Communism, there is no worse destiny for mankind.

reply to post by Tiger5


Do you know Marx was a disenfranchised dissident.
Banned from his homeland often as well as his posse members.
Locked up bank robbers and murderers.
His posse was Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin.
They were freekin Terrorists of the first order.
Lenin was ashamed to use his own birth name.
Marx's writings are a continuous attempt to over throw the German democracy.
They were used to incite. That's all. If you hear it often enough it must be true??
The Bolsheviks were monsters murdering the Tzar and his helpless family.
They stripped Russians right out of their religious freedoms as well.
You admire these Communists???. Shame on you.

it all comes down to whether or not you believe the darwinian theory of evolution or not
marx's ideology was based on it

reply to post by gdeed


Actually the reason why communist countries are so ineffective is because of the clumsiness of state planning coupled with Stalin's legacy of anti genetic thought. Soviet genetics was kept in stasis because Stalin was against genetic on ideological grounds.

The myth of welfare moms and those who do not wish to work is just that. The major of people in America that are not currently working are decent and upright people. What kind of jackass will want to stay on welfare??????

To keep trotting out the joys of welfare is a corrupt and falacious argue ment that frankly attacks ethnic minority as "welfare receivers" have often become a racist codeword.

Furthermore I have sat down and talked with welfare recipients in Harlem, brooklyn and south Miami. How many here have done so?

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by gdeed

 

Furthermore I have sat down and talked with welfare recipients in Harlem, brooklyn and south Miami. How many here have done so?

Doesn't matter. It doesn't give you any better perspective on things. If anything it taints your opinion.

First-hand expereince is better than second hand assumption. Most of the unemployed need to work as welfare receipt is dehumanising, humiliating and pandering to the work stereotypes of class/race hatred.

Besides who would not want money in a capitalist society????

Do you believe the myth of welfare recipients being scroungers or workshy?

T

Originally posted by harlinskee
it all comes down to whether or not you believe the darwinian theory of evolution or not
marx's ideology was based on it

So explain why then capitalism more closely matches the Darwinian theory of survival of the fittest than does communism. Communism in my opinion is mostly against natural law.

Since capitalism is in lock-step with natural law it is by far the superior system.

Originally posted by Tiger5
First-hand expereince is better than second hand assumption. Most of the unemployed need to work as welfare receipt is dehumanising, humiliating and pandering to the work stereotypes of class/race hatred.

Besides who would not want money in a capitalist society????

Do you believe the myth of welfare recipients being scroungers or workshy?

T

Social programs for the weak and sick are not communism. You are confusing the two.

Since you assumed that I have no first hand experience ....My mother was 19 with 2 with kids in the 70's living in an apartment bldg that had a shared bathroom; and we were on welfare. Do you have that perspective? She was a hard working, dedicated, and loving mother without and ounce of laziness in her. She busted her butt to get off of it as soon as we could. After getting off of welfare all we could afford was a drug infested prostitute infested loser infested trailer park next to an interstate truck stop and thats where I grew up. Dont tell me what poverty is and how to pull yourself out of it. I was there for the first half of my life. People like you gotta go the damn well of racism ever time because you think it makes your case more solid. BS.

I do believe that there are hangers on to the system and make it their career. I'v seen them first hand. I grew up with them around me. Those are the ones that should be scraped off.


[edit on 21-2-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by A-E-I-Owned-You

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

Originally posted by A-E-I-Owned-You
Communism is no more or less flawed than any other form of government. Humans love to police each other but hate to be policed. Greed is also another destroyer of anything nice humans could ever have. You, me, everyone you have ever met. We are all the reasons why humans cannot have nice things.

These are facts.

Speak for yourself. I have very nice things. Very nice things I earned.

ohhhhh material possessions! I am jealous.

Go live in a third world country where they have no material possessions and experience first hand communism. Should be enlightening and fun for the anti capitalist crowd.

reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf


"Social programs for the weak and sick are not communism. You are confusing the two." No I am not because I have never written such a thing.

"Since you assumed that I have no first hand experience ...." Well for someone that has first hand experience you have made a complete hash of interpreting your expereince or even stating your point in a reasonable fashion. It was your blanket statements that led to my responses. Now go back and read your previous posts with an open mind please.


