Avatar – A Masterpiece With A Spiritually Profound Message!

Best movie I have ever seen by far.

I know that's a bold thing for me to say, but it's true.

It's a beautiful masterpiece and its message is poignant.

If you haven't seen this movie, i strongly suggest you do.

If for any reason this movie is not successful, it will undoubtedly be because the people watching it are simply not "on the level".

FYI this is NOT a kids movie. I couldn't believe that some parents brought their young children to see this . . .

[edit on 12/26/2009 by JPhish]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

I think your view of Pagan religion is a bit distorted to say the least. I would invite you to so some research into it, and maybe talk to a few Pagans.

Paganism and Shamanism(which you probably include under Paganism) do have some very beautiful and spiritual aspects to it. Indeed, some "evil" thing are also a part of them such as animal and human sacrifice, which tend to be part of the earlier versions. However, other Pagan type of religions and modern versions do not have animal and human sacrifice. The Pagan ethic is about being one with nature and flowing with nature. I personally find that very spiritual.

You should bear in mind non pagan religions like Christianity and Islam have a more evil history than Pagan religions have had.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]

The total disconnect people display today from their past history which of course breeds ignorance, pain suffering and the recycling of the same mistakes over and over, is amazing these days.
Christianity is nothing more than 2 or 3 different pagan religious systems blended in to one. It was pagan religion that evolved in to Christianity. Islam sprung with different sets of doctrines in mind but from same influences to serve pretty much the same goals.
Since people don't even know what Christianity or Islam is, how can they advertise some kind of reconnection to some random pagan ideal?
Especially Christianity, how it really functions, how it connects with most ancient religions? Talking about Catholicism. Should be a joke. It's a totally watered down version of what Christianity should have been. A "safe" religion, an "easy" religion. Just what the fast food people need these days. Take your communion effortlessly and feel the passions of Christ through all the paraphernalia which in reality are just products for acquirement of wealth distributed by the Catholic Corporation, take that along with your hamburger from the store across the street opposite to your Sunday religious meeting place and you're set. A supermarket religion.

Talking about the blind leading the blind.
No wonder a cartoon movie sounds more thrilling than a sermons speech at a Sunday church meeting. That's what Christian religion, namely the Catholic religion has come down to. I am sorry that I am using such heavy words, but Catholicism has destroyed Christianity.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by spacebot]

Originally posted by Perplexity
reply to post by misfitoy

 

I've heard they have stricken a deal for a trilogy.

Yea, I'm seeing a growing number of posts on the net mentioning a trilogy. It sounds like Avatar 2 and 3 will follow Jake and Neytiri and 'possibly' go on to other moons around Polyphemus besides Pandora, maybe even underground... but it's all still up in the air. As long as it doesn't get too repetitive, it's great entertainment and I look forward to any possible sequels.

Apparently, Cameron is also working on a movie along the name of Battle Angel as well. This man sure keeps busy!

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

I think your view of Pagan religion is a bit distorted to say the least. I would invite you to so some research into it, and maybe talk to a few Pagans.

Paganism and Shamanism(which you probably include under Paganism) do have some very beautiful and spiritual aspects to it. Indeed, some "evil" thing are also a part of them such as animal and human sacrifice, which tend to be part of the earlier versions. However, other Pagan type of religions and modern versions do not have animal and human sacrifice. The Pagan ethic is about being one with nature and flowing with nature. I personally find that very spiritual.

You should bear in mind non pagan religions like Christianity and Islam have a more evil history than Pagan religions have had.

I do agree with your objection that a filmmaker that makes a film celebrating nature worshipping type culture, would themselves sponsor the same exploitation and capitalism is hypocritical to an extent. But I think it is unfair to pin this on James Cameron itself. It's his producers that commision the manufacture the plastic toys etc to promote the film. Even if he sincerely believes in the philosophy of the Navi, he has no choice but to be part of the system. You can use the system as a necessary evil to promote a message of goodness.

There is no wisdom in being a total Luddite and rejecting all technology, all consumerism, all capitalism. We have to use the current system even if our aim is to transcend it.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]

I think I know exactly what paganism is, and I know quite well what shamanism is, because I used to be an occultist myself, and thank God he saved me from that.

The Gaia worship, New Age neo-paganism, especially "shamanism", is witchcraft, plain and simple. Contacting and channeling and gaining power from the spiritual dark side. The imps have you fooled into thinking they are tree spirits or Space Brothers or whatever, but they are nothing but evil.

