Down with all religion!

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Religion will never leave... beause pain and suffering will never leave.

Religion is an inevitible product of a sentient species.

I disagree that pain and suffering will never leave. IF we shifted to an abundance paradigm...then the only suffering would be of a relationship nature.

My book shows how we can shift to such a paradigm. It's free to read and linked in my sig.

Hey pal get over it even if there is no religion therewill still be wars for political, territorial, and resource reasons

I believe that all religion is just a message, the word of god, that is intended to speak to the soul. All religions it seems the general message is....peace and harmony. Just because a self obsessed person decided to do something that is not peaceful, in the name of his/her religion, should NOT be blamed on religion. Peoples emotions and religions are two completely different subjects and unfortunately religion is generally caught in the middle between conflicting human interaction and emotion.

Originally posted by TaraLou
I think that religion, a manmade tool to control people, is the number one reason why people in this world do not get on together.

It is the number one reason for wars - always has been.

Therefore, it is the number one reason for starvation and suffering.

And it is the number one reason for killing innocents - and I include soldiers in this.

Surely we should get on together and help each other, as human beings?

And surely we should try to save our planet?

Well yes in many ways I agree with you but in many ways I don't.

Wars are fought over land as much as religion.

And although religion does divide people - Many more people are helped by Christian charities who would otherwise starve or die from their disease.

If it were not for the Christians (no, not those same Christians responsible for the Crusades, or the Inquisition) -latter day Christians - we would not have had Mother Theresa, The Red Cross, The Salvation Army, and many other organizations and foundations that are charity based.

Were it not for Christ and the Christian religion we would not have hospitals as we know them. Hospitals were begun by the Christian faith as a means to gather the needy in one place and assist them.

Say what you want about religion - but I do not think left to his own devices man would be as noble on his own.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by rusethorcain]

And another thing...our entire system of LAWS and government is handed down from the "religion" and system of governing brought with the first intelligent inhabitants of the planet. They broke off into many differing factions and the religion they brought is very misunderstood in today's times but concepts such as thou shall not kill or covet your neighbors belongings and the punishment for such crimes was brought here from off-planet. I think if you want to blame someone...blame our forefathers, our ancestors. The first inhabitants of the planet.

I do agree - it is high time to take what is worthwhile from all religion, those factors and laws that are universal and unite us, and uphold them...and totally disregard the rest. Not just disregard the rest but make the REST of the nonsensical teachings and laws criminal. If it does not benefit the whole race as a species...get rid of it. It is antiquated.

Originally posted by TaraLou
I think that religion, a manmade tool to control people, is the number one reason why people in this world do not get on together.

It is the number one reason for wars - always has been.

Therefore, it is the number one reason for starvation and suffering.

And it is the number one reason for killing innocents - and I include soldiers in this.

Surely we should get on together and help each other, as human beings?

And surely we should try to save our planet?

I am going to disagree with parts of this post, yes religions also create wars, well the old ones, but if you look at the time from World War I to Granada, such was not based off of religion, but politcal ideology.
To flat out take away from religion to ban it, it will lead to the downfall of society. I would submit that the number one reason for killing innocents is not from too much religion, but a lack of it.
Religion, on the whole and the majority of the time, if you take it down to its base levels, taking out the parables of such, teaches morality. The concepts of what is right and wrong is there, in its purest form, no matter what the words are, the concepts are there. The idea of something better or worse after death is there as well to guide people who believe to live a good life. I revieved this from someone who is jewish and I believe this sums it up:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.
It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period.. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Hurricane Katrina).. Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'
In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves..
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?

In theory, religion causes some trouble in our world.

But, when you say: "Down with Religion!"
It can be seen as: "Down with belief!"
Okay, ain't humans allowed to believe either now?
Where did the freedom go?

reply to post by 0rigin


I don't think that religion and belief is equivalent. Most likely the OP meant organized religions, i.e churches and so on. Belief is an individual matter. For instance, I believe that I am, even I might not be.

-v

Yes it is,
No it isn't,
Yes it is,
No it isn't,
Yes it is,
No it isn't,
Yes it is,
No it isn't,
Yes it is,
No it isn't...

