tons of people at this rally chanting Turn on the water! They tried to make the case that the EPA shut off the water to the area farmers because of a little fish that is endangered that lived in the area water reserve.

I joined Hannities forum to learn about the issue because my heart went out to the farmers.. they were losing their shirts!

Come to find out that was misdirection. The crowds of people shouting Turn the water on did not represent the family farms, but the Corporate farms that was trying to force the family farms out of business. It had nothing to do with these fish but hundreds of people at the rally were paid to chant this. This was done to confuse the issue and make certain factions look bad.

Come to find out, the water pumps had already been turned on months before.. that was not where the problem the family farms had was coming from. All of this went over Hannities head because he did not do any research. he just jumped on the bandwagon.

You can bet that if there are factions of people out here that say Oh, no global warming.. we can do whatever we like to the planet - then those people are not true believers in the truth behind all of this and they are paid off by someone.


Edit: I do not know why this whole thing is in a quote box, there is no end quote tag at the end of my post.






[edit on 19-12-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

I am saddend and slightly insulted

we all care about the environment. we just dont beleive in an organisation with jurisdiction over the entire earth capable of taxing any country they like any amount of money. We certainly should clean up our act, no question about it but our society simply doesnt work that way. Do you really beleive that there arnt people in charge of massive fortunes who have the power to sway political policy and dont abuse this power for personal gain?

think of it this way. We have only been seriously burning fossil fuels since the industrial revolution, that was only 200 odd years ago. Thats not a lot of time. This is all still quite new to us. Of course we havnt got into balance with nature and the world yet. We still have almost no idea of the impact of anything we do on the environment. The environment is a staggeringly complex system, and it continualy changes, adapts and fluctuates. We influence it and it influences us.

we are living under misguided assumptions that the environment is static and were the ones causing all the change (an arrogant claim), and that we have the technology and knowhow to stop living the way we do. This cant possibly be an over night change. We wont suddenly stop influencing the environment negatively. Its a goal we have to work towards, we need patience. Look how far we have come in cleaning up our act in the last 50 years. This trend will only continue. But it will only continue and improve with progress, and awareness. Taxing people, and giving the already influencial more influence for their personal gain will solve nothing. A global government system will only take away an individuals influence on politics, a loss of national cultures and colour of our civilization.

Environmentalism has almost become a religion, where people millitantly defend it and call others with different opinions and suggestions heretics and plagues on the planet and mankind. This is just the dawn of the technological era. 200 years is the blink of an eye. Its impossible to have no impact on the environment because we are part of it, it will never change... doomsaying and fearmongering isnt going to help, its just going to open up avenues for the selfish amongst us to abuse and exploit your joe everybody.

If the current view on climate change is a hoax it means that people are exploiting us in the name of doing good. And to me thats quite bad. Its like the difference between organised religion selling you your salvation and spirituality.

~TR

edit to add: what do we really want? people to become intelligent and informed enough to not need to be strictly controlled and regulated and be trusted to do the right thing? or enforce stricter regulations and structure so that they dont have to be intelligent or informed?

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Tomb_Raven]