Nature is dualist, containing both positive and negative aspects, as are we humans, and everyone claims to hates the negative aspects like war, but then we have a bunch of pagans who celebrate dualism and say if we just get balanced with nature than we will have peace and love.

Bullcrap. We are already balanced with nature, all of nature is at war, watch some video of crocs taking down wildebeest and lions taking down antelope. There is no balance in nature, there are neverending shifting imbalances, predator/prey population ratios going up and down, weather systems based on never ending imbalances. A virus is a very natural thing, and humanity has often been compared to a virus.

Spiritually speaking, there is no balance. Good and Evil are opposed, and if anyone wants a world of true peace and love, then Evil would have to be taken out of the equation. If you worship nature, then you are worshipping dualism, you are worshipping the world as it is and accepting the negative, accepting Evil. Nature is corrupted by the same negative side that humanity is corrupted by.

The very fabric of reality has to be changed to remove the negative, in order to ever have a perfect world, a paradise.

That is why the Na'Vi are a joke, the entire idea of them is a joke, it is total bullcrap, it is not reality, and in truth, Avatar is a sinister lie that is infecting gullible naive minds, a tool of pagan occultists to lead people into CONTINUING THE EVIL BY WORSHIPPING DUALIST NATURE.

I don't want to take away from James Cameron's Avatar. Seriously, if you think about an artist producing a work of art, then James Cameron has produced a visual masterpiece. It's a visual mindblower.

But, story-wise, it aint that deep.

It's a little Lord of the Rings, it's a little Medicine Man, it's a little Alien, it's a little Apocalypto, it's a little bit of cliché from many, many storylines. It's Disneyesque on one level, this big, bad, jungle-crunching juggernaut of humanity versus these sweet and statuesque forest nymphs.

Seriously, the story came off like every story that attempts to teach us to treat the world more kindly — you know, the world is sentient, it can shrug us off like fleas if it wants.

This is an old story, not very deep, not very heart-rending, just a eco-protest movie. In essence.

But visually stunning. Certainly, the high end of CGI. Groundbreaking effects all the way through. It's undeniably beautiful, a masterpiece of color and sound and action and fantasy...but it aint deep.



— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity

But visually stunning. Certainly, the high end of CGI. Groundbreaking effects all the way through. It's undeniably beautiful, a masterpiece of color and sound and action and fantasy...but it aint deep.

Couldn't agree more. The visual effects are amazing....the CGI is lifelike. The story was good...but as you stated...it's all been done before. After 20 mins into the movie I completely forgot that I had the 3D glasses on.

It was a "humans are bad and destroy nature and all living things" movie...but at least it was done well.

Two thumbs up.

I don't think many thought the main plot was supposed to be original -- but just because the story isn't original, doesn't mean it's a bad story. The whole point was to tell that same good old story that we all like in a completely different way, on a completely different level.

And of course any "spiritually profound message" that's talked about is referring to elements in the side story to do with 'collective consciousness', 'oneness with nature', etc. Which might not be that original in itself, especially to those of us who have done a lot of reading on the subject... but to see it conveyed in such a huge film as Avatar is pretty much unheard of.

A lot deeper than just an "eco-protest" -- more like real evolution!

[edit on 27/12/09 by Navieko]

On the issue of the story line, if nothing else its taken us to the opposite side of where we once were -- and that's a good thing.

Once in cowboys and indians the indians were the bad guys. In Avatar its us. That is closer to reality.

Once in war movies, the other guys were the bad guys, the instigators. In Avatar its us. That is also closer to reality.

Once, not too long ago, it was the other guys who were the terrorists. Now its us. Its about time more westerners faced up to that reality and opened their eyes to the lies big money has been feeding us.

This movie does represent some progress on the truth in fiction front.

i liked the film

but in the end of the day its just space pocahontas with increadable eye candy n cgi nothing really new or profound. Also its not a spiritual bond if you can actually physically interface with nature

~TR

That is why the Na'Vi are a joke, the entire idea of them is a joke, it is total bullcrap, it is not reality, and in truth, Avatar is a sinister lie that is infecting gullible naive minds, a tool of pagan occultists to lead people into CONTINUING THE EVIL BY WORSHIPPING DUALIST NATURE.

Does dualism necessarily have to be an evil thing? The relationship between man and god, a lover and his beloved is also dual is it not?

