Communism, there is no worse destiny for mankind.

Reply to post by Phlynx

There's two types of Communism, the one that is forced upon the people, and the one that is chosen by the people.

I like this. For the latter kind to work there must be unanimous acceptance, right? Good luck with that.

There hasnt ever been a unanimous body. Even if there is one detractor or dissenter it isnt "chosen by the people" because it will have to be forced upon at least one person.

Or, we could just send the detractors off to Siberia and forget about them.


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... Communism is not bad by itself , Stalin and his boys made the way people see communism today ...

but I most agree that the 20th century communism was big mistake but so is capitalism and biggest mistake was fascism

If there would be communism with total equality , solidarity , media liberty and all that # that would be the perfect system

Glad to see so many people are aware of the difference between Communism and Stalinism / Dictatorship. Obviously I don't mean the OP.



[edit on 19-12-2009 by rizla]

Originally posted by PunksNotDead
... Communism is not bad by itself , Stalin and his boys made the way people see communism today ...

but I most agree that the 20th century communism was big mistake but so is capitalism and biggest mistake was fascism

If there would be communism with total equality , solidarity , media liberty and all that # that would be the perfect system

It has been tried over and over again and the results have always been the same, horrific. Under communism everyone must comply with it or be killed or imprisoned. Many people don't want to live under communism, what would you do with them? And who would make that call? A bunch of appointed leaders that claim to have the cooperative’s best interest in mind.

Under capitalism, you work as much or as little as you want, under communism the "leaders" decide what you will do and for how long you will do it, usually your whole life.

Originally posted by gdeed

There is only one kind of communism and it is hateful, vengeful, ugly, greedy and once your in it you never can leave unless they kill you.

this can also be a definition of 'democracy' based on capitalism...

Originally posted by rizla
Glad to see so many people are aware of the difference between Communism and Stalinism / Dictatorship. Obviously I don't mean the OP.

There is no difference. The communism going on today is just as horrendous as when Stalin did it. Most atrocities don't come to light until the country falls and then people see what communism is all about. Those like you that are selling communism know and hope to stop these kinds of threads.

www.youtube.com...

I think the CONCEPT of communism is great..I believe it gets its bad name because every major country that has been involved with communism misses the point, and grabs power at the "top". I think there is a fine difference between a communist society and a communist dictatorship.

The only reason either exist as they do is because some jerk wanted a scam to funnel what belongs to others into his own pockets. Whether it's communism or capitalism the money keeps flowing up.

I know, there are all these dreams and delusions of the great communist oligarchs living in rags while they provide for the peasant but when the hell has that ever happened?

Ideally people would be able to run themselves as they wish. You want to live in some commune then go ahead. Combine your resources, stake your claim and live as you wish. There should be no external entity (read federal government) there to regulate and tax you for your choice.

Same for the free market folks.

As it is when you're bitching and moaning about a country going one way or the other all your doing is arguing over how best to hand over what's yours, either property or liberty, to somebody else.

Originally posted by donhuangenaro

Originally posted by gdeed

There is only one kind of communism and it is hateful, vengeful, ugly, greedy and once your in it you never can leave unless they kill you.

this can also be a definition of 'democracy' based on capitalism...

No its not. Communism is hate of others, depravity, greed in it's purest and vilest form sugar coated for easy consumption. Millions of people have fallen for Communism in the past and many more are falling for it now.

Originally posted by WhiteOneActual
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

And then they have enough THC in their system to kill an ox.

That's impossible.

And OP, I appreciate that you feel capitalism is good and great, but you fail to grasp one thing: resources on Earth are finite. This means that eventually, since everybody in capitalism tries to accumulate as much of everything of value as they can, as the population grows, there will be less resources to go around, but everybody will keep on keeping on as they are now.

What this will ultimately produce is a state of abject poverty PRECISELY like the one you seem to think all Communist societies are doomed to live in. Unless, of course, you are fortunate enough to have been born into a family that accumulated a disproportionate amount of resources while there were still resources to procure. It will be a caste system.

That's the problem with loudmouths trumpeting the virtue of an economic system based on accumulation. They are unable to take the long view of things.

There is not enough. There are too many of us. We either need to spread to other planets to maintain capitalism long term, or we are morally obligated, in my opinion, to switch to a system that allows us to ensure that people aren't suffering needlessly while other people, who are no different aside from having been born into resources, have a standard of living higher than what others can even potentially attain.