Blah blah blah, Religion was man made, end of story. It all a load of crap, live your life before it ends that is all I will say.

reply to post by v01i0


It may be true, but I think that religion is something that each individual looks different at (perhaps)
Thus making his/her own belief.
You may believe in yourself, but you may (perhaps) also believe in religion.

reply to post by the_denv

Yes, it is man-made.
Yes, it's all a lot of crap (in our minds)
Yes, it defy a lot of theories.

But: People have the right to believe whatever they want.
It is through hope that belief is born.
And through belief, (perhaps) religion is born.

Uhm, i think this should be in rant

Religion was not ment to control. it was ment to connect.

Sadly, people were unable to correct themselves when they found out new information, so they swept in under the rug. now we have what we have today. religion that means nothing but greed, and people to afraid to do anything about it.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by TaraLou

 

what you're referring to is extremism and it's the minority of religious views....

No. Religion is extremism by itself.

reply to post by watcher73


How would you define extremism?

Extremism is a term used to describe the actions or ideologies of individuals or groups outside the perceived political center of a society; or otherwise claimed to violate common moral standards.[citation needed] In democratic societies, individuals or groups which advocate that democracy should be replaced with some kind of authoritarian regime are usually branded extremists. The term is invariably, or almost invariably, used pejoratively. Extremism is usually contrasted with moderation, and extremists with moderates. (For example, in contemporary discussions in Western countries of Islam, or of Islamic political movements, it is common for there to be a heavy stress on the distinction between extremist and moderate Muslims. It is also not uncommon to necessarily define distinctions regarding extremist Christians as opposed to moderate Christians, as in countries such as the United States). Political agendas perceived as extremist often include those from the far left or far right as well as fundamentalism or, as a more general term, fanaticism.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by 0rigin]

[edit on 19-12-2009 by 0rigin]

Originally posted by 0rigin
reply to post by watcher73

 

How would you define extremism?

With a dictionary.

reply to post by watcher73


Haha, didn't expect that one.

So, you think religion is extremism? Why? How?
I am curious!

Originally posted by 0rigin
reply to post by watcher73

 

Haha, didn't expect that one.

So, you think religion is extremism? Why? How?
I am curious!

Biggest reason I can think of right now is faith. All religious faith is the blind type. Any type of belief system that relies on blind faith is extremist.

Then you could take the fact that people think a magic sky fairy made them. This view is extremist. Especially since it lacks any type of evidence.

Any time you have beliefs held that lack ANY evidence you have extremism.


[edit on 19-12-2009 by watcher73]

It is a reason to control. A reason to keep population undercontrol and not to be scared of death. Death can be a very scary topic if their is nothing to do when you die. So religion was made to make sure humanity was kept undercontrol and so they will be happy that their is something after life.

When you accept that something is FACT, such as religion, or any belief....

You close your mind to other possibilities.
You may say you are open-minded, and listen to claims against your belief, but nothing is essentially going to change your mind.

Example:

Person 1:"I think Jesus was an alien"
Person 2: "Thats an interesting theory, but...."

Its dangerous, and irresponsible to decide that your belief is correct, and except it as fact. In any situation.

But thats just what I think.

Originally posted by TaraLou
I think that religion, a manmade tool to control people, is the number one reason why people in this world do not get on together.

It is the number one reason for wars - always has been.

Therefore, it is the number one reason for starvation and suffering.

And it is the number one reason for killing innocents - and I include soldiers in this.

Surely we should get on together and help each other, as human beings?

And surely we should try to save our planet?

You're confusing "reason" with "excuse". And you're making gross generalizations under the presumption of understanding how any (pick 1, pick them all) major religion was founded.

Your logic is shaky at best, and without anything to back it up other than your common sense/gut instinct, well, you look like an idiot.

I think what would help save my planet would be for people like you to simple die, or failing that, submit for sterilization. I'm not trying to be cruel, but you're clearly agitated with questionable stability regardless. Do you feel, honestly, that you're someone worth saving? Someone who contributes to our society? I mean, you can't even contribute to ATS except by starting threads in the wrong area.

Bye bye.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Meesterjojo]