I still don't think you understand the Pagan philosophy. The Pagans do not worship the visible nature, but the spirit behind nature. If you are talking to Pagans who say that they literally emulate nature by become savages and engaging in wanton violence, then they do not really understand the principles of Paganism. A Pagan tries to flow with the spirit of nature by emulating the rhythms of life. Such as living in harmony with the changing seasons and giving thanks to the spirit of the sun, moon, earth. This is very much how the Na'vi live. Did you really get the impression that they lived like savages? No, they lived in harmony with the spirit of their planet.
They were very loving and respectful to each other, had great sense of family and at the same time could maintain their independence.

Some of Cameron's inspirations behind Avatar are mentioned in Avatar Wiki~

"Avatar is centered around the themes of imperialism and biodiversity. Cameron has said that Avatar shares themes with 'At Play in the Fields of the Lord', and 'The Emerald Forest', which feature clashes between cultures and civilizations, and acknowledged the film's connection with 'Dances With Wolves', where a battered soldier finds himself drawn to the tribal culture he was initially fighting against."

I've also noticed some posts commenting about the use of the term "shock and awe" being used in the movie. Wiki touched on that as well~

"The film also contains implicit criticism of America's conduct in the War on Terror and the impersonal nature of mechanized warfare in general, as acknowledged by Cameron. Although Cameron had said this was not the main point of Avatar, he did add that Americans had a "moral responsibility" to understand the impact of their country's recent military campaigns and those killed during them. In reference to the use of the term "shock and awe" in the film, Cameron stated, "We know what it feels like to launch the missiles. We don't know what it feels like for them to land on our home soil, not in America. I think there's a moral responsibility to understand that." Cameron additionally noted how mechanized warfare allows one "the ability to do warfare at a distance, at a remove, which seems to make it morally easier to deal with, but it's not".

Lots of interesting reading in the link for anyone who really enjoyed the movie.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

That is why the Na'Vi are a joke, the entire idea of them is a joke, it is total bullcrap, it is not reality, and in truth, Avatar is a sinister lie that is infecting gullible naive minds, a tool of pagan occultists to lead people into CONTINUING THE EVIL BY WORSHIPPING DUALIST NATURE.

Does dualism necessarily have to be an evil thing? The relationship between man and god, a lover and his beloved is also dual is it not?

I still don't think you understand the Pagan philosophy. The Pagans do not worship the visible nature, but the spirit behind nature. If you are talking to Pagans who say that they literally emulate nature by become savages and engaging in wanton violence, then they do not really understand the principles of Paganism. A Pagan tries to flow with the spirit of nature by emulating the rhythms of life. Such as living in harmony with the changing seasons and giving thanks to the spirit of the sun, moon, earth. This is very much how the Na'vi live. Did you really get the impression that they lived like savages? No, they lived in harmony with the spirit of their planet.
They were very loving and respectful to each other, had great sense of family and at the same time could maintain their independence.

Yes, dualism is an evil thing, because it is half evil. One rotten apple ruins the whole bunch, and dualism is celebrating a half rotten bunch of apples.

Man and Woman do not equate to Positive and Negative. Most women would agree with me.

The pagan philosophy you are presenting in completely contradictory. If you celebrate dualism then you must celebrate the evil side of dualism.

You can't take the positive side of nature and celebrate that alone and then say that nature itself is good and you are worshipping nature as a whole, because nature is both positive and negative.

The society of the Na'vi is an impossible fairytale because they are worshipping dualist nature while living only positivity. It isn't reality. No such culture ever has or ever will exist in dualist nature.

War, disease, starvation and slavery are utterly natural. Nature is merciless. Kill or be killed. Dominate or be dominated. There can be no Utopia in dualist nature.

The history of mankind shows the effects of non-naive, non-hypocritical and non-delusional paganism. The worship of gods of war alongside goddesses of love. The human sacrifices, the constant cycles of war and domination.

The ancient pagans prayed to the god of their specific tribe or nation to give them the power to dominate those around them. Because if they weren't the dominators, they were being dominated.

That is Nature. If you enjoy never-ending cycles of war, then dualist nature worship is for you.

If you do not enjoy never-ending cycles of war, then you must look for the eventual triumph of Good over Evil, the End of Duality.

Originally posted by Chainmaker
That is Nature. If you enjoy never-ending cycles of war, then dualist nature worship is for you.