Or there will be revolt, anarchy, and the twilight of civilization.

Of course, guy like you, you probably feel like I'm being ridiculous, taking that long a view. But I think it's ridiculous to not do so.

To the OP;
"Pure Communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life. In modern usage, communism is often used to refer to Bolshevism or Marxism-Leninism and the policies of the various communist states which had government ownership of all the means of production and centrally planned economies. Communist regimes have historically been authoritarian, repressive, and coercive governments concerned primarily with preserving their own power.

There has never been a Pure Communist country in this world.
There will probably never be a purely Communist country.
Nothing "evil" In pure Communism.
Oh I forgot, most people don't want Communism as their egos are too big for that, they want to feel they are "above" someone.

Sure, I agree, China in example has a lot of issues, or at least, had issues.
But are they "Pure" Communists? Nope. They aren't.
Leninism isn't and will never be Communism.
Stalinism isn't and will never be Communism.
And Maoism, is NOT and will NEVER be Communism.
Well, not Pure Communism.

Originally posted by '___'eviant

There is not enough. There are too many of us. We either need to spread to other planets to maintain capitalism long term, or we are morally obligated, in my opinion, to switch to a system that allows us to ensure that people aren't suffering needlessly while other people, who are no different aside from having been born into resources, have a standard of living higher than what others can even potentially attain.

Capitalist countries grow more food per acreage than wasteful unproductive communist countries. That's why communist countries are living in poverty. China is the exception because it has found the golden goose of Capitalism.

Communist countries have no incentive to be productive or to allocate its resource wisely. Communism has never done anything right, unless they are like China and discover the miracle of Capitalism.

Well, I don't think any of us could make a real judgement about communism until we live with it. From my understanding it's a good system on paper, but humans are humans. People are greedy and people can't simply live for a LARGE collective. Sure we can live for small communities or communes but living for the "motherland" quickly becomes brainwashing and people are ultimately opposed to that.

I'm no communist scholar but I have read a bit on it. The problem with what happened in the soviet union was totalitarianism. You will always have leaders, in almost any real system; people will rise to the top. When those people have all the power they inevitably try to become God. You have to have infalibility.

Originally posted by Klavier


There has never been a Pure Communist country in this world.
There will probably never be a purely Communist country.
Nothing "evil" In pure Communism.
Oh I forgot, most people don't want Communism as their egos are too big for that, they want to feel they are "above" someone.

Communist tend to get a big head when given power to make decisions over the sheeple placed under their care. No matter how well meaning communism may start out it always ends with tyranny over the masses. Communism really does suck and is nothing like the fairytales portrayed in Hollywood.

Communism is horrible and it's sad to see people trying to defend a system that's anti liberty and anti freedeom.

The Founders of this country recognized the true state of man and this is what has made America great. People have different desires and dreams and no man or government should try to control those desires and dreams. This is liberty and the government should be there to protect the God Given rights of the individual to live by the dictates of his/her own conscious.

Communism is exactly the opposite. They want your dreams and desires to be in line with the state. In order to accomplish this, you will have a dictator like Stalin. This is because people are not free under Communism to live by the dictates of their own conscious.

I was watching boxing the other night and all of these Cuban fighters were telling their story.

They risked their lives to get here because in Cuba they didn't have the freedom to live by the dictates of their conscious. They had to fight for the state. They had to live in a baracks style apartment. One guy decided to leave because the state took his car away from him because they feared he would try to escape to America.

This is not liberty. This is not freedom. This is tyranny.

It has nothing to do with the spreading of resources.

These dictators get billions of dollars that never reach the people.

Arafat got over 55 billion dollars and died a billionaire. His wife was taking shopping trips in France while the people lived like it's 2,000 B.C.

Mugabe and his cronies live good lives while the life expectancy in Zimbabwe is 37 years of age.

It makes me sick when I see confused individuals blaming freedom and liberty for the ills of the world and they ignore the fact that these people get billions of dollars in AID that never reach the people.

Americans make money and they give money because they live in freedom and liberty. If they have an idea they can pursue it.

Under communism even your ideas belong to the state.