"My mother was 19 with 2 with kids in the 70's living in an apartment bldg that had a shared bathroom; and we were on welfare. Do you have that perspective? She was a hard working, dedicated, and loving mother without and ounce of laziness in her. She busted her butt to get off of it as soon as we could. After getting off of welfare all we could afford was a drug infested prostitute infested loser infested trailer park next to an interstate truck stop and thats where I grew up. "

I assume that this is true. I am not being rude but this is cyberspace and I could even be a 4ft grey. Do you get my point?

So assuming that you are being truthful why are you tarring all welfare recipients with the same brush in your previous posts (which you seriously need to re-read)??

"Don’t tell me what poverty is and how to pull yourself out of it. I was there for the first half of my life."

"People like you gotta go the damn well of racism ever time because you think it makes your case more solid. BS."

Well racism exists. I wondered if you were a racist so I thought I would tease you out a bit just to find out what you thought. I don’t need to know where you stand but will defend your right to have an opinion. Quite often welfare becomes a code word for Non-white.

Have you ever experienced racism? If you have did it make you feel wonderful??

“I do believe that there are hangers on to the system and make it their career. I'v seen them first hand. I grew up with them around me. Those are the ones that should be scraped off.” Well here is something that we both agree on?? Are these people a majority or a minority". Judging from your blanket comment what i am left to assume? One of the things that I admire about the communist writers is that everyone has to work. Do you know how many tax dollars are lost by unemployment

As a matter of fact we have a lot in common it terms of our social origins. I have more in common with you than say George Bush jnr.

The importance of the working class is central to the writing of Marx.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

No I am not because I have never written such a thing.

See the title of the thread. You kinda should have an opinion one way or another.

Well for someone that has first hand experience you have made a complete hash of interpreting your expereince or even stating your point in a reasonable fashion.

I stated it in a reasonable fashion. I made my point very effectively and just because you say I didn't doesn't mean its true. Fact of the matter is I completely and totally rebuffed you and you're trying to save face by claiming what I said doesn't make sense. If you truthfully cant understand what wrote then I'm unsure if I should keep typing. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and continue.

I assume that this is true. I am not being rude but this is cyberspace and I could even be a 4ft grey. Do you get my point?

I'll assume the same on your part. For all I know you're some teenage kid from Omaha.

So assuming that you are being truthful why are you tarring all welfare recipients with the same brush in your previous posts (which you seriously need to re-read)??

Whats this re-read stuff? Let me quote myself..

"I do believe that there are hangers on to the system and make it their career"

Did I say they ALL were? Did I say my mother was? You're just plain wrong here.

Well racism exists. I wondered if you were a racist so I thought I would tease you out a bit just to find out what you thought. I don’t need to know where you stand but will defend your right to have an opinion. Quite often welfare becomes a code word for Non-white.

Whatever, it has no place in this discussion. You only brought it up because you though it would give you an edge in the discussion.

Well here is something that we both agree on?? Are these people a majority or a minority". Judging from your blanket comment what I am left to assume? One of the things that I admire about the communist writers is that everyone has to work. Do you know how many tax dollars are lost by unemployment

Still race baiting. And it wasn't a blanket statement. How can what I sad be interpreted as a blanket statement?

Everyone has to work in a capitalist system too. How do you not understand that when you work with welfare recipients?

As much as you know about communist writers I seriously doubt you know anything about Adam Smith. They are wrong and he is right

As a matter of fact we have a lot in common it terms of our social origins. I have more in common with you than say George Bush jnr.

I dont even know how to react to that. Is this more baiting?

The importance of the working class is central to the writing of Marx.

Yeah and if you're a hanger on in a communist system you're dead...especially if you're a Jew. You try to bait me into a race discussion and try to unsuccessfully paint me as racist but you like the racist Marxist writings...how hypocritical.. Marx Sucks.


