Down with all religion!

Who killed more people in the bible?

God- 2,038,344
Satan- 10

God broke his own commandment over 2,000,000 times, but he still wants us to follow his rules.

reply to post by paranoiaFTW


Thankfully, God isn't real.

Neither is Satan.

Actually... I could live with a hundred gods... or none at all, as long as there were far less human beings blaming ghosts for their own behavior.

As a reply to the original post...

You cannot dispute the history of damage brought by religion. It is well documented and proves how narrow minded most followers are. This is the main problem that I have with it. Since religion tends to teach that "our god is the only right god", most people hold tight to their beliefs in a way that is detrimental to human progress. Holding on to ancient belief systems does nothing to help us now. For humans to evolve in some kind of positive manner, we most adopt the attitude of "open to everything and attached to nothing". We must be willing to accept each for what we are - humans that have faults. At least at that point, we wouldn't be willing to fight or kill each other over our differences.

The second point I would like to mention is "options". I wonder how many people these days (I've met many) feel themselves losing interest in religion but don't realize that there are other options. I'm not saying you should leave the church just to be an athiest (not that there is anything wrong with that) but do you realize that our true calling is your own personal connection with source, god, or what you want to call it? You don't have to read any book or go anywhere. When you quiet your mind and focus your thoughts, you can access a bliss that you never thought possible. Your true calling is your "spirituality" and when you connect to spirit, you will find the wisdom possible to make your life and everyone else's better. This is where we all need to be to survive our turbulent evolution. For when you connect to spirit, you will learn that we are all truly one...all of us and all of the universe.

Peace & love to all...

reply to post by paranoiaFTW


God doesn't kill anyone. People do.

"Religious" Wars

The Crusades - 50,000-100,000 (pretty light by any standards especially in a war) and it was more so due to the Muslims encroaching upon territory than religion. Muslims were on the warpath to expand their lands.

Protestant & catholic conflicts - 100,000 or so. Mostly about power and land than religion as well, but it was a secondary cause.

Non Religious Wars

Khmer Rouge in Cambodia - 1 million - 2 million. Those were only those killed in battle doesn't even include starvation.

Nazis - 6 million up to 17 million and they weren't all Jews.

Stalinist Party - 3 million to 60 million

Chinese Revolution - 30 million to 60 million

The list goes on and on and on. Do I need to find more data? Sources?

www.reason4living.com...

www.christianaction.org.za...

I can find more if you want. If you ignore these simple facts you are being delusional. Religion for the most part results in fewer deaths in a conflict because guess what. Religious people are MORE inclined to VALUE human life. God also gave man the right to defend their country. War is not a sin when it is in defense.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by av8r007]

Originally posted by paranoiaFTW
Who killed more people in the bible?

God- 2,038,344
Satan- 10

God broke his own commandment over 2,000,000 times, but he still wants us to follow his rules.

:down: where did this number come from anyways? God is allowed to break his own commandment. It's God's rules. and are you including the crusades or the christian slayings of others? that doesn't count. You obviously haven't read the bible.

A fool says in his heart: there is no God.

Originally posted by paranoiaFTW
Who killed more people in the bible?

God- 2,038,344
Satan- 10

God broke his own commandment over 2,000,000 times, but he still wants us to follow his rules.

God's commandments are for man not God. And being the creator of all things-including Satan himself, God can give and take life as God sees fit because he is in infinitely wise and infinitely compassionate.

This is what those who have faith are taught. Why don't you read the bible and understand the concept of God and Christianity before you try to discredit it.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by IAF101]

As someone who reads the bible and believes that all the answers are there and not in a cult man made corporate money laundering religion I agree with the fact that religions are false.

That being said, somehow I wonder if what you are saying is C O D E for "don't believe in God"? Usually when I see these posts that is the ACTUAL intent of the individual who places the post. This is done in worship to their own "ACTUAL RELIGION" satanism, wiccan, atheism, etc. The joke of it is that many of these folks actually have their own religion yet they are telling others not to believe in Religion, aka GOD.