Originally posted by gdeed

Originally posted by donhuangenaro

Originally posted by gdeed

There is only one kind of communism and it is hateful, vengeful, ugly, greedy and once your in it you never can leave unless they kill you.

this can also be a definition of 'democracy' based on capitalism...

No its not. Communism is hate of others, depravity, greed in it's purest and vilest form sugar coated for easy consumption. Millions of people have fallen for Communism in the past and many more are falling for it now.

but in the same time your all loving, divine capitalistic democracy is bailed out by the state...

something is fishy here, smells like communism



next thing you will do is spread your love with bombs, as you always do to temporarily save your system when it is falling apart...



[edit on 19-12-2009 by donhuangenaro]

Originally posted by gdeed
... tend to get a big head when given power to make decisions over the sheeple placed under their care. No matter how well meaning communism may start out it always ends with tyranny over the masses.

you just described exactly what is happening in US...

like someone in this thread said: communism as a stateless society without classes that evenly share wealth is a good idea, but the people are evil and abuse power

the same goes with 'free democracy' or any other social system

spewing hate without showing any knowledge is not making you look smart, just the opposite...

Originally posted by gdeed
The world is repeating the huge mestakes it made during the early part of the 20th century by going left. It seems humans never learn.

Yep, considering how well things have turned out by going right, HOW DARE the idiots consider doing anything else.

Even the bankers are going left ... look how eagerly they turned to socialism when capitalism took all their profits and left them bankrupt... the poor things

I tell you what humans never learn ... that whether your country/government is left, right, or centre of the political spectrum, it is the little fella that always gets screwed.

Communism will never work because of human nature.

People have different dreams and desires. People also have the desire to control the souls of men and women and communism is the perfect vehicle to do this.

With freedom and liberty you will have disparity. Some people will be rich, poor, middle class.

This is because people will pursue different dreams and goals and in a free country you also have a right to be lazy.

I remember years ago I wanted to be a loan officer but I procrastinated and didn't study so I failed the test. I then didn't show up for my retesting.

That wasn't the fault of greedy rich people, that was my fault. I thank God that I learned my lesson and now I have a thriving business.

The point is, human nature does not walk in lock step.

Communism is anti freedom and anti liberty and perfect for a dictator.

reply to post by donhuangenaro



IS ANYONE here saying that capitalism is the best government system ever?
No, and we have laws that ARE SUPPOSED to keep monopolies from taking control, protect the environment, have a transparent OPEN government, allow for small businesses to compete and ensure individual citizen's rights! Yet, are they being UPHELD? NO!
The Illluminati, inbred tyrants have ALWAYS used ANY system to keep their money and control!

en.wikipedia.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> en.wikipedia.org...
was an Illuminati offshoot; (this is a VERY good read.)
www.thefreelibrary.com...:+the+genuine+historical+evidence+on+the...-a0202253133" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">
www.thefreelibrary.com...:+the+genuine+historical+evidence+on+the...-a0202253133

By 1815, Weishaupt's ambassadors had begun to extend their influence into many parts of the world beyond Bavaria and France. Among the personages and organizations responsible for extending the Illuminati's infiltration and power throughout Europe were Filippo Michele Buonarroti and his Sublimes Maitres Parfaits (Sublime Perfect Masters), and Louis Auguste Blanqui and the Societe des Saisons (Society of the Seasons). Those two branches of the Illuminati formed the source of the League of the Just, which commissioned Karl Marx to write the Communist Manifesto in 1848. Following publication of the Manifesto, the League of the Just changed its name to the Communist League. The Illuminists provided the unseen hand behind the staged communist revolts of 1848, which convulsed France, Austria-Hungary, and Russia. This inaugurated the era of communist subversion, infiltration, and control of governments across the globe--an era which has not ended, contrary to "polite" opinion.

As for Marxism meaning TOTAL FREEDOM of The Peoples;
Which communist system doesn't need a implementation program by people in authority (ie government)?
Marx said himself;

“Now, as for myself, I do not claim to have discovered either the existence of classes in modern society or the struggle between them. Long before me, bourgeois historians had described the historical development of this struggle between the classes, as had bourgeois economists their economic anatomy. My own contribution was (1) to show that the existence of classes is merely bound up with certain historical phases in the development of production; (2) that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat; [and] (3) that this dictatorship, itself, constitutes no more than a transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society”.

Why can't i embed links?



[edit on 19-12-2009 by Clearskies]