[edit on 21-2-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by harlinskee
it all comes down to whether or not you believe the darwinian theory of evolution or not
marx's ideology was based on it

Exactly what I think. He used new scientific info to bamboozel the masses.
The terrorists ran with it!

reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf


You cannot assumer any motive other than what has been stated. by me I have moved on from the race comment as I can see where you are coming from. I repeat that we actually have a lot in common as we both grew up to claw our way out of the poverty. I do not mean any insult but sheesh we are BOTH from working class origins.

I never held any hope of winning an argue that is based on belief as opposed to fact and logic.

The hangers on in welfARE THAT WE both DISLIKE would be put to work or left to starve according to Marxist writing.

I have read Adam Smith and Marx and have pointed this out several times.

Here is another fact.

Capitalism needs a reserve pool of unemployed.

Marx also predicted the boom and bust nature of our economy.

If capitalism is so wonderful how come there are so many conspiracies developed, aired and maintained by Americans on this site. Do Americans really trust their own government??

I certainly do not trust mine. Leave the Communists out of the mix for a moment and look at your own government.

I knock any government that is not 100% for the people.

T

PS you may like to read a book by Barbara Ehrenreich called bait and Switch. The tagline is "(the futile Pursuit of the American dream). The book was reviewed in the New York times Book review.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

If capitalism is so wonderful how come there are so many conspiracies developed, aired and maintained by Americans on this site. Do Americans really trust their own government??

I think all governments need to be handled with a healthy level of mistrust. Ours is not immune.

PS you may like to read a book by Barbara Ehrenreich called bait and Switch. The tagline is "(the futile Pursuit of the American dream). The book was reviewed in the New York times Book review.

If time permits. Please indulge me and take the time to read " Last Exit To Utopia" By Jean-Francois Revel. I have no idea where it placed on the NY times best sellers list but truth be told I seldom if ever use it as a resource for my studies...Its the NY Times.

And trust me, I believe that the American dream is alive and well.



[edit on 21-2-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

"If time permits. Please indulge me and take the time to read " Last Exit To Utopia" By Jean-Francois Revel. I have no idea where it placed on the NY times best sellers list but truth be told I seldom if ever use it as a resource for my studies...Its the NY Times.

And trust me, I believe that the American dream is alive and well."

This sounds like the book that someone referred me to last year at a party. Thanks I will certainly get it as I was around and observing the collapse of the radical left in Europe. Sadly behind the rhetoric and the "Do as I say not do as I do" BS many of these people sounded like the greedy capitalists.

I thought that the answer to the left would be to have socialism under the Dalai Lama. However absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I am still not a great fan of capitalism. The worst government is totalitarian be it right or left. Red baiting is just a way of tricking the masses into be satisfied with the current state of affairs.


T

reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf


lol are you seriosuly trying to deny that marx did not base his ideology on darwin's theory of evolution

darwin took the concept of evolution and turned it upside down, ommitting any presence of God and anything that implied that species within nature were created by him with a specific purpose. some people had accepted the theory of evolution before him, but left a role within it to be played by god. Darwin dismissed any presence of god within human creation and development, by basing his theory on science purely.

marx and engels did a similar thing in relation to social sciences; although people before them had acknowledged the existence of previous class struggle, but the concept of materialism backed up by science was unprecedented, and they looked to darwin to provide this evidence.

On 16th January, 1861, Marx wrote to Lassalle: "Darwin’s book is very important and serves me as a natural scientific basis for the class struggle in history. One has to put up with the crude English method of development, of course. Despite all deficiencies, not only is the death-blow dealt here for the first time to ‘teleology’ in the natural sciences but its rational meaning is empirically explained."

source
marx & engels simply took darmwin's law of evolution on plants and animals and applied it to the social context aka. the dialetic.

so like i mentioned beforehand, your view on communism/ marxism would essentially be based on whether or not you approve of darwin's theory of evolution, since it is at it's core.

Originally posted by harlinskee
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

lol are you seriosuly trying to deny that marx did not base his ideology on darwin's theory of evolution

Look, you just wasted all that time posting this. Let me quote myself...

"So explain why then capitalism more closely matches the Darwinian theory of survival of the fittest than does communism. Communism in my opinion is mostly against natural law.

Since capitalism is in lock-step with natural law it is by far the superior system."