Religion is not God and God is definitely NOT religions of today OR yesterday. Religions are a PONZI SCHEME. Belief in our Creator is very simply that, belief in our Creator. It does not need to be commercialized or turned into something that causes a person to feel they are special compared to everyone else. Actually we are all nothing in life and not deserving of life given the horrible things we do day in and day out in our imperfect and selfish state, however we are everything in Yahuwah's eyes.

By the way, I simply say, "Read the bible daily and pray". Not to get preachy or teachy, however please read Jeremiah 10:1-10... Remember, Yahuwah speaks to those who will hear him.

May we all stay alert and aware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by TaraLou
I think that religion, a manmade tool to control people, is the number one reason why people in this world do not get on together.

It is the number one reason for wars - always has been.

Therefore, it is the number one reason for starvation and suffering.

And it is the number one reason for killing innocents - and I include soldiers in this.

Surely we should get on together and help each other, as human beings?

And surely we should try to save our planet?

Religion is a part of human evolution. It is an essential part of human-ity. Faith gives millions hope when they are faced with despair. It gave all out ancestors the will to go on, when they were confronted with certain death. It helped bring structure and order to savages who had no taboos and no morality. It helped tame the human soul!

Believe in God or not but no man in his right mind can claim religion hasn't done a HUGE amount of good for humanity. While it is easy to argue that religion has killed a LOT of people, it is equally easy to show that millions of homeless, destitute and people lost in despair have found peace, solace and hope from religion. These are important properties even if they can't be as easily quantifiable as a death toll. Millions of missionaries though out the ages have helped spread concepts like charity, self sacrifice, kindness etc to the betterment and elevation of the quality of life for many millions, even if they did bring with them some death and disease. While religion has brought about conflicts and a lot of death, it would be have been impossible to have the kind of society we enjoy today without religion.

While you ask people to get along without religion today, you fail to realize that to come to reach the state where one human being would act outside their own immediate self interest to help another took millennia of religious indoctrination to structure society and its values today. Religion makes it much more easy to help each other and act with enlightened self interest because it uses a hypothetical risk-reward strategy to train our minds to follow its precepts.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by IAF101]

+++DISINFO AGENT ALERT++
Such a sweeping generalization could on be made by a naïve fool or a calculating DiSiNFO agent looking to spread dissention amongst our ranks.

Once again its a new member who has such a problem with religion.until recently muslims, jews, christians, buhdists, wiccans, native americans and others could offer their perspectives without being attacked.

Taralou, I'd love to think you were just a doe-eyed freshman girl with a couple 1st year science and political affairs classes under your belt from a liberal university.

Most likely you are an overweight male with a ruddy complexion from too much single malt scotch. Your name is probably Alastair. You suffer from ego mania, greed and an inferiority complex.

I can practically hear you thinking "If those mindless religious types knew what I know, they'd be miserable too. They don't deserve the oxygen they breathe."

I'm on to you Alastair. That's the new name I'm using for every malicious, misanthropic, malcontent. Say hello to Alastair everybody. God bless you. You need it more than anyone. I love you but I don't like you.

Originally posted by IAF101
Religion is a part of human evolution. It is an essential part of human-ity. Faith gives millions hope when they are faced with despair. It gave all out ancestors the will to go on, when they were confronted with certain death. It helped bring structure and order to savages who had no taboos and no morality. It helped tame the human soul!

Believe in God or not but no man in his right mind can claim religion hasn't done a HUGE amount of good for humanity. While it is easy to argue that religion has killed a LOT of people, it is equally easy to show that millions of homeless, destitute and people lost in despair have found peace, solace and hope from religion. These are important properties even if they can't be as easily quantifiable as a death toll. Millions of missionaries though out the ages have helped spread concepts like charity, self sacrifice, kindness etc to the betterment and elevation of the quality of life for many millions, even if they did bring with them some death and disease. While religion has brought about conflicts and a lot of death, it would be have been impossible to have the kind of society we enjoy today without religion.