If you do not enjoy never-ending cycles of war, then you must look for the eventual triumph of Good over Evil, the End of Duality.

Wrong. Both good and evil are absolutely necessary for our continuation in progression/evolution... and I don't just mean in the physical plane of existence. How could one possibly learn and progress in an existence where dualism does not exist? As the saying goes, "we learn from our mistakes".

It's only through our most painful experiences in life, that we can even come to acknowledge/appreciate the most beautiful things in life.

We're here for a reason -- we're here to learn. Whether we choose to accept it or not, dualism is necessary and ultimately a good thing. The world of Pandora perhaps have progressed much further to the point where dualism isn't as necessary -- they've "earned" their time of paradise, no matter how long it lasts for.



[edit on 27/12/09 by Navieko]

Originally posted by Chainmaker

The society of the Na'vi is an impossible fairytale because they are worshipping dualist nature while living only positivity. It isn't reality. No such culture ever has or ever will exist in dualist nature.

War, disease, starvation and slavery are utterly natural. Nature is merciless. Kill or be killed. Dominate or be dominated. There can be no Utopia in dualist nature.

I'm beginning to wonder if I saw the same movie as you...
You make it sound like the Na'vi live in a world where everything dances around like fairies while pooping rainbows.

Did you notice how many things tried to eat Jake for breakfast, lunch, and dinner during his first 24 hours there? He was told he was "making noise like a child" and was called a "skxwang" for a reason. The Na'vi live in a dangerous world where they have to be very careful, as well as, 'kill or be killed'. Their choice to be close with nature, and not kill any more than necessary, is hardly 'living only in positivity'.

Originally posted by Navieko
Wrong. Both good and evil are absolutely necessary for our continuation in progression/evolution... and I don't just mean in the physical plane of existence. How could one possibly learn and progress in an existence where dualism does not exist? As the saying goes, "we learn from our mistakes".

It's only through our most painful experiences in life, that we can even come to acknowledge/appreciate the most beautiful things in life.

We're here for a reason -- we're here to learn. Whether we choose to accept it or not, dualism is necessary and ultimately a good thing. The world of Pandora perhaps have progressed much further to the point where dualism isn't as necessary -- they've "earned" their time of paradise, no matter how long it lasts for.

There is no progression, no evolution toward peace, because that is unnatural in dualist nature. Human history has remained the same the entire time, never-ending cycles of violence. The only progression has been technological knowledge, that simply amplifies our potential for good or evil. It doesn't take away the evil.

You are correct that we learn from evil. We each learn what it is, and we each choose to shun it or embrace it. The only possible progression is actually a regression. The desire to regress to a state without the Knowledge of Good and Evil, to leave Duality and enter a place of Pure Good, without the knowledge of evil.

If duality is to be celebrated, if evil is said to be necessary, then Hitler was necessary, and we need another good holocaust every few generations so everyone can keep learning how bad that is.

Even if every member of one generation learned that evil was bad and became completely good (which has never happened because the evil ones of every generation learn that they can gain wealth and power by evil manipulations) the next generation would have to learn all over again.

That's why history is a cycle of holocausts, and why, again, if you want a final end to it, you can't be worshipping nature as it is.,

Instead, you have to take that yinyang, remove the black side, remove the black dot from the white side, and worship the white side.





[edit on 28-12-2009 by Chainmaker]

Originally posted by misfitoy

Originally posted by Chainmaker

The society of the Na'vi is an impossible fairytale because they are worshipping dualist nature while living only positivity. It isn't reality. No such culture ever has or ever will exist in dualist nature.

War, disease, starvation and slavery are utterly natural. Nature is merciless. Kill or be killed. Dominate or be dominated. There can be no Utopia in dualist nature.

I'm beginning to wonder if I saw the same movie as you...
You make it sound like the Na'vi live in a world where everything dances around like fairies while pooping rainbows.

Did you notice how many things tried to eat Jake for breakfast, lunch, and dinner during his first 24 hours there? He was told he was "making noise like a child" and was called a "skxwang" for a reason. The Na'vi live in a dangerous world where they have to be very careful, as well as, 'kill or be killed'. Their choice to be close with nature, and not kill any more than necessary, is hardly 'living only in positivity'.

What I'm saying is that dualist nature includes the nature of evil in every individual, and that it is a total fairy tale that every individual of the Na'Vi would choose positive actions.