I said more closely matches.... what exactly does that imply? It certainly does not imply what you said.

darwin took the concept of evolution and turned it upside down, ommitting any presence of God and anything that implied that species within nature were created by him with a specific purpose. some people had accepted the theory of evolution before him, but left a role within it to be played by god. Darwin dismissed any presence of god within human creation and development, by basing his theory on science purely.

marx and engels did a similar thing in relation to social sciences; although people before them had acknowledged the existence of previous class struggle, but the concept of materialism backed up by science was unprecedented, and they looked to darwin to provide this evidence.

On 16th January, 1861, Marx wrote to Lassalle: "Darwin’s book is very important and serves me as a natural scientific basis for the class struggle in history. One has to put up with the crude English method of development, of course. Despite all deficiencies, not only is the death-blow dealt here for the first time to ‘teleology’ in the natural sciences but its rational meaning is empirically explained."

source
marx & engels simply took darmwin's law of evolution on plants and animals and applied it to the social context aka. the dialetic.

so like i mentioned beforehand, your view on communism/ marxism would essentially be based on whether or not you approve of darwin's theory of evolution, since it is at it's core.

This is all fine and dandy but like I said earlier. Capitalism is the ultimate in natural law. It is survival if the fittest in the lassies fair economical arena. You cant get more natural law or Darwinian than that. I'm sorry bud but you just cant argue with that. Marx/Engel Felt that they could introduce a little social engineering to that. Dumb, misguided, and childishly Utopian and that is what at its true core.....

It never ceased to amaze me how many times this virus can be proven as a steaming pile of totalitarianism.. and fools still fall for it..


Communism....there are some lies that lodge so deep in the hopes of man that they can never be killed no matter ho many are executed to make it true.




[edit on 21-2-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf


what so you're then coming to the conclusion that capitalism is the "superior" system because it "more closely matches the darwinian theory of evolution"?
if so, im sorry to say that thats an absolutely preposterous claim.
what i was saying was not a defense of communism, i was just pointing out that what you think of it should be relative to your opinion on darwin's theory, and when it comes to my personal opinion, i dont find that it is a credible one. theres infinite amounts of evidence that go to challenge it, im sure there are threads that deal with that subject so i will therefore not dwell further on it.
at the end of the day i believe neither to be "superior" or "better".
communism on one hand is the very epitomy of what the élite want to impose on us and capitalism is based on profiteering and favours the rich, it is none the more "superior" or "better" unless you happen to be part of the minority who benefits from third world exploitation.
lol this is what it is at the end of the day:

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

Communism....there are some lies that lodge so deep in the hopes of man that they can never be killed no matter ho many are executed to make it true.




[edit on 21-2-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

spending too much time looking at demotivational posters vanderleun

Originally posted by harlinskee
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

what so you're then coming to the conclusion that capitalism is the "superior" system because it "more closely matches the darwinian theory of evolution"?

Not entirely no. You just got got hung up in that. I'm also saying that governments that employ it fail because it turns on its own citizenry.

at the end of the day i believe neither to be "superior" or "better".

Thats fine. Just remember that those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.

Those with their head in the sand will get their butts kicked.

Look at the present socialist and communist states and the wretched condition they're in. They are on the fast road to road following in Greece's footsteps. Its not just me saying it. do some homework.

communism on one hand is the very epitomy of what the élite want to impose on us and capitalism is based on profiteering and favours the rich

More power to them. The rich are the captains of industry. they are the ones that create and invest in new businesses. The drive to make a profit is good. Everyone should have it.

it is none the more "superior" or "better" unless you happen to be part of the minority who benefits from third world exploitation.

Go ahead and ask the people in the third world ho much their lives improved after they were given a job. This is a misnomer that gets propagated. A majority of people in these 3rd world countries are grateful to have their standard of living elevated by having employment and dont feel exploited.


[edit on 21-2-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

"communism on one hand is the very epitomy of what the élite want to impose on us and capitalism is based on profiteering and favours the rich, it is none the more "superior" or "better" unless you happen to be part of the minority who benefits from third world"

But aren't the rich also the elite?

Do youmean communism or totalitarianism?

T