While you ask people to get along without religion today, you fail to realize that to come to reach the state where one human being would act outside their own immediate self interest to help another took millennia of religious indoctrination to structure society and its values today. Religion makes it much more easy to help each other and act with enlightened self interest because it uses a hypothetical risk-reward strategy to train our minds to follow its precepts.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by IAF101]

The Spanish Conquistadors (to name but one group that utilized missionaries)would be happy to know that someone still believes that only their morals and taboos need apply.

It's time to leave the dark ages behind us and embrace humanity in its many variations.
Please check your thinly veiled bigotry, known as religion, at the door.

Originally posted by TaraLou
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

You say I am referring to extremism? Yes I am.

I am referring to the church, and to the men - not women - who have set up that church.

These men are controlling and mean - get out of it right now.

Whatever happened to you is unfortunate, but you need to stop painting the majority of the population of the earth with the same brush. It will eat you up inside and may have done so already.

I and many if not most others had a positive experience. You should find a way to deal with whatever made you so bitter that you make statements like the one above.

You won't find your answers on ATS.

Religion: rely on external man made conditions

Spirituality: rely on personal connection to source

I do not agree that religion has done more to help humanity as just stated. Let's look at judgement... It is so hypacrytical that ones faith can preach compassion and unconditional love yet is so quick to condemn persons that don''t follow their doctrine or fit their mold. How about homosexuals? we should love everyone...but them, because the good book says so. Where's the common sense? That's what I'm asking people to look at. Do you need a book to teach you logic? Do you believe everything you read or everything someone tells you? Think for yourself and forget what you have been taught. Every person has the right to exist; whether they or religious or not...gay or straight...black or white.

Also...if you research the earliest organized institutions of religion/theology you will find that religion was created to have control over the masses. To literally put "the fear of god" into people is the easiest way to control them. Over time is has just become accepted as legit...because it is what you have been told and taught. The easiest cop-out is to convince people not to question their "faith" that things aren't always easy to explain and it is sacreligious to do so. I tell you that it is your duty as a human being to QUESTION EVERYTHING about your existance. To simply believe without knowing is foolish. I apologize for those I have offended by the wording but it is time to wake up and take control of destiny to make a better world NOW.

Originally posted by CTBAPRBR
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

Almost right, the religion is based on a book , who nobody dare to question. Once people realize that the book is wrong, religion will starve to death.

You cannot say the book is naturally wrong. However, you can say that MAN'S INTERPRETATION OF THE BOOK is wrong...so is it the book..or man? is it the WORD or is it the FLESH? Choose wisely...

reply to post by the_denv


Isn't it funny that you can't see past the label and view the fruits for what they are...? Isn't it funny that you take their word that they are "Christian" but don't take time to examine the fruits of their labors...Isn't it funny.....?

reply to post by YAHUWAH SAVES


I call myself Witch, but I do not follow "religion" nor do I say NOT to believe in God, God Herself is within all of us, I preach for seeking a PERSONAL connection with the Divine. One of the reasons I stopped going to church was because I didn't see the necessity of sitting there for an hour listening to SOMEONE ELSE'S interpretation of what MY beliefs should be. A book may be able to guide me to a certain place or thought process, but it will NEVER be as strong as that of a personal relationship with our Godself, that is not something one can just read in a book, it must be experienced, and each one of us has our own experiences that led us to whatever place we are now.

As far as blind faith goes? I do not follow based on blind faith, the experiences I've had with the Divine have proven to me without a doubt where I stand and what I am a part of, I can't say the same for anyone else. I do not fear death because that is the cycle of life, all life on this planet follows that rule. To be born, to live, to die it is all part of a natural cycle, and that concept is hard for some to accept, "if God is so good why must we suffer", because suffering is a part of growing up and it's a tough pill to swallow, but it is neither a thing of evil, nor is it a thing of good, it just IS, and we have to learn to accept and grow from that to respect it and take it as another of life's lessons.