That has never and will never happen in any dualist reality.

No matter what planet we are talking about, if the people have the Knowledge of Good and Evil in a dual reality, you will see exactly what you see on planet earth with humans.

The only way to have that paradise of positivity is if the individuals have no free will and are essentially robots.

The NWO knows this, that's why they plan on having a completely controlled computer-chipped population.

But they are evil, and they will not surrender their free will, no, they will be the master race elite with a population of slaves who gave up their freedom chasing a dream of Gaia-worship.

Reference: Denver Airport murals, Georgia Guidestones

The only hope for Paradise lies not in dualist nature, but in the spiritual beyond, and Paradise can only exist in the complete and total absence of Evil.

Originally posted by Chainmaker

What I'm saying is that dualist nature includes the nature of evil in every individual, and that it is a total fairy tale that every individual of the Na'Vi would choose positive actions.

That's just it... I did see negative actions. I saw many Na'vi attack and kill other living things. I saw a Na'vi sneer at another for cheering Jake on. I saw a Na'vi laugh while Jake was being flung over a deadly cliffside.... I just don't see that as 'positive' actions. Meh, maybe it's just me. But thanks for sharing your view with me.

As for the NWO stuff, well, that's a whole other thread...

Originally posted by misfitoy

Originally posted by Chainmaker

What I'm saying is that dualist nature includes the nature of evil in every individual, and that it is a total fairy tale that every individual of the Na'Vi would choose positive actions.

That's just it... I did see negative actions. I saw many Na'vi attack and kill other living things. I saw a Na'vi sneer at another for cheering Jake on. I saw a Na'vi laugh while Jake was being flung over a deadly cliffside.... I just don't see that as 'positive' actions. Meh, maybe it's just me. But thanks for sharing your view with me.

As for the NWO stuff, well, that's a whole other thread...

Ok lets modify that to the overwhelmingly vast majority of Na'vi individual actions and culture in general being a positive utopia of fairness and nonviolence and rejection of negative use of technology.

The Na'Vi have free will yet are tremendously weighted toward positivity in a dualist reality, and that is not reality, it's only possible in a fictional story.

And thanks for listening, and I decided to throw in a little NWO stuff because I have a point to make in attacking the faux spirituality of this movie, and it's not to defend corporatism and warfare and environmental destruction.

Originally posted by Chainmaker
There is no progression, no evolution toward peace, because that is unnatural in dualist nature. Human history has remained the same the entire time, never-ending cycles of violence. The only progression has been technological knowledge, that simply amplifies our potential for good or evil. It doesn't take away the evil.

Firstly let me make clear, I believe there are two realities in which we 'interact' with simultaneously -- both as real as the other.

1. The physical reality
2. The spiritual reality

If we're talking only about the physical reality, I agree with you. There is no way of escaping or progressing passed the world of dualism. The physical reality and dualism are one and the same thing... or to make it more clearly, I believe the entire purpose for the existence of our physical reality in the first place, is to experience dualism.

Why? To expand/progress our consciousness in the spiritual reality. I don't know what your beliefs are, and I'm not prepared to say I know enough for certain that I'd ever give my beliefs some kind of label. But one thing that really resonates with me, is that there is more to our existence then just the physical.

We're here for a purpose, a mission -- both individually and collectively. In order to facilitate this purpose, we need to experience a dualistic world -- plain and simple.

You ask if Hitler's reign of terror was necessary? Definitely. Does that mean if I was given the situation to stop him, I wouldn't? Absolutely not. I believe if I was given that opportunity, it was given for a reason -- he was meant to be stopped.

The fact that everything has happened the way it's happened tells me it was meant to be. A lesson learnt. An experience, an emotion, under our belt -- all the more wiser for it. Maybe that means things will change or be different in the future -- or maybe not. Maybe we didn't learn well enough.

But that's the beauty of it. The dualistic existence is the perfect classroom for all us students to learn -- and to experience our consciousness on a whole new level.

ok going back to the first post in this thread. i agree the movie was absolutely brilliant and yes i'd say there were alot of decent underlying themes. however god was not one of them. if you pay close attention to the description of eywa it really has nothing to do with a god in the way you are talking.

more like mother earth. all the trees and plants on the planet are interconnected and have some fancy bio-energy running through them that the natives can feel. they say that the planet has more connections then the human brain so im guessing it has some sort of collective intelligence and some sort of global influence on the flora and fauna.