I believe in reincarnation, why? Because I believe that energy is neither created nor destroyed, but reused, since I am made up of energy where does that return to? My physical body will decay and serve as nourishment for the Earth, my spirit/essence/energy will be reused by the universe as She sees fit.

As far as blame and responsibility? I don't blame the Goddess for wrongdoings in my life, they were decisions I made as an individual, therefore the consequences are none but MY OWN, I have no one to blame but MYSELF.

I believe religion has done a lot for our world, but like everything else it has it's own unique balance, the good for the bad and vice versa, Spirituality on the other hand is quite different, you may get rid of religion, but you will never take away that which is ingrained in our psyche. Sure you can choose to believe in nothing but yourself (contrary to what many believe, Satanism is somewhat similar to this in that they believe their very being to be Divine, needing no outside deity to shadow that, they create their own reality through their personal power), or believe in something greater than you. There is a saying that goes something like, "if you cannot find it within, you will not find without", many of us have chosen to look within ourselves and face that which most people fear, ourselves!

My boyfriend and I often discuss religion versus belief etc., one of the things that I bring up (which is a theory of my own), is that certain people are wired a certain way ("wired" being a metaphor, I know how all you ats'ers like to pick at wording, myself included!), for me, the belief in something greater is as natural as breathing, it wasn't something that was taught to me, because if that were the case, I would have abandoned "religion" a long time ago. It is something I sought out, and still do because I believe we never stop learning, never stop evolving. For others, the fact that there is no God comes just as naturally, and like oil and water the two do not mix.

And as far as that whole "cat dog god" thing that was going on a few pages back, COME ON dude, it's an interesting thought to have, but personally, I don't think there is a need to go that far. What you're doing is comparing human beings to dogs, or cats. Not going to lie, we are animals, but we are a far different animal than those which you speak of. I believe they are already a part of Nature, it is man that has disconnected himself from the Divine.

Which brings me to another thought, but one that really doesn't need to be discussed here, other than to mention our ancestors, before RELIGION existed, they worshipped not because they were told to(although at some point I'm sure they were, as with all things there are extremists in all walks and times of life), but because it was the natural thing to do, give thanks to the Earth for providing a means of livelihood, their entire way of life was decided by the turning of the seasons, the cycles of the moon (hell most farmers still plant their crops by the phases of the moon even today!). Something often said is "yesterday's magic is today's science". What seemed the unexplained back then is simple scientific fact now, does that make it any less valid?

By the way, RELIGION may equate to GOD, but GOD IS NOT RELIGION, GOD is within us, and within Nature. You cannot control God, you can't just simply title Her as "religion", She is more than that, as someone said earlier "religion" simply is a means to reconnect with the Divine (though the word and usage has been twisted beyond recognition, and I myself do not believe in any one "religion").

On that note, I think the OP actually advocates for the right to choose which path to take to the Divine, instead of listening to the masses, go within yourself and find out your own truths, albeit, opening up a can of worms while he was at it. Sorry for the huge response, 10 pages worth of thinking up responses will do that to a girl lol!

Anywho, that's my $.02, take it or leave it, ultimately you have that choice

Blessed Be,
_J

edit to add:
One MUST question things, that is the true art of evolution, without questions, where would we find answers? We need more philosophers in this time, we need more QUESTIONS

[edit on 19-12-2009 by bandaidctrl]

Originally posted by Bilw85
A fool says in his heart: there is no God.

But the lunatic holds you down and screams that there is, lol

Originally posted by av8r007
ACTUALLY! More people have been killed by atheists than all of the Crusades and religious wars EVER. If you dare look it up otherwise I WILL back up my claims.

But there has never been a war or anyone killed in the name of Atheists - so there you go. Back up away on that one buddy.

Originally posted by audas
It is hard for Christians to understand how atheists see religion - but here is an excellent demonstration of exactly what religion is those who think rather than have faith -

People need to watch this.